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Sorcerous Workings: Where We Make Judgments

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  • Aiden
    started a topic Sorcerous Workings: Where We Make Judgments

    Sorcerous Workings: Where We Make Judgments

    I figured we could use a thread for people to propose sorcerous working examples that aren't explicitly spelled out in the examples given to us in the corebook, and then have one another judge what Circle and Ambition we believe that working should be. So, I'll get us started with my own proposal!

    Say I wanted to give myself an eternal lifespan with a sorcerous working. What Circle do you believe would be required for that, and at what level of Ambition? Obviously there would be caveats to the lifespan due to the limitations of sorcery, but how do I get there in the first place? Or what if I merely wanted to use it to double my lifespan with a one-time working?

    Assume I'm not a Sidereal; we know it probably won't work there.
    Last edited by Aiden; 10-27-2015, 09:05 PM.

  • Chronos12
    replied
    While I do thank you as well Accelerator for the reply, I do really like your reply Kelly Pederson and will be noting down your suggestion with great gusto!

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  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Chronos12 View Post
    So eventually one of the circle notices and finds out what had happened to the soul in question. So now she and the other members of the circle know that they need to collect her fragmented soul from the wyld pocket, repair it, and place it back into the statue. So how difficult should this be, and what kind of finesse things should happen if it isn't attempted as a finnesse 5 working?
    So, putting the soul back together I would rate as Solar 1 working. Solar is the circle necessary to transform souls, and this seems comparable to the example of "Extract the soul of a willing mortal from his body and transfer it into a new vessel". However, the general rule in Exalted is that you can't unbake the bread, uncrack the egg, or otherwise completely eliminate the consequences of your actions, so no matter what, the girl's going to have some lingering effects from all this.

    As for Finesse, remember that Finesse 5 does not mean "a working with no weirdness". Every working should have some kind of weird, uncanny thing going on. Finesse 5 just means that the player doing the working gets to pick the weirdness. But that should still be the same degree of weirdness as any other working of similar Circle and Ambition. For this one, some possible strangenesses could include:
    • Since the girl had her soul ripped up in the Wyld, putting her back together will necessarily involve getting some Wyld-stuff on it. That means she now counts as a Fair Folk for things that care about it, and the touch of iron now burns her.
    • Putting the pieces of the girl's soul back together is an imperfect process, and now her memories are kinda scrambled - she remembers having her first day of school before learning to walk, she thinks her father is her uncle, that kind of thing. Mostly, this is a derangement of some type, but occasionally, she remembers things that haven't happened yet, effectively flashes of precognition.
    • Her soul is now permanently a bit "unsettled" in her body. Sometimes, while she sleeps, her higher soul drifts out, in which case it's effectively her own ghost. Other times, her lower soul wanders, and then it's a hungry ghost.
    • Along the same lines as the first one, maybe her soul-bits got mixed in with a fae creature, and now she has a permanent "guest" in her mind, one that needs to snack on people's emotions and dreams from time to time.
    • The process of binding her soul bits back together requires a physical focus, a piece of jewelry or something of personal significance to her. It works reasonably well, but if she ever loses that item, her soul might fragment again.
    • The way of binding her soul into her body again involved making her body into a spirit trap, and now, low-level spirits who touch her incautiously could get sucked into her as well. Basically, she's a living yasal crystal, but can't let the spirits out again without some kind of external assistance, leaving her to deal with their incessant whining until she can get them out again.
    Last edited by Kelly Pedersen; 08-03-2020, 12:34 AM.

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  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Accelerator That's not what Finesse is. Finesse represents how much control the player has over how the effects of the working manifest.

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  • Accelerator
    replied
    First of all, the question is this:

    1. Does this count as the little girl being dead?
    2. How badly shredded is this little girl?

    If its all the same, this is either solar or celestial. Normally without the soul shredding I'll just peg the 'turned into a statue' as some kind of flaw that has to be removed by terrestrial mutation workings. But putting a soul back together... Yep, most definitely something on the level of Celestial.

    Finesse 5 working to have her soul put together perfectly intact, and another working to have her get turned back into a normal flesh and blood person. Skimping on the finesse when putting her soul back together should lead to shit like personality changes, lost memories, or outright losses of certain brain functions not too dissimilar to that of traumatic brain injuries. Finesse 3 should have her be slightly 'off'. Like someone who's speech is constantly slurring, appears to have a stroke, or aphasia. Finesse 1 should be someone in a coma.

