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  • Brawl and Evocations

    I do not have the backer pdf so my knowledge is limited to what people have written about the pdf and the rules. So I have no way to look this up.

    That said, from what I understand evocations are about unlocking cool powers in a particular weapon, right?

    Can you get evocations for your fists and feet if you go heavy into Brawl, or a martial arts style that uses hands and feet as signature weapons?

  • #2
    If you're a bare-hand brawler, then you can't get Evocations from your fist. It's a fist. If there's evocations associated with your bare hands, they're called Brawl Charms.

    Now if you, say, have a pair of Smashfists, THOSE you can get Evocations from. Artifact hand-wraps delicately inked with prayers to the might of the Sun? THOSE can get Evocations.

    I remember at one point Vance saying that Evocations/Artifacts that give your unarmed attacks artifact weapon stats for MA attacks are something you should put behind an investment wall, most likely.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #3
      You can also have armor with Evocations that enhance your unarmed attacks.


      "From now on, instead of saying 'half-assed', I will use 'muled'. 'This is a muled job, Chris', I will say to my friend Chris. 'You need to do better, or your ass is grass. And not, like, metaphorical grass. There are weeds growing in there as we speak.'

      "'The DEA is after you, man' I will tell him, in all seriousness."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Khantalas View Post
        You can also have armor with Evocations that enhance your unarmed attacks.
        Oh yeah, and don't forget things like Jen's Rage in the Cage artifact and its evocations, that was awesome.


        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
          I remember at one point Vance saying that Evocations/Artifacts that give your unarmed attacks artifact weapon stats for MA attacks are something you should put behind an investment wall, most likely.
          The biggest issue here is Martial Arts. Combining Snake+Crane+Tiger+whatever else you want with unarmed attacks is already really, really good. Providing easy access to artifact-level unarmed attacks would remove the one thing keeping it from being the absolute best martial artist build, I worry. All of the Brawl Charms that improve unarmed attacks are also a risk factor.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
            The biggest issue here is Martial Arts. Combining Snake+Crane+Tiger+whatever else you want with unarmed attacks is already really, really good. Providing easy access to artifact-level unarmed attacks would remove the one thing keeping it from being the absolute best martial artist build, I worry. All of the Brawl Charms that improve unarmed attacks are also a risk factor.
            White Dreaming Tiger Snake Courtesan. You can also mix in some Ebon Shadow. I've seen what Ebon Shadow and Snake can do together, and it's KIND of terrifying, WITH unarmed attacks.

            A rough breakdown of how THAT attack went:

            Me: Alright, [Night], your turn.
            Night: So, I'll combine Armor-Piercing Fang Strike from Snake Style with Seven Points of Weakness Strike from Ebon Shadow...
            Me: Okay, so...
            Night: Well Armor-Piercing Fang Strike lets me ignore the enemy's armored soak, so for this attack it's basically set to zero. And Seven Points Strike says under its Mastery Effect that the unspent armored soak reduction is converted to post-soak dice.
            Me: And your Stealth is five, the attack is unexpected, and the armored soak IS set to zero by Armor-Piercing Fang... So that's ten dice of post-soak damage. Jesus.
            Night: Pretty much.
            Me: I'm sure that if we showed this to Vance, he'd say "Well that's working as intended."
            Last edited by Kyman201; 12-09-2015, 04:19 PM.


            Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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            • #7
              Black Claw and Dreaming Pearl together have some absurd synergy, too. Vindictive Concubine's Pillow Book + Heart Ripping Claw gives up to 6x damage on a decisive attack. Martial artists are really really scary.


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              • #8
                Here are the options I can come up with to make this happen for you:

                1) There are a couple of examples of hearthstones that give you evocations for unarmed attacks and grappling.

                2) There's also some sorcery spells that let you purchase evocations if that spell is your control spell (for example, Wood Dragon's Claws).

                3) There's also a demonic tatoo sorcerous merit that lets you purchase evocations, but that doesn't affect your brawl/martial arts attacks necessarily. That beng said, it lets you know that evocations coming from tatoos are a thing that can happen, so if you invest in a 3+ dot artifact tatoo, I don't see why you couldn't get an evocation from it that alters your unarmed attacks.

                4) If he's a brawler, then make a custom brawl charm that lets the solar's fist behave like artifacts and additional repurchases let the solar use evocations with their unarmed brawl attacks. Use similar charms like Glorious Solar Saber to figure out mote costs, charm type, and othe specifics.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lanaya View Post
                  Black Claw and Dreaming Pearl together have some absurd synergy, too. Vindictive Concubine's Pillow Book + Heart Ripping Claw gives up to 6x damage on a decisive attack. Martial artists are really really scary.
                  Hell hath no fury like a martial artist scorned.


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                  • #10
                    I usually avoid reading Black Claw Style, or using Black Claw Style, or allowing my players to get Black Claw Style, but I would not be at all surprised if Mara came up with it after someone actually scorned her love by punching her really hard.

                    "Now you will love me, forever," says the deer-footed lady, "and no parries or counters will be able to protect you." She then dances off, to another nightmare, to taste all the wonders and terrors Creation has to offer her. There is so much to do, and so little of an eternity to do it.


                    "From now on, instead of saying 'half-assed', I will use 'muled'. 'This is a muled job, Chris', I will say to my friend Chris. 'You need to do better, or your ass is grass. And not, like, metaphorical grass. There are weeds growing in there as we speak.'

                    "'The DEA is after you, man' I will tell him, in all seriousness."

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                    • #11
                      I don't have a game going yet, but one player I know is dreaming up a Stealth Supernal with Tiger and Ebon Shadow up to the Form or so. Rounded up with a bit of Athletics and Dodge, most likely.

                      I can already see how it goes: stealth (including reflexively alongside join battle) -> build up ridiculous Initiative -> monstrous surprise Decisive attack, possibly after a rushing an opponent while still in stealth -> Incapacitated opponent gives reflexive stealth again. Repeat until everybody is dead without anyone ever seeing the character.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by danelsan View Post
                        I don't have a game going yet, but one player I know is dreaming up a Stealth Supernal with Tiger and Ebon Shadow up to the Form or so.
                        Ebon Shadow stylists are welcome for me adding a couple of more ninja weapons to their list.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                          Now if you, say, have a pair of Smashfists, THOSE you can get Evocations from. Artifact hand-wraps delicately inked with prayers to the might of the Sun? THOSE can get Evocations.
                          Hearthstones, too. Enhance your unarmed attacks to let you light your fists on fire or throw hadoken from them!

                          Because really, what more do you need out of unarmed combat?
                          Last edited by Guancyto; 12-09-2015, 10:20 PM.

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                          • #14
                            If Wood Dragon's Claws is your control spell you can make evocations for them. Only usable when you have the spell up but that's the only non artifact way I've seen.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by danelsan View Post
                              I can already see how it goes: stealth (including reflexively alongside join battle) -> build up ridiculous Initiative -> monstrous surprise Decisive attack, possibly after a rushing an opponent while still in stealth -> Incapacitated opponent gives reflexive stealth again. Repeat until everybody is dead without anyone ever seeing the character.
                              Make a brawler for Grappling strength based attacks.
                              Then grapple them from stealth and use "Shadow Replacement Technique" in combination with "Flow Like Blood". You will need Essence 2, but this will let you accumulate Initiative while pretending to be one of the attackers.

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