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  • #76
    Hey there, as I've told you in pm me and my favorite ST tried your overhaul/rewrite, enjoyed most of it and modified what we didn't like or agree with, or simply preferred differently.
    I'd like to share our findings/conclusions to let people know how it worked out in our games as well as get feedback so that we might further adjust or revert things we didn't think through well enough.

    I'm also in the process of writing a session by session report in the manner that Solstice did, since I found that very helpful in understanding his position, but I won't have it finished today and we'll be rather busy the next couple of days, so I decided to share what we have already:

    We played two different 1on1 games, one with about 6 hours of playtime and the other.... well, by now beyond 20 hours.

    Some rambling about the first game:
    The first was an insane Twilight trying to mirror an unhinged Agatha Heterodyne from Girl Genius in abilities, but as a washed out sorcerer-engineer guy from Lookshye.
    We played about 6 hours with the Sanctaphraxian craft system and had lots of fun, though we found ourselves turning to the merit I posted earlier in this thread after about two hours. While we agreed one could probably adjust the clockwork/statue/homonculi charms to work for this concept, we wanted to just keep playing and leave things as they were for the most part.

    The charms Living Statue Genesis and Stone Legion Construction simply didn't allow for a character who starts surrounding himself with clockwork constructs of varying utility, unless you create all of those as one big project for Stone Legion. One also might argue that you could have up to a size 3 group of servants that all are different and animated per Stone Legion, which we tried for a bit, but the motes quickly felt not quite worth it, though the ability to create life itself was fun to have at a moment's notice.


    Some rambling about the second game:
    The second character was an ancient Egypt inspired Twilight, who had to step in after the pharaoh she served was killed. The only gods of her country that cared to offer an opinion agreed she'd be their best representative (Allies & Influence).
    This character was foremost worried with taking over things and keeping the country running, while affecting change in a society that values tradition like gold. The only craft this character had was architecture, which presented an interesting contrast to the other character.
    In this game we implemented the things we thought needed changing to account for our own playstyle and preferences. Some didn't work and we reverted back, most we are happy with.
    From statues that defend the country to talking obelisks that help people find their way and shield them from the sun for a day this game forced me to go about crafting a very different way, especially since it always involved commissioning workers to get the monumental artifacts in place.
    We did consider creating a specialty charm that is basically a copy of the alchemy charm, but for lesser mystical effects one might want regularly for architecture, but didn't do this, so we could keep trying out the basic system (and later on, our changes).


    Please consider this to be constructive criticism, as well as a "this works better for us, we're not saying it's bad" even if at points I forget to make an effort to make it sound friendly. Any other tone besides friendly is not intended, but I'm tired and can't be bothered to double check what I've written down yesterday. I also apologize if I repeat myself.

    Basic system:

    We decided not to use specialties the way you did. Our method is a slightly more complicated affair for a simple reason.
    Instead of using specialties to represent what craft you have mastered, we use a system like Lore topics, except that you have to pay for them the same way you would in your version. The only things that change are how you write them down, and the +1 dice.
    This way, specialties keep their “say something about the character” use, which we felt was watered down once you got a bunch of craft specialties.
    One would obviously adjust the specialty charms' prerequisites accordingly.

    Difficulty and goal numbers:

    We decided to use the basic rules in regards to time, terminus, difficulty and even crafting slots. We both feel strongly about keeping the difficulty in the new edition of Exalted capped to 5 in most cases and didn't feel more rolls would add anything for us.
    Introducing workshops and assistants as something that matters, appeals to us but we're unsure how to.
    For now we went with:

    Workshop:
    5 rolls for a basic workshop, with all the standard tools. However, manses and extremely large Artifacts may require large numbers of labourers as part of the “workshop”.
    6 rolls for a master's workshop, which contains a high-quality example of every tool a normal craftsman in the field would ever want. A character using Craftsman Needs No Tools has this level of workshop for most projects.
    6 rolls, +1 Non-Charm die for a supernaturally excellent workshop. These are rare in Creation, but a few Dynasts and gods and other stranger things have them.
    Fiat-level modifiers for one of the legendary First Age factory-cathedrals.

    Materials:
    -1 rolls for having to stretch a bit of magical material or using wondrous ingredients that “kinda” fit.
    Unmodified rolls for having some magical material and/or a few thematically appropriate wondrous ingredients.
    +1 rolls for having plenty of magical materials and/or at least one genuinely impressive wondrous ingredient.
    +2 rolls for having an embarrassing surplus of suitable ingredients or something that is simply perfect for the intended task.
    Fiat-level modifiers for having something that makes the ST say "holy shit".


    Bonuses (Once, not per interval):
    -1 goal number for working with a master assistant or a team of competent workers.
    -1*artifact level goal number for working with supernaturally excellent help. Sometimes such helpers will have Charms that provide bonuses above and beyond this one.
    -2 goal number roll for having an Ability related to the Artifact at 5, or at 3 with a relevant specialty.
    -2 goal number for having a Charm, spell, anima power, or other magical ability that's related to the Artifact.


    Being able to earn more rolls by asking the ST what you'd have to do to make that happen seems interesting. We never had it actually come up, but pretended it happened twice, just to try it out and it seems reasonable.
    The same goes for having materials or something left over, if you finish early.
    In our Egypt game we defaulted to your building something creating a new, but weaker and very specific mystical ingredient in the process.
    I have no idea if that would work for most games, but it ended up becoming a major plot point in our game, with a guild of alchemists being founded just to find out how to optimize this process and maybe even find a way to synthesize some of the materials.


    In our game so far this worked alright, though things sometimes felt a bit weak, when we tried higher numbers it felt like it quickly got out of hand.
    We didn’t like the “just take more time to get it done” options. While certainly valid from a in-game perspective, I don’t think anyone actually enjoys taking that option. But lots of people might take it, because it's strong. It might become especially screwy if you stick to the numbers from the book, which in the end we decided to go with.


    We also used the rules form the basic system for time you need to invest as well as roll intervals, since we had no disagreement with that part of the system. After having tried both saw no clear winner, so we stuck to the original. We did vastly prefer being able to craft in "downtime" even though the characters I played both spent noticeable time on crafting, the option to instead go pursue another part of the story, without having a project stagnate completely, was pleasant.
    Taking into account another game with a full group I play a crafter in, I really can't imagine giving up the "you get to craft and do other stuff" anymore.


    The charms and what we did with them:

    I'll only adress the ones we modified.

    Supreme Masterwork Focus
    Normal costs need to be replaced, but this seems excessive. It’s easy to make your anima shoot high with this, but I have no idea what to replace it with.
    Our solution has been to make the third purchase cost 8m, 1wp rather than 10m, 1wp. We also added Mute to this charm at it’s third level.

    After a few sessions with this, it started to feel unnecessarily complicated. We concluded to just ditch the idea of having to pay for removed craft xp with motes and then trying to make part of the problems it creates (anima display, higher mote drain) go away. We still felt it ought to cost more than in the backer pdf, but trying to make things balanced led to us overcharging this charm at first.
    A three charm repurchase is a high enough cost, so we lowered the cost to 3m, 1wp (1m higher than originally) and didn’t give it mute.
    Three sessions later we felt we had found the right balance, at least for our games.

    Flawless Example
    We tampered around with the cost a bit, while we were adjusting Supreme Masterwork Focus, but in the end realized the problem wasn’t with this charms price in motes.
    We were thinking about requiring the object to have some minimum successes threshold, but decided against it. If you want to craft a 1 success item and have people copy it perfectly with two successes, why the hell not? It’s slightly funky, mechanically, but nothing’s going to break.
    PS: We love this charm.