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  • Chronos12
    replied
    Hello people of the Oynx Path Forums! A Working has come up, and I'd like to hear(Read) from everyone on how difficult the attempt of the working should be.

    Context: Well Long ago, about 4 stories worth long ago (About 5-6 months in game) the circle has made a promise to a night caste solar that they would help restore his daughter to from being transformed into a statue by the fair folk.

    There is only one problem. The circles own night had taken the statue through a wyld area and the statue had the soul ripped out of it and shredded. And then since somehow (It was a series of bad rolls) no one actually noticed that and instead of deadly kung fu happening. The two parties agreed to help each other. (Magic Oaths helping that along)

    So eventually one of the circle notices and finds out what had happened to the soul in question. So now she and the other members of the circle know that they need to collect her fragmented soul from the wyld pocket, repair it, and place it back into the statue. So how difficult should this be, and what kind of finesse things should happen if it isn't attempted as a finnesse 5 working?
    Last edited by Chronos12; 08-02-2020, 10:50 PM.

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  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Epitome View Post
    Your anima gains the properties of a Lunar Tell - it can only be noticed by non-trivial characters who succeed at a roll.

    Nontrivial characters can attempt a difficulty 7 (Perception + Awareness) roll to notice your anima. Characters who’ve previously detected your anima get +3 dice. Magic that enhances attempts to see through disguises applies on this roll. Success lets them notice the anima. On a failure, that character can’t attempt the roll until the Exalt's anima has returned to dim and then becomes active again. If the Exalt makes an overt display of supernatural power, witnesses may roll to detect her anima again with 1-3 bonus dice. The Storyteller should award higher bonuses for more egregious displays, and for onlookers who verify their suspicions with read intentions or profile character actions.

    This only hides your anima, not supernatural displays from Charms such as Blazing Solar Bolt or Eye of the Unconquered Sun.
    I'd allow something like this at Celestial 2 (the "supernatural powers" category, but as JohnDoe says, as written it's pretty setting-breaking. I'd have the full difficulty 7 only apply to glowing anima, and reduce it by 3 for every anima level above that (i.e., 4 at burning, and 1 at bonfire). Also, on the general principle that every working should have some kind of weirdness/interesting narrative complications, here's some suggestions for that:
    • It makes your anima harder to spot by diffusing it, spreading it out across a larger area, meaning that while people have to roll to spot it, they also have the opportunity to make that roll from much further away.
    • Something messes with people's perceptions, preventing them from recognizing your anima as an anima. But this messes with their memories of you as well, a la Sidereals and Arcane Fate. Except that unlike Sidereals, there's no way to get around it with Resplendent Destinies. Building an empire becomes more difficult.
    • The process weakens your anima, meaning it can't be used as effectively for charms that cost anima levels - each such level now reduces your anima by two levels. You can only fuel charms that cost 2a or 3a by spending the requisite peripheral motes to flare your anima enough as part of the charm cost (so if you were at burning anima, fueling a 2a cost would cost 10 extra motes, while if you were at bonfire, it would only cost 5m).
    • Similar to the above, except it affects anima abilities - your anima powers that would normally get a discount at bonfire no longer do so.

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  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Epitome View Post
    Your anima gains the properties of a Lunar Tell - it can only be noticed by non-trivial characters who succeed at a roll.

    Nontrivial characters can attempt a difficulty 7 (Perception + Awareness) roll to notice your anima. Characters who’ve previously detected your anima get +3 dice. Magic that enhances attempts to see through disguises applies on this roll. Success lets them notice the anima. On a failure, that character can’t attempt the roll until the Exalt's anima has returned to dim and then becomes active again. If the Exalt makes an overt display of supernatural power, witnesses may roll to detect her anima again with 1-3 bonus dice. The Storyteller should award higher bonuses for more egregious displays, and for onlookers who verify their suspicions with read intentions or profile character actions.

    This only hides your anima, not supernatural displays from Charms such as Blazing Solar Bolt or Eye of the Unconquered Sun.
    N/A.

    Absolutely setting breaking.

    Note the Tell explicity becomes Obvious at Glowing Anima.


    [Edit]

    Kelly's ideas below are much better.
    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 05-01-2020, 03:32 PM.

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  • Epitome
    replied
    Your anima gains the properties of a Lunar Tell - it can only be noticed by non-trivial characters who succeed at a roll.

