Sorcerous Workings: Where We Make Judgments

[Accelerator]

Oh well.

Maybe i should make a shard where Salina's last act was make a working where every mortal in creation got sorcery

[Kelly Pedersen]

You're both assuming that any noticeable number of sorcerors would be willing to perform such a ritual.

Well, yes, I am, given that there exist whole organizations dedicated to creating more sorcerers (the schools like the Heptagram or Valkhawsen). I can't see why such organizations wouldn't want to use a working like this to grant sorcerous potential to worthy candidates. No matter how rare Occult 3 or higher is, it's got to be less rare than the potential for sorcery!

Also, if you do some arithmetic you'll find that 10 threshold successes in 5 rolls with a difficulty above 1 is fairly difficult to get, virtually requiring various means.

Sure, but means aren't that hard to get, at least for the sort of sorcerer likely to do this. An institution like the Heptagram can muster Complementary Skills, Complementary Spells, Cooperation, Sorcerous Infrastructure, and almost certainly a demesne, without particularly straining its resources. Throw in Exotic Components and Extra Time if some Great House is willing to foot the bill to have a scion of theirs made into a sorcerer, and will pay for the weird magical stuff and extra time spent by the sorcerers doing the working, and you've got so many means. Plus, this is all being done by Dragonblooded sorcerers, who (almost certainly) have dice adders and other tricks, and a Terrestrial-level working becomes almost trivial for them.

All of this is why I really don't believe that granting sorcerous potential, if it's possible at all, should be allowed at Terrestrial level.

[Accelerator]

Can you, say, trigger when a sorcerous working takes effect?

I wish to write a shard where Salina took one more step, but i'm not sure on how to start it out.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Can you, say, trigger when a sorcerous working takes effect?

I could see doing a sorcerous working that would have some effect after a certain event. The idea of a sorcerer who lets it be known that a terrible curse lies in wait for anyone who slays them sounds like a triggered working, for example.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that putting a simple trigger ("when x event happens, do y") would be the same circle and ambition as the basic effect it produces, while more complicated triggers ("when x event occurs, do y, unless events a, b, or c have already occured") or trigger delays notably longer than a reasonable mortal lifetime ("A century hence, unleash this effect") would bump up the Ambition by 1 stage, as would having a trigger that's completely under the sorcerer's control ("when I speak the magic word, unleash this effect on the person I speak to").

Your finesse on such workings would generally determine how easy it would be to "fake" the trigger. With Finesse 5, it's basically only going to go off exactly when the sorcerer wants it to, whereas down at Finesse 1, accidentally setting it off is a real issue. ("Your death curse triggered because someone accidentally published your obituary?!")

[Accelerator]

I could see doing a sorcerous working that would have some effect after a certain event. The idea of a sorcerer who lets it be known that a terrible curse lies in wait for anyone who slays them sounds like a triggered working, for example.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that putting a simple trigger ("when x event happens, do y") would be the same circle and ambition as the basic effect it produces, while more complicated triggers ("when x event occurs, do y, unless events a, b, or c have already occured") or trigger delays notably longer than a reasonable mortal lifetime ("A century hence, unleash this effect") would bump up the Ambition by 1 stage, as would having a trigger that's completely under the sorcerer's control ("when I speak the magic word, unleash this effect on the person I speak to").

Your finesse on such workings would generally determine how easy it would be to "fake" the trigger. With Finesse 5, it's basically only going to go off exactly when the sorcerer wants it to, whereas down at Finesse 1, accidentally setting it off is a real issue. ("Your death curse triggered because someone accidentally published your obituary?!")

Damn.

What working would it be, to:

Enable Dragonblooded to initiate into celestial sorcery.

give every mortal sorcerous potential

Make every mortal a sorcerer

[Kelly Pedersen]

What working would it be, to:

Enable Dragonblooded to initiate into celestial sorcery.