    Object Strengthening Touch
    We completely agree, we merely chose the other name (Durability-Enhancing Technique), since it felt weird to me to have a crafter and not have a charm by that name.
    While I personally don’t miss Object-Strengthening Touch, I would consider buying it as an upgrade to Durability-Enhancing Technique. Perhaps upgrade the size of the object as well as the base resistance to the value you already suggest in your version, as well as giving you the option of using Object Strengthening Touch (giving it the values DET would normally have)?

    Master Craftsman's Eye
    Changed the cost to 3m without double 8, 5m as is. Confident this is fine.

    Arete-Shifting Prana
    Among the gained specialties, the ones lost should be represented, unless the story warrants such a radical shift.

    Supreme Celestial Focus
    Very strong, but we approve strongly. I think this should be a repurchase, since repurchases feel less bad than having a “dead” charm, even though technically nothing is different, apart from the phrasing.

    Benevolent Worker's Joy
    Those are a lot of prerequisites. Wouldn’t two of those suffice?
    We thoroughly love the mote regen while helping. It’s such a small thing, but it feels great.

    Awe-Inspiring Feats Of Craft
    Introduce an alternative cost for resisting the positive Intimacy?
    There definitively should be a way to resist, that doesn’t cost wp, since you can’t say “no” (like you could with the lore training charms for example).
    Maybe develop a negative one, (possibly of resentment? Jealousy?) towards the item constructed or repaired instead of paying a wp?

    The Craft Of War
    Require Craftsman needs no tools or similar power or artifact to be active, to use? Unsure about this.
    If we decide in favor of it, make these two charms activate at the same time, despite both being simple, and make CNNT last for that battle.
    I really wanted to try this, but it simply didn't come up in our games beyond a single scene in the first of the games, which just doesn't feel like enough to conclude anything.

    Tireless Workhorse Method
    Left this charm as well as CNNT as they were.
    Made this an upgrade option of CNNT at essence 2.
    CNNT doesn’t really address how you speed your work, so I don’t think the essence 3 upgrade is actually necessary.

    Gaze Of The Great Maker
    Very strong, but again we approve strongly, but would make it a repurchase.
    This should get a similar condition as the awareness charms that let you regain the committed motes.
    I see this as a good thing not just for the player, but for the ST. You take away any reason the player would have not to have this charm on at all times, after he’s been using it long enough for you to assume he’s using it, at all times. Once you get used to it in your descriptions. I think it preferable to not have the player decide he’d rather have 10m for the upcoming scene, since this is one of those things you start to count on as a ST.
    I thought that was actually a pretty ingenious decision the writers made with the Awareness charms.

    Words As Workshop Method
    Not sure about the costs, either. We went with 2m>3m>6m>15m
    A catapult should be it’s own category, easily costing 20m and available from essence 3 or 4 on.

    Thousand-Forge Hands
    Since we settled on using the old numbers, as well as Slots, after having played around with the ones suggested in the original rewrite, we simply went back to the version in the book.

    Breach-Healing Method
    On one hand I like the idea of the charm, but I think this is too good and lasts too long, without being limited to a specific thing it is for. The people watching are simply inspired, rather than inspired as long as they aid or emulate you.
    I think I would prefer a Tiger-Warrior/Sea-Devil equivalent to this.
    With a limitation of “what they glean from your crafting must make narrative sense” it seems to work (maybe even as intended ?) but I really don’t know how to keep this balanced.
    IF you use the charm as is, it should also apply to shape sorcery and sorcerous workings. I see no reason to exclude them.

    Design Beyond Limit
    We agree that we should wait on the rewrite.

    First Movement Of The Demiurge
    Since we settled on using the old numbers, as well as Slots, after having played around with the ones suggested in the original rewrite, we simply went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, simply kicking that charm’s craft xp cost and increasing the activation cost by 1wp.
    Seems easily worth it, under the original craft systems numbers, not sure if it’d be worth it in the rewrite.

    Essence-Forging Kata
    We went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, while adding a 1wp cost to the charm.

    Eternal Bulwark Of Order
    Kinda underwhelming. We’ll revisit this once we have actual wyld rules.

    The Art Of Permanence
    While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, this, to me, crosses the line of what should be possible.
    Maybe if it was limited in a specific way. I think I see less of a problem creating a ladder from materials very unsuited to it rather than making the essence constructs entirely real. A ladder of sand? A sword of paper? Kinda works, especially if it’s temporary (which you might be able to make permanent with the original version of this charm, or Object Strengthening Touch/Durability-Enhancing Technique).
    But *poof* stuff, feels a bit too sorcery to me, which is why I’d rather not have it be able of doing this.
    Also, I very much like the original charm, so we’ve reintroduced it.
    In this version of this charm, Durability-Enhancing Technique is added as a prerequisite.

    Divine Inspiration Technique
    Reintroduced Unwinding Gyre Meditation. What you lose & gain seems balanced towards each other if you simply pull out the craft xp as cost as well as reward.
    Also, only way to gain additional intervals I am aware of.

    Painted Truth Prana/Philosophy Carved In Stone
    I’d change the attributes to the same that are used for written social attacks, so basically any attribute.

    Dual Magus Prana
    A version of this might a good prerequisite charm for Dual-Magnus prana, we really don’t want that charm to go. We think it is a great tool for players in a system without Hero points, Edge or Fate to be able to invest deep enough to have this one chance.
    We'd rather go with a xp investment over motes, but one could easily allow that as an option, with the same conditions for regaining the xp as you'd have with survival or war charms.


    Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique
    &
    Life From The Workshop
    &
    Stone Legion Construction/Mechanical Legion Construction
    These just didn't work for what we wanted them for. Maybe an xp cost, here too? They might be worth it for someone who is a pure crafter, and nothing else, but for characters that need their motes in battle, these charms are very unimpressive to use. We haven't come up with anything beyond the merit we are already using in games before your system, but we do intend to give these another look over. The ability to temporarily create living statues, walking armours and so on is tempting.



    3EX Martial Arts basic overview (Weapons, Armor, Attributes & Abilities)

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by norraba View Post
      so sorry for possibly dragging this up almost a week since the last post but my st just showed me this post, and i'm really liking it, i haven't read the specific charms yet since i want to wait til the morning to do that with a clear head but i like most of the tweak and charms so far and i've read all the comments and honestly this is the first craft thread i've really enjoyed in a while, ever since a few members suggested we create a purely crafting exalted game lol.
      It's fine, this thread is nowhere near dead.

      And thanks.

      Originally posted by norraba View Post
      the only thing i might disagree with is this part towards the end of the thread concerning social attacks with art
      You have a point. I don't want to let Craft absorb Linguistics' schtick, though.

      There should be some kind of middle ground here, between "full access to lasting multi-target social influence even against illiterate people" and "art isn't convincing".

      Anyone have any suggestions?

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Please consider this to be constructive criticism, as well as a "this works better for us, we're not saying it's bad" even if at points I forget to make an effort to make it sound friendly. Any other tone besides friendly is not intended, but I'm tired and can't be bothered to double check what I've written down yesterday.
      Don't worry about it. I might be argumentative, but I'm not thin-skinned.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      We decided not to use specialties the way you did. Our method is a slightly more complicated affair for a simple reason.
      Instead of using specialties to represent what craft you have mastered, we use a system like Lore topics, except that you have to pay for them the same way you would in your version. The only things that change are how you write them down, and the +1 dice.
      This way, specialties keep their “say something about the character” use, which we felt was watered down once you got a bunch of craft specialties.
      Makes sense. I knew that was an issue with my approach, but I thought it was a worthwhile sacrifice for simplicity's sake.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      We decided to use the basic rules in regards to time, terminus, difficulty and even crafting slots. We both feel strongly about keeping the difficulty in the new edition of Exalted capped to 5 in most cases and didn't feel more rolls would add anything for us.
      This is kind of a surprise to me. I never even thought about that when writing these rules. If I had, I probably would've looked to feats of strength for a precedent.

