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Sorcerous Workings: Where We Make Judgments

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  • There's always some expensive plant that can only be found in the far off reaches of the elemental poles..

    Or your sorcerers front yard.

    How old is he, anyway?

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    • Absurdly fertile doesn't mean everything will grow here. Some plants and especially rare and magical plants often have a requirement beyond fertile ground. In fact for some magical plants that might kill them! Rare flowers that grow only in death touched soils, mystical trees that feed on wyld energy, fruits picked from the elemental poles. They all likely need something that a simple magically fertile land can't offer. I can see it being a Solar level project if it can nurtish these plants as well, and a high solar level if it can make things "That bloom once a century" make daily crops too.

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      • I just remembered something. Someone once posted a jade millstone that could grind stone into flour. What's the level? Celestial 2?

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        • Terrestrial 3 sounds like it. "Bless a region to enhance its natural properties, causing a field to always deliver a bountiful harvest or a freshwater river to always run clean." To me, a millstone that turns stone into flour is equivalent to a field of, say, wheat always delivering great harvests (grinding stone makes up for the process of making flour), so it's not really higher than T3 imo.

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          • Originally posted by Alistair View Post
            Terrestrial 3 sounds like it. "Bless a region to enhance its natural properties, causing a field to always deliver a bountiful harvest or a freshwater river to always run clean." To me, a millstone that turns stone into flour is equivalent to a field of, say, wheat always delivering great harvests (grinding stone makes up for the process of making flour), so it's not really higher than T3 imo.
            Yeah. But its constant, not set by the seasons or time, and pretty darned reliable. Me, I'll put it as... Celestial 1. Depending on the rate of production. Giant millstone capable of making a literal waterfall of flour? Celestial. Small one that can be moved by hand and probably feeds a village? Terrestrial 3.

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            • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
              Yeah. But its constant, not set by the seasons or time, and pretty darned reliable. Me, I'll put it as... Celestial 1. Depending on the rate of production. Giant millstone capable of making a literal waterfall of flour? Celestial. Small one that can be moved by hand and probably feeds a village? Terrestrial 3.

              Harvests enhanced by Terrestrial Workings don't really need to rely on the seasons (See: that one Working that allows people to gather sunlight for the seasons that lack it), and you still need rock to grind; eventually, you run out of it if you go overboard, unless you have a very gracious Earth DB stunting rock into being. And also, it only ever makes flour, whereas a field can make whatever you sow in it. Terrestrial Workings are things you think a Dragon-Blooded sorcerer should be able to do without an extreme amount of effort, and that's where I'd peg something like a flour-conjuring millstone.

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              • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                I just remembered something. Someone once posted a jade millstone that could grind stone into flour. What's the level? Celestial 2?
                Mercury Ants (as previously discussed IIT) can turn lead into gold - we pegged that as a squarely Terrestrial feat as you can just make Mercury Ants st this level with Summon Elemental. And we pegged classic alchemy as turning one natural substance into another as Terrestrial.

                So... stone into flour isn't that much of a stretch over lead into gold.

                I'd say Terrestrial 3. But you're looking at a high Finesse if you specifically want a millstone that grinds rock into flour.


                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                • The jade millstone sounds more like an artifact than a sorcerous working, but if we're making it a working than I'd say Celestial 1.

                  I don't think a millstone that grinds stone into flour is necessarily more useful than e.g. a field that always grows an excellent crop of wheat, but it's more supernatural than the field -- an outright miracle of transmutation. It seems different to me in pretty much exactly the way that the book describes the difference between Celestial and Terrestrial workings.

                  You might have a point about the mercury ants, though. Are those still around in 3e?

                  Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                  But you're looking at a high Finesse if you specifically want a millstone that grinds rock into flour.
                  You're always looking at a high Finesse if you want a working exactly how you're envisioning it, of course. The question might then be, what's the basic goal of this working? You always get the basic goal even at Finesse 1, after all.

                  If our sorcerer's player proclaims "I want this mill to always be able to produce plenty of flour" as he rolls at Finesse 1, he might have been hoping the new millstone would just multiply the wheat it grinds, or maybe all the nearby fields would grow extra wheat or something. Now the villagers have to keep lugging stones into the mill and everyone is annoyed at him.

                  (Or something like that. It's hard to think of good ways low Finesse might manifest when you've started with a specific idea of how the working should work out.)

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                  • Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
                    I'd say Celestial 1.

                    I don't think a millstone that grinds stone into flour is necessarily more useful than e.g. a field that always grows an excellent crop of wheat, but it's more supernatural than the field -- an outright miracle of transmutation. It seems different to me in pretty much exactly the way that the book describes the difference between Celestial and Terrestrial workings.
                    I think Celesrial 1 is fine. But it's not making magical flour. Nor is it magically making flour from nothing.

                    It's turning one natural substance into another natural (if refined) substance. Transformation of the mundane is squarely Terrestrial in my eyes. This specific exanple is probably the extreme upper boarder for me -- lead and gold are at least chemically similiar.

                    But people IRL make faux food out of mud and sand. Pasaip's Grace existed in 1E as bread baked with sand (it did kill the mortals who tried to eat it). A working to render the inedible edible doesn't seem like it should tax a Terrestrial sorcerer so much as a Celestial 1 working would.

                    Milling flour out of moonlight is certainly not Terrestrial. Rocks? Eh.
                    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 10-18-2019, 06:34 AM.


                    Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                    • Thank you.

                      So I saw something on sufficient velocity. Someone made a pretty cool SORCEROUS initiation based on Dark Souls.

                      If you were to make a SORCEROUS working that initiated people unfailingly into sorcery, would it be celestial 3 or solar 2?

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                      • N/A. “Unfailingly” isn’t something that happens when the material you’re working with is people. Some people will just never be able to sew a dress. Or write a symphony. Or forge a horseshoe. Or walk a tightrope. Or speak in front of crowds. Or escape handcuffs.

                        And those things are all vastly less difficult and inherently transformative as sorcery is.

                        Some people just are not cut out for certain endeavors, and more than a few won’t want to try.

                        Also, not sure why you’re putting “sorcerous” in all-caps.
                        Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 10-19-2019, 03:06 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                          N/A. “Unfailingly” isn’t something that happens when your material is people. Some people will just never learn how to sew a dress. Or write a symphony. Or make a horseshoe. Or walk a tightrope. Or escape handcuffs.

                          And those things are all vastly less difficult and inherently transformative than sorcery is.

                          Also, not sure why the all-caps.
                          Frickin' auto corrupt. But anyway, yes. I'm not too sure about the 'unfailing' part, but well, its a sorcerous initiation that's reasonably reliable, such that people actually search for and use it.

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                          • That’s more reasonable, but I’d still not peg that below Solar 3 and I’d still want it more fleshed out than that.

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                            • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                              That’s more reasonable, but I’d still not peg that below Solar 3 and I’d still want it more fleshed out than that.
                              Give me 10 minutes, and I'll grab it.

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                              • Solar 3.

                                The metaphysical law of Creation states that people can learn sorcery. Subtly changing that law to say people can learn sorcery infalliably, is a Solar 3 feat.


                                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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