I'd call that Solar 1 for a single person. If it was lower than Solar-tier, I imagine a Dragonblood or mortal sorcerer would have done it. Probably Solar 3 to upgrade a Celestial-tier sorcerer to Solar-tier (so Raksi has a hope, but it's very hard, basically).

give every mortal sorcerous potential

Solar 3, if I allowed it all. Salinea's working to give everyone in Creation with pre-existing potential the ability to self-initiate was already presented as pretty much the peak of sorcerous working, so Solar 3. Giving everybody potential is stronger than that, so it should be more difficult. If I allowed it at all, I might actually treat it as a higher-than-Solar tier of working, with the attendant penalties for even Solar-level sorcerers.

Make every mortal a sorcerer

As I already stated in this thread, I wouldn't allow this. Flat out.

[Accelerator]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but what defines sorcerous potential?

[TheCountAlucard]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but what defines sorcerous potential?

There's no detailed explanation for that intangible quality that allows Alice to become a sorcerer where Bob can't, probably because if there was, forumites would try and game the system to break the setting by cranking out a bajillion sorcerers.

Again.

[LadyLens]

Actually, there's nothing to suggest that there is any specific quality needed to initiate into sorcery beyond a great deal of learning and a mind both strong and flexible. It does seem to be difficult, and for most people it's not worth it; things like keeping up the farm or getting the trees chopped tend to take priority over reading ancient, dusty tomes.

[armyofwhispers]

Actually, there's nothing to suggest that there is any specific quality needed to initiate into sorcery beyond a great deal of learning and a mind both strong and flexible. It does seem to be difficult, and for most people it's not worth it; things like keeping up the farm or getting the trees chopped tend to take priority over reading ancient, dusty tomes.

Except, y'know, Ysyr.

If sorcery was something any dedicated mortal could do, then Ysyr's entire caste system would be crap.

[Accelerator]

Except, y'know, Ysyr.

If sorcery was something any dedicated mortal could do, then Ysyr's entire caste system would be crap.

Maybe the mutation is some kind that reduces xp cost and training times? Or some kind of favoured ability

[Kelly Pedersen]

Actually, there's nothing to suggest that there is any specific quality needed to initiate into sorcery beyond a great deal of learning and a mind both strong and flexible.

In the writeup for Ysyr, it specifies that "Essence emanations warped the Ys, twisting their bodies and minds—and, through chance, attuning them to the power of sorcery. But only a handful of Ysyr’s people can master the sorcerous arts." (emphasis mine).

To me, that reads that it takes special conditions to "attune" you to sorcery, and then more work and effort and probably certain talents to actually put that power to use.

Also, Holden has stated, and Robert confirmed, since he became a dev, that sorcery requires a certain "ineffable something" - it's not just hard work and learning. If you don't have the Right Stuff, all your education and dead goats will be in vain. It's just that we pretty much always assume that PCs who choose to learn sorcery do happen to have what it takes.

[Accelerator]

A question on artifacts made by sorcery. Is it possible to put passive effects on it? I.e. no need for attunement or essence.

[Kelly Pedersen]

A question on artifacts made by sorcery. Is it possible to put passive effects on it? I.e. no need for attunement or essence.

We know regular artifacts don't always require attunement or essence commitment, so I don't see why sorcery couldn't produce them as well. In fact, the one artifact we know is produced by sorcery, the Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes, doesn't require attunement, so that's one example. Basically, I'd treat artifacts created by sorcery the same as other artifacts - if I feel they need an attunement cost to be balanced, I'll give them one, otherwise not.

[Accelerator]

We know regular artifacts don't always require attunement or essence commitment, so I don't see why sorcery couldn't produce them as well. In fact, the one artifact we know is produced by sorcery, the Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes, doesn't require attunement, so that's one example. Basically, I'd treat artifacts created by sorcery the same as other artifacts - if I feel they need an attunement cost to be balanced, I'll give them one, otherwise not.

ok! now, second question.

Let's say I wish to make a crown, produced by a sorcerer. Perhaps lunar, perhaps sidereal, perhaps solar.

The Exalted, wishing to help the king of a certain country, produced this crown for him. The crown, when put upon his head, assists him in ruling the country. Basically, it does stuff like speed the wheels/ bureauracy and social excellency/ bureau rectifyin method. Thing is, how much is too much? Its from a terrestrial circle sorcery.