      So why do you want to keep difficulties capped at 5?

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      We didn’t like the “just take more time to get it done” options. While certainly valid from a in-game perspective, I don’t think anyone actually enjoys taking that option. But lots of people might take it, because it's strong. It might become especially screwy if you stick to the numbers from the book, which in the end we decided to go with.
      Yeah, I'm not sure about those. But I feel like a DB or a god or something ought to be able to make a really powerful Artifact if they spend years and years.

      I don't really expect people to use that option, but I felt like it should be available for setting reasons.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      We did vastly prefer being able to craft in "downtime" even though the characters I played both spent noticeable time on crafting, the option to instead go pursue another part of the story, without having a project stagnate completely, was pleasant.
      Taking into account another game with a full group I play a crafter in, I really can't imagine giving up the "you get to craft and do other stuff" anymore.
      I was already planning to add something slot-esque, so this confirms that plan for me.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Supreme Masterwork Focus
      Normal costs need to be replaced, but this seems excessive. It’s easy to make your anima shoot high with this, but I have no idea what to replace it with.
      Our solution has been to make the third purchase cost 8m, 1wp rather than 10m, 1wp. We also added Mute to this charm at it’s third level.

      After a few sessions with this, it started to feel unnecessarily complicated. We concluded to just ditch the idea of having to pay for removed craft xp with motes and then trying to make part of the problems it creates (anima display, higher mote drain) go away. We still felt it ought to cost more than in the backer pdf, but trying to make things balanced led to us overcharging this charm at first.
      A three charm repurchase is a high enough cost, so we lowered the cost to 3m, 1wp (1m higher than originally) and didn’t give it mute.
      Three sessions later we felt we had found the right balance, at least for our games.
      I don't like the idea of reducing the mote cost as the effect gets stronger. How about 4m for the basic effect and 4m 1wp for either of the improved effects?

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Flawless Example
      We tampered around with the cost a bit, while we were adjusting Supreme Masterwork Focus, but in the end realized the problem wasn’t with this charms price in motes.
      We were thinking about requiring the object to have some minimum successes threshold, but decided against it. If you want to craft a 1 success item and have people copy it perfectly with two successes, why the hell not? It’s slightly funky, mechanically, but nothing’s going to break.
      PS: We love this charm.
      Glad to hear. I'm pretty fond of it too.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Object Strengthening Touch
      We completely agree, we merely chose the other name (Durability-Enhancing Technique), since it felt weird to me to have a crafter and not have a charm by that name.
      While I personally don’t miss Object-Strengthening Touch, I would consider buying it as an upgrade to Durability-Enhancing Technique. Perhaps upgrade the size of the object as well as the base resistance to the value you already suggest in your version, as well as giving you the option of using Object Strengthening Touch (giving it the values DET would normally have)?
      I'll think about it.

      Might change the name too: I have no attachment to either name, so if DET feels right to people than I'll use it.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Master Craftsman's Eye
      Changed the cost to 3m without double 8, 5m as is. Confident this is fine.
      Sounds fine to me, but...why?

      I'm loath to spend text on a situational 2m discount.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Arete-Shifting Prana
      Among the gained specialties, the ones lost should be represented, unless the story warrants such a radical shift.
      Didn't even mean for that to be possible. I'll rephrase it to, "the Solar gains two additional Craft specialties for each of their current Craft specialties".

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Supreme Celestial Focus
      Very strong, but we approve strongly. I think this should be a repurchase, since repurchases feel less bad than having a “dead” charm, even though technically nothing is different, apart from the phrasing.
      Good idea.

      Having two "Supreme X Focus" Charms in Craft with completely different effects was annoying anyway.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Benevolent Worker's Joy
      Those are a lot of prerequisites. Wouldn’t two of those suffice?
      We thoroughly love the mote regen while helping. It’s such a small thing, but it feels great.
      Used to be no prereqs, but people here convinced me to be stingier with willpower recovery. It's got 4 prereqs because that's what Empowered Barter Stance has.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Awe-Inspiring Feats Of Craft
      Introduce an alternative cost for resisting the positive Intimacy?
      There definitively should be a way to resist, that doesn’t cost wp, since you can’t say “no” (like you could with the lore training charms for example).
      Maybe develop a negative one, (possibly of resentment? Jealousy?) towards the item constructed or repaired instead of paying a wp?
      You should be able to reject the Intimacy for free if you actually want to. Most people won't, though. I'll see if I can make that clearer.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      The Craft Of War
      Require Craftsman needs no tools or similar power or artifact to be active, to use? Unsure about this.
      If we decide in favor of it, make these two charms activate at the same time, despite both being simple, and make CNNT last for that battle.
      I really wanted to try this, but it simply didn't come up in our games beyond a single scene in the first of the games, which just doesn't feel like enough to conclude anything.
      It shouldn't require a CNNT activation. I think the current cost is enough for the effect. Will clarify.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Tireless Workhorse Method
      Left this charm as well as CNNT as they were.
      Made this an upgrade option of CNNT at essence 2.
      CNNT doesn’t really address how you speed your work, so I don’t think the essence 3 upgrade is actually necessary.
      Hm. As a ST, I wouldn't let a Solar speed the work of an entire team with CNNT. But maybe I'm in the minority. I'll think about that.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Gaze Of The Great Maker
      Very strong, but again we approve strongly, but would make it a repurchase.
      This should get a similar condition as the awareness charms that let you regain the committed motes.
      I see this as a good thing not just for the player, but for the ST. You take away any reason the player would have not to have this charm on at all times, after he’s been using it long enough for you to assume he’s using it, at all times. Once you get used to it in your descriptions. I think it preferable to not have the player decide he’d rather have 10m for the upcoming scene, since this is one of those things you start to count on as a ST.
      I thought that was actually a pretty ingenious decision the writers made with the Awareness charms.
      Not sure what you mean. Looking over the Awareness Charms, I don't see a refund mechanism.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Breach-Healing Method
      On one hand I like the idea of the charm, but I think this is too good and lasts too long, without being limited to a specific thing it is for. The people watching are simply inspired, rather than inspired as long as they aid or emulate you.
      I think I would prefer a Tiger-Warrior/Sea-Devil equivalent to this.
      With a limitation of “what they glean from your crafting must make narrative sense” it seems to work (maybe even as intended ?) but I really don’t know how to keep this balanced.
      IF you use the charm as is, it should also apply to shape sorcery and sorcerous workings. I see no reason to exclude them.
      Hm, interesting idea. A Craft training Charm would be pretty cool.

      I think boosting sorcery rolls might be too strong. Seems to me that those rolls are meant to be kinda hard to boost.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Essence-Forging Kata
      We went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, while adding a 1wp cost to the charm.
      Not sure what you mean by going back to the book version. Apart from the prereq, I didn't change this one.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      The Art Of Permanence
      While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, this, to me, crosses the line of what should be possible.
      Maybe if it was limited in a specific way. I think I see less of a problem creating a ladder from materials very unsuited to it rather than making the essence constructs entirely real. A ladder of sand? A sword of paper? Kinda works, especially if it’s temporary (which you might be able to make permanent with the original version of this charm, or Object Strengthening Touch/Durability-Enhancing Technique).
      But *poof* stuff, feels a bit too sorcery to me, which is why I’d rather not have it be able of doing this.
      Also, I very much like the original charm, so we’ve reintroduced it.
      In this version of this charm, Durability-Enhancing Technique is added as a prerequisite.
      Yeah, it was a mistake to remove the old Art Of Permanence.

