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Sorcerous Workings: Where We Make Judgments

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  • Hm, that does lead to a more general question of mine: if a creation/working is self perpetuating/growing with input, does that increase it's circle?
    For an example, an early working I had an NPC do that I at the time thought was celestial level was create a large creature that, when fed stone or jade, produce animated statues. Because it has no cap, is this more a Solar range in people's opinion, or is the need for more materials make it Celestial?
    Or, in my current game, I have a character who's working was to create a species of semi-material jellyfish spies (They're immaterial, floating jellyfish covered in eyes). Is there a distinction in working level if:
    1-the species is self reproducing and starts with an intimacy towards the maker
    2-the species isn't self reproducing, but rather the working creates the device that makes more of them (similair to my stone monster above. Say, a tree that when watered certain chemcials, makes the spy fish. The species of jellyfish thus require constant effort by the sorcerer after the working to reproduce)


    I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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    • Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
      Hm, that does lead to a more general question of mine: if a creation/working is self perpetuating/growing with input, does that increase it's circle?
      How much it increases would vary, but in general, yes, I would say an automatically-growing effect will be a higher ambition than one that isn't. How much it increases depends on the nature of the working, and its general ability to expand.

      Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
      For an example, an early working I had an NPC do that I at the time thought was celestial level was create a large creature that, when fed stone or jade, produce animated statues. Because it has no cap, is this more a Solar range in people's opinion, or is the need for more materials make it Celestial?
      This is going to depend on the base power of the statues produced, I think. If they're basically "mundane creature" level, with maybe one supernatural power, then they're base Celestial 1, and I'd peg the multiplication aspect as bumping it up to Celestial 3. If, on the other hand, the statues are significantly stronger than that, or if the "reproduction" rate is seriously fast (like, faster than "once a season", then Solar 1 or higher definitely seems more appropriate.

      I wouldn't reduce the ambition level for the materials cost if it's "stone or jade", because stone is much too common to be a significant limitation. If it was "stone, and small quantities of jade", always requiring a magical material, that might pull it down one level. It's never going to be as low as just making a single, once-off statue, though.

      Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
      Or, in my current game, I have a character who's working was to create a species of semi-material jellyfish spies (They're immaterial, floating jellyfish covered in eyes). Is there a distinction in working level if:
      1-the species is self reproducing and starts with an intimacy towards the maker
      2-the species isn't self reproducing, but rather the working creates the device that makes more of them (similair to my stone monster above. Say, a tree that when watered certain chemcials, makes the spy fish. The species of jellyfish thus require constant effort by the sorcerer after the working to reproduce)
      Either way, I'd definitely bump the ambition level up at least one level compared to the level required to make just a single jellyfish spy with an (I assume, positive) intimacy towards you. I'd peg the basic level of that at Celestial 2, and put the self-reproduction with a built-in positive intimacy at Solar 1. Depending on how difficult the machine to produce more jellyfish was to operate, you might convince me to call that version Celestial 3. But I'd be more inclined towards Solar 1 for that too.

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      • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
        Self-repair? Hah! Why a sorcerous working at all? Why not simply use the spell, elemental empowerment of wood?
        Because my Essence 1 Zenith with ~30ish XP doesn't know that spell, and doesn't know anybody who could teach her that spell, and we didn't convert that spell to 3rd Edition yet.

        Bonus: resistance against environmental effects, but not magical ones nor ones that are sent as attacks.
        That's what I thought along the lines of as well, thanks.

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        • Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

          How much it increases would vary, but in general, yes, I would say an automatically-growing effect will be a higher ambition than one that isn't. How much it increases depends on the nature of the working, and its general ability to expand.



          This is going to depend on the base power of the statues produced, I think. If they're basically "mundane creature" level, with maybe one supernatural power, then they're base Celestial 1, and I'd peg the multiplication aspect as bumping it up to Celestial 3. If, on the other hand, the statues are significantly stronger than that, or if the "reproduction" rate is seriously fast (like, faster than "once a season", then Solar 1 or higher definitely seems more appropriate.

          I wouldn't reduce the ambition level for the materials cost if it's "stone or jade", because stone is much too common to be a significant limitation. If it was "stone, and small quantities of jade", always requiring a magical material, that might pull it down one level. It's never going to be as low as just making a single, once-off statue, though.
          Eh, for completion sake: The statues were the automata one in the core if given stone. If given jade it made better automata (I think they had a few charms? and raised harndess? It's been about a year since that creature was around.). I pegged it as Celestial because making an automata with materials supplied seemd second circle range of abillities.


          Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
          Either way, I'd definitely bump the ambition level up at least one level compared to the level required to make just a single jellyfish spy with an (I assume, positive) intimacy towards you. I'd peg the basic level of that at Celestial 2, and put the self-reproduction with a built-in positive intimacy at Solar 1. Depending on how difficult the machine to produce more jellyfish was to operate, you might convince me to call that version Celestial 3. But I'd be more inclined towards Solar 1 for that too.
          Intreasting. I agree that making one jellyfish<making many jellyfish, but I'd have lowered it to Celestial. It helps that the jellyfish spy for me is Celestial 1--it's a jellyfish that can float and see things(which is terrestrial mutations) but is permanently immaterial and can communciate (which makes it 1 or 2 depending on power value).
          Last edited by Epee102; 07-04-2018, 01:34 PM. Reason: Clarification


          I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
            Eh, for completion sake: The statues were the automata one in the core if given stone. If given jade it made better automata (I think they had a few charms? and raised harndess? It's been about a year since that creature was around.).
            I think the automata from the Core book would rate Celestial 1 to create individually, so I'd stick with my above estimates.

            Originally posted by Epee102
            Intreasting. I agree that making one jellyfish<making many jellyfish, but I'd have lowered it to Celestial. It helps that the jellyfish spy for me is Celestial 1--it's a jellyfish that can float and see things(which is terrestrial mutations) but is permanently immaterial and can communciate (which makes it 1 or 2 depending on power value).
            It's the immateriality that's kicking it up to Celestial 2 for me - to me, that's a very good example of a supernatural power, which requires Celestial 2 to give out.

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            • Question. Grant someone the thaumaturgy merit. Celestial or terrestrial working?

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              • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                Question. Grant someone the thaumaturgy merit. Celestial or terrestrial working?
                Granting supernatural powers, minimum Celestial 2.

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                • Question. I've been reading guyver.

                  A suit that can bind to the person and give him mild, first circle demon level powers. Heck, Peronnelle do that already.

                  So?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                    Question. I've been reading guyver.

                    A suit that can bind to the person and give him mild, first circle demon level powers. Heck, Peronnelle do that already.

                    So?

                    Terrestrial 3/Celestial 1. Vance said making a first circle was 1-2, I've been house ruling it as T. 3

                    EDIT: With the Caveat that your making the suit, and the symbiot can leave/die etc.


                    I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
                      I've been house ruling it as T. 3
                      Huh. Me too.

                      *high fives*

                      Anyway, thanks.

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                      • I got an idea.

                        A doorframe with water flowing from the upper section to the lower section, forming a sheet of water flowing downwards. The water disappears when it hits the ground.

                        Whoever passes through this doorway, is 'cleansed' of all forms of servitude, unnatural mental influence, emotional, and illusionary effects.

                        What level?

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                        • Oh my.. All forms of servitude? Like, including the binding of demons? All emotional influences including the ones Black Claw Stylists have to internalize? And it's not a one-time thing, but a permanent un-mindfucking feature anyone can walk through? I'm gonna peg that at Solar Circle.

                          If it only undoes effects that are normally possible to undo, I might be talked down to the higher end of Celestial. Maybe.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Amayad View Post
                            Oh my.. All forms of servitude? Like, including the binding of demons? All emotional influences including the ones Black Claw Stylists have to internalize? And it's not a one-time thing, but a permanent un-mindfucking feature anyone can walk through? I'm gonna peg that at Solar Circle.

                            If it only undoes effects that are normally possible to undo, I might be talked down to the higher end of Celestial. Maybe.
                            Only for humans.

                            Question. What are the effects that are impossible to undo?

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                            • Oh, only for mortals? That'd bump it down a fair bit, yeah.

                              Those were the only two I could think of off the top of my head - there might be a few more somewhere. You can't unbind a bound demon - they develop a magically impervious drive to serve their summoner to the letter and their understanding of the spirit (here's where shenanigans might come in, but even then, only out of ignorance). and you can't make a Black Claw Stylist stop loving their teacher. Black Claw Style is rather fucked up like that.

                              If those things were possible, they'd be Solar workings, 'cause that's where "turn somebody into a completely different sort of being" is. I imagine a demon wouldn't be bound if it weren't a demon anymore, hm? Expect the demon to resist if it realizes what you're doing, though - because it has a Defining Principle to accomplish its mission, which it can't do if you unbind it.

                              You..Actually might be able to un-mindfuck a Black Claw Stylist at Celestial - by erasing their memory of ever having learned the style in the first place, but that's probably not the point here.
                              Last edited by Amayad; 07-13-2018, 10:18 AM.

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                              • Darned black claw stylists. So darned creepy.

                                They remind me of abusive relationships.....

                                Anyway, another idea.

                                In the woods, there is a pool. Formed by a sorcerer seeking for rent. The local lord uses this pool for his troops and knights, when they are injured. The pool's perimeter has a fence upon it, and there is always a guard posted around, to block interlopers and intruders.

                                Terrestrial Circle, ambition 3.

                                The pool grants temporary mutations to anyone who drinks from it. The mutations exist, only for one month before fading away. All mutations are internal, and do not show up.

                                Mutations include:

                                Superior healing - body becomes like an exalt.
                                Accelerated healing - healing rate doubles
                                Limb regeneration - amputated limbs can be repaired, with each amputated limb working like a single -4 health level filled in with missing damage

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