    Nontrivial characters can attempt a difficulty 7 (Perception + Awareness) roll to notice your anima. Characters who’ve previously detected your anima get +3 dice. Magic that enhances attempts to see through disguises applies on this roll. Success lets them notice the anima. On a failure, that character can’t attempt the roll until the Exalt's anima has returned to dim and then becomes active again. If the Exalt makes an overt display of supernatural power, witnesses may roll to detect her anima again with 1-3 bonus dice. The Storyteller should award higher bonuses for more egregious displays, and for onlookers who verify their suspicions with read intentions or profile character actions.

    This only hides your anima, not supernatural displays from Charms such as Blazing Solar Bolt or Eye of the Unconquered Sun.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Plastic Doll View Post
    That's why I was aiming for celestial 2 at the beginning. The character would have no interest in changing the nature or powers of the Demon, but would want to make it unrecognizable for what it really is. Like you said a dainty patrician but one that'll still snarls and eat cats and humans. Maybe taking inspiration from the lunar's charm Moon's Hidden Face where the claws would be changed into claw bracers, the bony spikes becoming part of a cloak...
    Agreed.

    Originally posted by Plastic Doll View Post
    That seems kind of expensive for a first circle demon when Celestial 3 could allow me to create a creature comparable to a 2nd circle out of whole cloth.
    It's not a balance concern, it's a nature of magic thing.

    Yes, it is easier to create a new being whole cloth than it is to completely rewrite the nature of a being.

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  • Plastic Doll
    replied
    That's why I was aiming for celestial 2 at the beginning. The character would have no interest in changing the nature or powers of the Demon, but would want to make it unrecognizable for what it really is. Like you said a dainty patrician but one that'll still snarl and eat cats and humans. Maybe taking inspiration from the lunars' charm Moon's Hidden Face where the claws would be changed into claw bracers, the bony spikes becoming part of a cloak...

    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
    Turning your blood apes into 5', 98lb, mild mannered, cat lovers who can pass for dainty patrician noblemen is not a Terrestrial working. That's Celestial 3/Solar 1 cosmic ****ery.
    That seems kind of expensive for a first circle demon when Celestial 3 could allow me to create a creature comparable to a 2nd circle out of whole cloth.
    Last edited by Plastic Doll; 03-07-2020, 10:32 AM.

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  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    As I see it, a Terrestrial 2 working could make a Blood Ape passable as a large, hunched, feral looking human. Like a Garou's Glabro form: it looks human but it explicitly doesn't look normal.

    You're not going to convince anyone your Erymanthoi are dainty Patrician noblemen of the Realm. But 6-7' foot tall wild savages with pointy (but passibly human) teeth and nails, sounds like it should be doable.

    Of course, you haven't changed their nature. They're still blood apes. They still love violence. They still hate cats. They still are naturally immaterial. Anyone who knows their demons, or has a chance to study your disguised servants, is going to realise that something is screwy. Anyone who sees them up close without a heavy cloak hiding them is going to be freaked out by your strange, feral savages.

    Turning your blood apes into 5', 98lb, mild mannered, cat lovers who can pass for dainty patrician noblemen is not a Terrestrial working. That's Celestial 3/Solar 1 cosmic ****ery.

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  • Plastic Doll
    replied
    Originally posted by autXautY View Post

    I might say you can do cosmetic alterations to any sort of being, or at least any sort of willing being, at the same level (probably Terrestrial 2). It doesn't matter how powerful they are if all you're doing is giving them a metaphorical paint job - you aren't touching the power at all.

    For a paint job sure, but what was giving me pause is that the Blood-Ape is described as massive with massive claws and teeth and generally humans lack those kinds of merits. Not taking away his charms is one thing but the transformation isn't meant to be an illusion. The demon wouldn't be 8f tall anymore.

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  • autXautY
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

    Agree on both counts.

    Terrestrial 2 to make cosmetic alterations to a Blood Ape (with a roll to recognise the disguised demon).
    Celestial 2 to alter the nature of ANY willing supernatural being (but it has to stay within theme -- elemntals can reflect different elements but are still elementals, demons still reflect their oversoul, deathlords are still deathlords).
    I might say you can do cosmetic alterations to any sort of being, or at least any sort of willing being, at the same level (probably Terrestrial 2). It doesn't matter how powerful they are if all you're doing is giving them a metaphorical paint job - you aren't touching the power at all.

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  • Plastic Doll
    replied
    Thank you both.

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