      I don't really like ladders of sand and such for Solars. Doesn't feel fitting from them, to me. It's more like what a Lunar or a Raksha would do.

      Directly forging stuff from your anima, meanwhile, feels totally Solar. I mean, Solars have been creating swords and horses and stuff from their animas since forever. "Poof, stuff" is as Solar as it gets.

      Originally posted by Edward Eldritch View Post
      Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique
      &
      Life From The Workshop
      &
      Stone Legion Construction/Mechanical Legion Construction
      These just didn't work for what we wanted them for. Maybe an xp cost, here too? They might be worth it for someone who is a pure crafter, and nothing else, but for characters that need their motes in battle, these charms are very unimpressive to use. We haven't come up with anything beyond the merit we are already using in games before your system, but we do intend to give these another look over. The ability to temporarily create living statues, walking armours and so on is tempting.
      They weren't meant for what you wanted them for. My idea was that people could use Artifacts for long-term servants.

      The mote costs are probably too high. But of course, being able to kill people without actually being present shouldn't be free. Do you think 5m/10m/20m would be fair?

      Anyway, if you want permanent servants, spending xp is probably a good way to go. The first Charm gives a one-dot Familiar, the second gives a two-dot Familiar or a two-dot Retainer, and the third gives a three-dot Familiar or a difficult-to-classify Command. Normally Merits cost 3xp per dot...do you think that cost would be fair on these Charms?

      Anyway, thanks a bunch for the thorough feedback.


      EX3 Craft Rewrite

      Sanctaphrax is not a person
      -Chejop Kejak

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by norraba View Post
        the only thing i might disagree with is this part towards the end of the thread concerning social attacks with art

        Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post


        You have a point. I don't want to let Craft absorb Linguistics' schtick, though.

        There should be some kind of middle ground here, between "full access to lasting multi-target social influence even against illiterate people" and "art isn't convincing".

        Anyone have any suggestions?
        hmm, maybe confirmation bias, combined with peoples intent to actually critically analyze what the art means.

        like you said art has the ability to inspire feelings, but it takes someone wanting to actually try and figure out what the artist intended to get something more from it, in the same way that people aren't necessarily going to put all the effort into reading a long propaganda pamphlet, but on top of that there is the issue of confirmation bias, where individuals are often just looking for what they want to see.
        for instance the examples i gave to you before supporting occupation, people from europe who were already of a mind to find the concept of colonization appealing and want justification for such, will look at that kind of art and see the justification for what they want to believe already, but the colonized will look at it and see that it for the propaganda it is, or possibly it will create internalized racism within them.
        this can happen with literature as well, but the system doesn't treat it like that unless perhaps someone botches their roll maybe.

        so what i'm thinking is that without charms, the crafter is able to have either a specific or general idea of the message they want to convey, but without a charm there is no guarantee that the person will take the time analyze it as more than just an interesting picture or statue, and even if they do, without charms there is no guarantee that the person will take the massage away that the crafter wants.

        I think that unlike with linguistic persuade charms there should be an alternate message that the st comes up with that there is the potential for character to come away with, and unlike being able to simply being able to overpower the message with an existing intimacy, its possible that that intimacy used to overcome the social influence becomes stronger.
        I.E. a piece of art is made depicting the trichon of chiaroscuro eating a feast while the poor are depicted at their feet starving and eating the scraps that fall off the table.
        the intended message is that the trichon is abusing the people and becoming bloated on their suffering, a possible alternative that the st could come up with is that the trichon cares so much for the people he gives them food from his own table.
        if a person overcomes the influence with an intimacy, say love for their own wealth, it could strengthen that love of their own wealth and create an intimacy of wanting to become as rich as the trichon.

        sorry this is all just a preliminary idea, and it would make it so that you'd have to make a few more charms which i apologize for lol.


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        • #79

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post

          There should be some kind of middle ground here, between "full access to lasting multi-target social influence even against illiterate people" and "art isn't convincing".

          Anyone have any suggestions?
          I personally think it probably ought to be able to Inspire but nothing else, perhaps?
          Maybe even allow Instill? But only giving relative guidelines what the Intimacy will be such as "a negative intimacy, having to do with fair folk" or "a positive intimacy, something to do with the sun".


          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          This is kind of a surprise to me. I never even thought about that when writing these rules. If I had, I probably would've looked to feats of strength for a precedent.

          So why do you want to keep difficulties capped at 5?
          Because in 3EX it seems as if they made an actual effort to keep difficulties capped to 5, with some exceptions. In past editions I felt like the difficulty given in the basic rules was a joke, as exceptions quickly became the norm.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Yeah, I'm not sure about those. But I feel like a DB or a god or something ought to be able to make a really powerful Artifact if they spend years and years.

          I don't really expect people to use that option, but I felt like it should be available for setting reasons.
          I think you're right. While I don't like the idea of that option overmuch, I'll make a note in my edited version of your system to revisit this once the Dragonblooded book is out and we see what capabilities they'd get under the canon craft system. If there's no other way to give them a hand, we'll reintroduce the option in our version of your rules.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          I don't like the idea of reducing the mote cost as the effect gets stronger. How about 4m for the basic effect and 4m 1wp for either of the improved effects?
          I understand that. But I also think it's actually a good mechanic. You are, after all, paying a hefty price with repurchases. Without a mote discount, the repurchases feel slightly weaker. With them, they feel about right to us.
          If you have further thoughts on this, please share. While we're currently happy with the balance and weren't persuaded by your answer, we're always ready to change our minds.
          And you obviously delved into the crafting system very deeply as well as being the architect of the Sanctaphraxian craft system (no seriously, I'm trying to make that a thing in my group ^^).


          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          I'll think about it.

          Might change the name too: I have no attachment to either name, so if DET feels right to people than I'll use it.
          If you're leaving it up to me (my ST has no preference) I'll take DET any day. ^^

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Sounds fine to me, but...why?

          I'm loath to spend text on a situational 2m discount.
          Because I think I'd like characters to be able to use it for just that part of the charm, because it's the most interesting one. The double 8s are a nifty boon I could do without for 2m more.
          It also makes the charm one you could, albeit it's weaker version, use peripheral motes on, without anima display, since those now only happen with 5m in an instant expenditures.


          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Used to be no prereqs, but people here convinced me to be stingier with willpower recovery. It's got 4 prereqs because that's what Empowered Barter Stance has.
          I guess that's true. Oh well, it's interesting enough that it would be worth the purchase to me, at least with the right character, though it feels slightly pricier than I'd like.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          You should be able to reject the Intimacy for free if you actually want to. Most people won't, though. I'll see if I can make that clearer.
          Your text was clear, I was unclear in trying to argue that on one hand you should have an option that costs you something, but not eat up a willpower...
          Looking at the Lore charms I am using as a reference, those give you xp, so you'd be giving up an advantage if you don't take the intimacy those imprint on you.
          Maybe let this charm give some small, temporary bonus to the next roll of a specific type? Similar to how Sun-King-Radiance gives your followers bonus dice and Resolve for a scene when they emulate you, this might allow people who accept the intimacy to have a bonus die they apply the next time they want?

          I feel like this charm should entice you, rules-wise, to want to say yes, even if the offered thing is small.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          It shouldn't require a CNNT activation. I think the current cost is enough for the effect. Will clarify.
          Yeah, you're right. I'd suggest a rule that makes stunts that work as if CNNT were active, because now that I've had a chance, it's very tempting to be doing it anyway and you shouldn't have to pay for CNNT on top of the base charm.

          By the way, this has led to an amusing gambit/scene: "Desperately throwing engraved scarabs you have to rip from the giant statue's brows at enemies to keep them from climbing said walking statue".
          It was more or less countering their "rush", allowing the character to oppose each of them with a thrown Craft attack. No idea how balanced it would be under other circumstances, but this charm certainly has led to fun for us

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Hm. As a ST, I wouldn't let a Solar speed the work of an entire team with CNNT. But maybe I'm in the minority. I'll think about that.
          I doubt you're in the minority, but I also don't think it's necessarily the right choice. I don't think anything breaks if you allow most charms to work for large-scale things just as easily, as long as some effort to explain or mitigate the problems are made.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Not sure what you mean. Looking over the Awareness Charms, I don't see a refund mechanism.
          Surprise Anticipation Method. The motes it returns to you may be commitment motes, if the charm those motes are from is scene-long or longer and may be applied retroactively (thus negating commitment cost after a while).

          No matter where your opinion falls on whether you must keep reactivating the indefinite versions of "Keen Sense" or whether the retroactive part is more important (our group took a while to reach consensus on the latter), at some point, you'll roll those 6 successes and you can just assume the charm is always on from then on.


          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Hm, interesting idea. A Craft training Charm would be pretty cool.

          I think boosting sorcery rolls might be too strong. Seems to me that those rolls are meant to be kinda hard to boost.
          Maybe one version of a Craft training charm could be a follow-up to Perfect Example?

          Yeah, but the canon version does boost those rolls, so I don't see a reason to tamper with it. I think it's alright for the crafter to be able to boost his sorcerer pal, or himself, more likely.
          I have to say, this is, while a cool imagery, one of the most broken charms in the book, as far as I can tell. Especially with the 5 difficulty being the limit on most things. Even with -5 penalties, this makes every task associated with it very easy.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          Not sure what you mean by going back to the book version. Apart from the prereq, I didn't change this one.
          ...I have no idea either. When I typed that, it seemed to make sense.

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          I don't really like ladders of sand and such for Solars. Doesn't feel fitting from them, to me. It's more like what a Lunar or a Raksha would do.

          Directly forging stuff from your anima, meanwhile, feels totally Solar. I mean, Solars have been creating swords and horses and stuff from their animas since forever. "Poof, stuff" is as Solar as it gets.
          I have to disagree as well as agree. This one is, I think, purely a matter of taste. After talking things through with another member of our regular group. I personally find it easier to imagine a crafter so good at doing his thing, that he can, with a bit of magic, use utterly unfitting materials. The other member of our group preferred the Green-Lantern version. Since, in the end, it'd just be a thing of style, we'll allow either version in our games.
          I see the appeal, by the way. To me, this feels like it would just better fit into Green Sun Prince, Exigent or Weird Other Exalt territory and you can bet your ass I'd pick a charm like this up right away with one of those.
          But you are right, of course. *poof* has been very Solar from Edition 1. None of those things are permanent, thought. But is that really such a big step? I don't know. Kinda?

          Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
          They weren't meant for what you wanted them for. My idea was that people could use Artifacts for long-term servants.

          The mote costs are probably too high. But of course, being able to kill people without actually being present shouldn't be free. Do you think 5m/10m/20m would be fair?

          Anyway, if you want permanent servants, spending xp is probably a good way to go. The first Charm gives a one-dot Familiar, the second gives a two-dot Familiar or a two-dot Retainer, and the third gives a three-dot Familiar or a difficult-to-classify Command. Normally Merits cost 3xp per dot...do you think that cost would be fair on these Charms?

          Anyway, thanks a bunch for the thorough feedback.
          Yeah, we believe we know what the problem is. We want something, that's more than ordinary craft ought to be able to do, but not yet on the level of artifacts.
          Wouldn't it be great if we had a system for something between those power levels?

          Thaumaturgy could have been the answer. It is something I never expected to turn out interesting, and sadly, in that regard, this Edition didn't disappoint. It was so expected, that I forgot even mentioning it in my "Are you happy with 3EX?" answer.
          You're basically a X-Gene mutant. Except you can teach your power. To other mutants. I really liked the "thaumaturgy is just another of Creation's sciences/crafts" angle, even if the rules were bad.

          Oh and gladly, we had a blast with your rules, and they've made me actually consider crafters for future games again, after I'd been too disappointed to want to bother again.
          Instead you gave me and my ST a chance to have a lot of fun with Craft. Kudos from her, too, by the way.


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          • #80
            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            I personally think it probably ought to be able to Inspire but nothing else, perhaps?
            Maybe even allow Instill? But only giving relative guidelines what the Intimacy will be such as "a negative intimacy, having to do with fair folk" or "a positive intimacy, something to do with the sun".
            Taking into account what norraba said...maybe all artistic influence has these limitations:

            -It has to be vague.
            -Any Intimacy it plays on is treated as though it were one step weaker than it actually is. You can't do anything except Inspire without an Intimacy.
            -Characters who don't have the Intimacy it's aimed at will interpret it unpredictably. If you're playing on hatred of some racial group to slander someone, people who like or belong to that racial group might look more favourably on that person in response.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            I understand that. But I also think it's actually a good mechanic. You are, after all, paying a hefty price with repurchases. Without a mote discount, the repurchases feel slightly weaker. With them, they feel about right to us.
            If you have further thoughts on this, please share. While we're currently happy with the balance and weren't persuaded by your answer, we're always ready to change our minds.
            And you obviously delved into the crafting system very deeply as well as being the architect of the Sanctaphraxian craft system (no seriously, I'm trying to make that a thing in my group ^^).
            Heh.

            Honestly I don't have any deep thoughts. It just feels better to me, aesthetically, to keep the same mote cost. I might be the only one with that preference.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            If you're leaving it up to me (my ST has no preference) I'll take DET any day. ^^
            Alright, then, DET it is.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Because I think I'd like characters to be able to use it for just that part of the charm, because it's the most interesting one. The double 8s are a nifty boon I could do without for 2m more.
            It also makes the charm one you could, albeit it's weaker version, use peripheral motes on, without anima display, since those now only happen with 5m in an instant expenditures.
            Good point about the anima. I guess I'll tweak it.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Your text was clear, I was unclear in trying to argue that on one hand you should have an option that costs you something, but not eat up a willpower...
            Looking at the Lore charms I am using as a reference, those give you xp, so you'd be giving up an advantage if you don't take the intimacy those imprint on you.
            Maybe let this charm give some small, temporary bonus to the next roll of a specific type? Similar to how Sun-King-Radiance gives your followers bonus dice and Resolve for a scene when they emulate you, this might allow people who accept the intimacy to have a bonus die they apply the next time they want?

            I feel like this charm should entice you, rules-wise, to want to say yes, even if the offered thing is small.
            That's a pretty cool idea.

            A single bonus die might be a pain to track, though...willpower is the obvious gift here, but it's too big.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Yeah, you're right. I'd suggest a rule that makes stunts that work as if CNNT were active, because now that I've had a chance, it's very tempting to be doing it anyway and you shouldn't have to pay for CNNT on top of the base charm.

            By the way, this has led to an amusing gambit/scene: "Desperately throwing engraved scarabs you have to rip from the giant statue's brows at enemies to keep them from climbing said walking statue".
            It was more or less countering their "rush", allowing the character to oppose each of them with a thrown Craft attack. No idea how balanced it would be under other circumstances, but this charm certainly has led to fun for us
            That's really cool. I'll tweak the Charm to encourage that sort of thing.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            I doubt you're in the minority, but I also don't think it's necessarily the right choice. I don't think anything breaks if you allow most charms to work for large-scale things just as easily, as long as some effort to explain or mitigate the problems are made.
            I'll think about this one.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Surprise Anticipation Method. The motes it returns to you may be commitment motes, if the charm those motes are from is scene-long or longer and may be applied retroactively (thus negating commitment cost after a while).

            No matter where your opinion falls on whether you must keep reactivating the indefinite versions of "Keen Sense" or whether the retroactive part is more important (our group took a while to reach consensus on the latter), at some point, you'll roll those 6 successes and you can just assume the charm is always on from then on.
            Huh. Not sure how I feel about that.

            I can see the appeal, but it might be better just to make the Keen Sense Charms free if that's what's gonna happen eventually.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Maybe one version of a Craft training charm could be a follow-up to Perfect Example?

            Yeah, but the canon version does boost those rolls, so I don't see a reason to tamper with it. I think it's alright for the crafter to be able to boost his sorcerer pal, or himself, more likely.
            I have to say, this is, while a cool imagery, one of the most broken charms in the book, as far as I can tell. Especially with the 5 difficulty being the limit on most things. Even with -5 penalties, this makes every task associated with it very easy.
            Yeah, that's the best place to put it.

            If the Charm's overpowered, I might wanna get rid of it. Kind of a pity, because it is cool.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            I have to disagree as well as agree. This one is, I think, purely a matter of taste. After talking things through with another member of our regular group. I personally find it easier to imagine a crafter so good at doing his thing, that he can, with a bit of magic, use utterly unfitting materials. The other member of our group preferred the Green-Lantern version. Since, in the end, it'd just be a thing of style, we'll allow either version in our games.
            I see the appeal, by the way. To me, this feels like it would just better fit into Green Sun Prince, Exigent or Weird Other Exalt territory and you can bet your ass I'd pick a charm like this up right away with one of those.
            But you are right, of course. *poof* has been very Solar from Edition 1. None of those things are permanent, thought. But is that really such a big step? I don't know. Kinda?
            I guess you're right, it all boils down to taste.

            I'll stick a disclaimer on the Charm. Nothing builds off of it, so people can take or leave it without affecting the rest of the system.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Yeah, we believe we know what the problem is. We want something, that's more than ordinary craft ought to be able to do, but not yet on the level of artifacts.
            Wouldn't it be great if we had a system for something between those power levels?
            I had a system for "one-dot Artifacts" in the first version of these rules. Was going to include stuff like the gems from Perfect Gemcutter's Art and the potions from Twilight Chemistry. But I ditched it when I realized the entire category was made up of exceptions.

            So yeah, I feel the need too. But my attempt to satisfy it didn't go so great.

            Originally posted by Edward Eldritch
            Oh and gladly, we had a blast with your rules, and they've made me actually consider crafters for future games again, after I'd been too disappointed to want to bother again.
            Instead you gave me and my ST a chance to have a lot of fun with Craft. Kudos from her, too, by the way.
            Awesome. Just what I want to hear.


            EX3 Craft Rewrite

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            • #81
              Inspiration struck again, and I wrote three Charms worth of candle-making. These probably won't make it into the Charmset proper, because...well, it's candle-making.

              Not sure about the balance here. How powerful is sunlight? Is 10m committed a fair cost for the ability to wreathe yourself in a lasting bonfire? No idea.

              Candles of the Sun
              Cost: 5m (+1wp); Mins: Craft 2, Essence 1
              Type: Supplemental
              Keywords: None
              Duration: Instant
              Prerequisites: A specialty in candle-making

              This Charm supplements an attempt to make a candle. If it succeeds, the light shed by the candle is twice as bright as usual and is treated as natural sunlight. Moreover, candles enhanced by this Charm last twice as long as they normally would and are significantly harder to extinguish; even underwater, they'll continue to burn. Only deliberate effort can put them out.

              The Solar may spend 1wp when activating this Charm to apply its effects to as many candles as they can make in one sitting.

              Sunfire Trapped In Wax
              Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 2
              Type: Supplemental
              Keywords: Stackable
              Duration: Instant
              Prerequisites: Candles of the Sun

              This Charm supplements an attempt to make a candle. If it succeeds, then the candle's flame is as intense as a bonfire. Anyone lighting it must be quick on their feet to avoid being burned. The candle lasts as long as it normally would, sheds as much light as a bonfire normally would, and is as hard to extinguish as a bonfire normally would be.

              The Solar may activate this Charm more than once when making multiple candles, to enhance more than one candle. Activations after the first cost no willpower.

              Flames Know Their Maker
              Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3
              Type: Permanent
              Keywords: None
              Duration: Permanent
              Prerequisites: Sunfire Trapped In Wax

              This Charm enhances Candles of the Sun and Sunfire Trapped In Wax. Candles enhanced with Candles of the Sun will not burn the Solar or anyone the Solar had a positive Intimacy towards when the candle was made. This effect is not omniscient: it opposes disguises and other attempts to confuse it with (Essence) successes. If a candle won't burn a character, it won't burn their equipment either.

              The Solar may also make safe candles enhanced with Sunfire Trapped In Wax this way, but only by committing the mote cost of that Charm.


              EX3 Craft Rewrite

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              • #82
                I think you view reliable light sources as really important, which may be true, but is... kind of non-obvious in terms of its knock-on effects, if that makes sense? Like, "I can make everybody a suit of armor," is obvious in its utility; figuring out how Thomas Edison actually affects a bronze-age society is a little harder to suss out, and so is going to generate a wider range of opinions on balance.

                How do you see these Charms changing things, in a way that justifies a Charm purchase? How big of a deal are they?


                Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

                Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

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                • #83
                  Yeah, reliable light is great. That wasn't the main point of these, though.

                  Candles Of The Sun is meant to be useful against ghosts and weird monsters from underground that hate and fear the sun. It lets you send little bits of sunshine wherever you want whenever you want.

                  Sunfire Trapped In Wax is meant to give you a way of making incendiary bombs.

                  Flames Know Their Maker is meant to let you carry around a candle and burn up people who wanna stab you.

                  Having written them, I'm not sure they're worth the effort. Although Flames Know Their Maker could be pretty brutal against some opponents.

                  Like I said, I don't plan on putting these in the Charmset proper. But I hate to let an idea go to waste.


                  EX3 Craft Rewrite

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                  • #84
                    Revised Craft Charmset.

                    The new Charms are The Art Of Permanence, Vice-Miracle Technique, Sublime Cartography Technique, Omniscient Surveyor Meditation, and Attention-Demanding Artwork.

                    The altered Charms are Anima Forge Technique (formerly The Art Of Permanence), Arete-Shifting Prana, Supreme Masterwork Focus, Breach-Healing Method, Master Craftsman's Eye, Gaze Of The Great Maker, Durability-Enhancing Technique, Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique, Life From The Workshop, Stone Legion Construction/Mechanical Legion Construction, Twilight Chemistry, and The Craft Of War.

                    The removed Charms are Supreme Celestial Focus and Lock-Opening Touch.

                    Gonna alter the basic rules to accommodate multiple projects and artwork that conveys social influence now.

                    General Charms

                    Craftsman Needs No Tools
                    Cost: 6m; Mins: Craft 3, Essence 1
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Mute
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: None

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to build or repair something, allowing the Solar to work without tools or a workshop.
                    If used to create or repair an Artifact or manse, it counts as a basic workshop and doesn't let the Solar work any faster than normal. If used on a mundane project, this Charm reduces the time required by two increments on the following chart:
                    Decades <-> Years <-> Months <-> Weeks <-> Days <-> Hours <-> Minutes <-> Seconds

                    Reduce the cost of this Charm by 2m if using it with tools that would be sufficient to complete the project normally.


                    Flawless Handiwork Method
                    Agnostic, and I'd like to clarify that you get 2 successes for a 10 even if you reroll it.

                    Supreme Masterwork Focus
                    Cost: 4m; Mins: Craft 3, Essence 1
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method

                    The Solar doubles 9s on a Craft roll.

                    This Charm may be repurchased at Craft 5 Essence 2+. This allows the Solar to spend an additional point of willpower to double 8s on a Craft roll instead.

                    This Charm may be purchased a third time at Essence 3+. This allows the Solar to double 7s instead when spending an additional point of willpower to activate this Charm.


                    Flawless Example
                    Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method

                    The Solar creates something, taking the normal time to do so. For as long as that thing endures, any character with Craft 1+ in a related field who examines it daily adds a success to all rolls to make a similar item. If they're trying to duplicate the item exactly, they add two successes instead. A character who uses this bonus repeatedly for a month may purchase a one-dot Merit which duplicates the effects of examining the item daily. Even with the merit, each success counts as two dice from Charms.

                    I wanted to come up with a method of mass production that felt Solar.


                    Shattering Grasp
                    Cost: 6m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Mute
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    This Charm supplements a feat of strength to break a crafted object or structure. It allows the Solar to use Craft in place of Athletics. If the attempt is successful, the Solar may take the target apart neatly instead of smashing it. In addition, if the Solar spends a few extra minutes performing the attempt, she doubles 8s on the roll and may attempt feats with a Strength minimum up to twice her Strength score.

                    This Charm is fully compatible with Athletics Charms.

                    Not sure if this is balanced right. The original seemed to say that you could destroy almost anything immediately, but that makes a mockery of Athletics-based breaking so I'd rather not do that.

                    Durability-Enhancing Technique
                    Cost: 5m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    The Solar touches an object no larger than (Essence + 2) yards in radius, rendering it virtually indestructible for the rest of the scene. It cannot be broken or damaged without magic, and any attempt to break or damage it with magic has its difficulty increased by (Essence + 1).

                    By spending five minutes to an hour (depending on the target's size) activating this Charm, the Solar may make some of its effects permanent. Objects permanently enhanced this way increase the difficulty of any attempt to damage or break them by (Essence + 1), but they're not permanently immune to mundane attack and they suffer from normal wear and tear at about one hundredth of the normal rate.

                    This is two Charms in one, because how often do you need to prepare for someone trying to break a specific object later that very scene?

                    Master Craftsman's Eye
                    Cost: 3+m; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 1
                    Type: Reflexive
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: None

                    This Charm allows the Solar to assess a crafted item reflexively. If the Solar receives at least three successes, they immediately recognize the work of anyone who they've met or seen the work of before, and know the name of the item if it has one. If the Solar receives at least five successes, they receive some insight into the nature of the creator and gain at least a loose understanding of any magical properties the item may have.

                    By spending an extra 2m when activating this Charm, the Solar may apply double 8s to their (Perception + Craft) roll.


                    Crack-Mending Technique
                    Agnostic

                    Arete-Shifting Prana
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 1, Essence 1
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: None

                    Upon purchasing this Charm, the Solar gains two additional Craft specialties for each Craft specialty they have. Further specialties may be purchased for 1xp, and take one third of the normal time to train.

                    A Solar with at least 12 Craft specialties may repurchase this Charm to trade their Craft specialties for a universal specialty that applies to all uses of the Craft skill.
                    If they lose more than 12 specialties this way, they gain 1xp for each extra specialty lost.

                    Truly universal crafting should be possible for Solars, and I considered making it automatic. If you want to let anyone do any kind of crafting, I don't think anything will break.

                    I also considered making a Charm that lets you buy other Craft Charms for half price by limiting them to a specific field. Decided not to partly because this Charm list is long enough, and partly because it seemed abusable.

                    Benevolent Worker's Joy
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites:
                    Crack-Mending Technique, Craftsman Needs No Tools, and Supreme Masterwork Focus

                    The Solar draws strength from their good works. The first time they use Craft to help someone else each day, they gain a point of willpower unless they're already at or above their maximum willpower. In addition, while using Craft to help people they recover motes as though they were resting. The power of this Charm comes from the satisfaction of helping others, so fixing your own problems provides no willpower and neither does giving people "help" that they neither want nor need.

                    Awe-Inspiring Feats Of Craft
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: Benevolent Worker's Joy

                    Whenever the Solar uses Craft to help another character, that character develops a minor positive Intimacy towards the Solar. A character who wishes to resist this may do so at no cost, but most people don't. The context of the Intimacy is usually respect or gratitude, but it can be anything positive. At the ST's discretion, a character who would've developed a minor Intimacy in response to the Solar's work without this Charm may develop a major Intimacy instead.

                    These two are for people who liked the whole "get rewarded for doing odd jobs" angle in the canonical system. I think willpower and Intimacies are more logical and more interesting rewards than crafting xp.

                    The Craft Of War
                    Cost: 4m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Reflexive
                    Keywords: Decisive-only, Agnostic
                    Duration: One scene
                    Prerequisites: Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    The Solar treats the battlefield as a workshop, forging chains to bind enemies and taking apart weapons as they are raised to strike. While this Charm is active, the Solar may use Dexterity + Craft to "attack" when attempting gambits. The Solar doubles 10s on the Initiative roll when doing so. Gambits enacted with this Charm represent battlefield applications of the Craft skill, and as such some gambits are not possible with this Charm while others are not possible without it. Solars with this Charm active are encouraged to include minor acts of craftsmanship when stunting their combat rolls, and do not need to activate Craftsman Needs No Tools to do so or to attempt Craft gambits.

                    Again, I want you to use Craft while adventuring. I should probably provide some examples of crafting gambits but...eh. Don't wanna.


                    Tireless Workhorse Method
                    Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    While this Charm is active, the Solar may apply the effects of Craftsman Needs No Tools to every Craft roll they make.

                    At Essence 3+, a Solar who's using assistants in order to get work done faster may also increase the speed of those assistants with this Charm.

                    Gaze Of The Great Maker
                    Cost: 8m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Reflexive
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Master Craftsman's Eye

                    As long as this Charm is active, the Solar may reflexively assess any crafted item they can perceive. They receive the benefits of the 5 mote version of Master Craftsman's Eye when they do so.

                    This exists mainly because I want my Craft Solar to be capable of it. Glance at a disguised Sidereal assassin, notice that his boots were made by a craft-god, get suspicious. Hopefully it's not too much work for the ST.


                    This Charm and its prereq overlap a bit with certain Lore Charms, but really assessing crafting items seems like a Craft thing to me so I think it's the Lore Charms that should change.

                    Chaos-Resistance Preparation

                    New prerequisite is Durability-Enhancing Technique

                    Words As Workshop Method
                    Cost: 2+m; Mins: Craft 3, Essence 2
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to build a non-magical object. It allows the Solar to work without materials, creating constructs of glowing Essence. Objects created this way are obviously unnatural, and last only as long as the Solar keeps the cost of this Charm committed. Food and water created this way aren't real enough to nourish.

                    This Charm may also be used to supplement repair attempts, replacing non-magical missing components with glowing Essence. Repairs enacted this way likewise last only as long as the committed motes.

                    This Charm costs 2 motes when making something small and cheap, like a spoon or a cup. It costs 5 motes when making something a bit larger or more valuable, like a shirt or a spear. It costs 10 motes when making something big or complicated, like a tent or a compass. It costs 20 motes when creating something very big, complex, or valuable, like a catapult, a pearl necklace, or a hut. It can't create anything bigger than a hut or more valuable than a diamond.


                    Not sure about the costing here.

                    Thousand-Forge Hands
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    This Charm reduces the interval of Artifact-crafting rolls made by the Solar. They can roll for a 2-dot Artifact once a week or four times a session, for a 3-or-4-dot Artifact once every two weeks or twice a session, and for a 5-dot or Legendary Artifact once a month or once a session.

                    I have no problem with this Charm as written, but I needed to make it fit the new system.

                    Breach-Healing Method
                    Cost: 7m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: One task
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Example

                    As the Solar builds or repairs something with Craft, everyone watching sees their work with vastly increased clarity and understanding. Characters who watch this way add the Solar's Essence to their Craft, Lore, Occult, and Medicine rolls for as long as they remain within Short range. This bonus does not apply to Shape Sorcery or Sorcerous Working rolls.

                    I like the idea of this Charm as written but some parts of it don't sit right with me. Particularly the rigidly-defined radius: it feels mechanistic to me, and creates weird huddles.


                    Design Beyond Limit
                    Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Crack-Mending Technique, Craftsman Needs No Tools

                    The Solar spends (10 - Essence) hours reforging an Artifact with Evocations in her workshop. When she's done, the Artifact's wielder gains access to an additional Evocation from that Artifact that they qualify for for as long as the Solar keeps the mote cost of this Charm committed. At any time while this Charm is active, the Artifact's wielder may pay the xp cost of the Evocation to learn it permanently.

                    This Charm may only be used once per Artifact per story.

                    Half training time remover, half Power-Awarding Prana. Charms like this always make a little nervous but I think this one is okay.

                    First Movement Of The Demiurge
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: Supreme Masterwork Focus, Flawless Handiwork Method x2

                    For every set of three 7s, three 8s, or three 9s rolled when attempting to craft an artifact or manse, the Solar may change one non-success die to a 10. If using Flawless Handiwork Method, the Solar may reroll those dice and use successes rolled on them to form more sets of three and convert more failed dice to 10s.

                    Essence-Forging Kata
                    New prerequisite is First Movement Of The Demiurge

                    The Art Of Permanence
                    Cost: 6m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Chaos-Resistance Preparation

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to create or repair something. If it succeeds, the object will endure forever. The Wyld will never twist it and it will only ever be damaged by overwhelming traumatic events like explosions and avalanches. If it naturally consumes itself when used, like a candle, it will somehow last forever anyway. In addition, the object will be indelibly marked by the Solar's touch. The Solar will always recognize it as their own work, even after dying and reincarnating, and if they claim responsibility for it others will instinctively know the claim to be true.

                    The Solar may also spend 1m when creating or repairing something without this Charm, to eternally mark it as their own work.

                    This Charm may not be used to enhance food, medicine, or chemicals.


                    Anima Forge Technique
                    Cost: (+1wp or more); Mins: Craft 4, Essence 3
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: Words As Workshop Method

                    This Charm enhances its prerequisite. When using Words As Workshop Method, the Solar may create a normal object rather than a construct of glowing Essence. This costs a number of points of willpower equal to a quarter of the mote cost of Words As Workshop Method rounded up. Objects created this way are permanent and require no mote commitment.

                    Note: Some people don't like seeing this effect in Solar Craft. You should feel free to leave it out if you're one of them. Nothing will break if you don't allow it. I like it, though, and it's pretty important to my vision for Solar Craft, so I'm not taking it out.

                    Craftsman Needs No Tools, Words As Workshop Method, and Anima Forge Technique are at the core of my attempt to emphasize the use of Craft on adventures. If you don't need tools or materials, it really opens up a lot of options. Some bastard hiding in a castle? A catapult appears! Lost in the desert? Create a compass, a tent, and a nutritious meal! Poor? A diamond ring is only a few Charm activations away!


                    Celestial Reforging Technique
                    Cost: 15m, 2wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Design Beyond Limit

                    The Solar spends (10 - Essence) hours reforging an Artifact or group of Artifacts with Evocations in her workshop. When she's done, she can dissolve any number of Evocations into experience and spend that experience to buy other, different, Evocations. At the Storyteller's discretion, the Solar may also make changes to the structure and themes of the Artifacts. These changes can't alter the basic effects of the Artifact (unless the Storyteller sees fit to make an exception) but can change the Evocations available to it.

                    This Charm may only be used once per story. It may be activated alongside its prerequisite.

                    Solar Tony Stark should be able to reconfigure his armour. And if he kills the Mask of Winters, and forges the Deathlord's body into his suit, he should be able to get some ghostly Evocations by doing so.

                    Divine Inspiration Technique
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 4
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: First Movement Of The Demiurge, Supreme Masterwork Focus x3

                    For every three successes rolled on an attempt to craft an artifact or manse, the Solar may roll an additional non-Charm die. This effect is recursive; each time successes acquired from the new dice raise the total success count above a new multiple of three, roll another die. These dice are fully compatible with First Movement Of The Demiurge and any other Charms used to enhance the Craft roll.

                    You don't need tons of Artifact-making Charms to make 5-dot Artifacts. You only need tons if you want to mass-produce 5-dot Artifacts. And I don't want that to be possible, so cutting down the Power section was a no-brainer.

                    Considered making Divine Inspiration Technique only apply to Artifact 4+ projects, but I decided it was more Solar to be amazing at both small Artifacts and big ones.

                    Also considered replacing the dice shenanigans with simpler stuff, but people seem to like shenanigans. So I left them in.


                    Vice-Miracle Technique
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 5
                    Type: Reflexive
                    Keywords: None
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Divine Inspiration Technique

                    One per story, the Solar may produce a complete two-dot Artifact of their own design. This Charm works by revealing a side project that the Solar finished while working on other Artifacts, and as such in order to use Vice-Miracle Technique the Solar must have finished an Artifact normally since the last time they used it.


                    Specialization Charms

                    Glorious Solar Chef
                    Cost: 4m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 2, Essence 1
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: One day
                    Prerequisites: A specialty in cooking, baking, or something similar

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to make food. If the attempt succeeds, it allows the Solar to make an attempt to inspire happiness with (Charisma + Craft), targeting everyone who eats what they've made. Anyone other than the Solar who's affected by this regains a point of willpower, up to a limit of half their normal maximum, once per day.

                    With a suitable stunt, the Solar may attempt to inspire something other than happiness with this Charm. Those affected by attempts to instill other emotions may or may not regain willpower, at the ST's discretion.

                    Normally this Charm may only enhance enough food to feed five people. At Essence 2+, the Solar may spend an extra 3m to enhance enough food for a few dozen, and at Essence 3+ they may spend an extra 6m to enhance enough food for hundreds.

                    If we want a Solar cook to feel really different from a Solar sculptor, we should give them different Charms. Therefore, this.

                    Helps with the whole Craft-isn't-just-about-Artifacts thing too.


                    Perfect Gemcutter's Art
                    Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 1
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method, a specialty in gemcutting

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to cut and polish a gem. If the attempt is successful, the gem shines with light from within. The brightness of the glow depends on the value of the gem; a flawed quartz might only glow visibly in the dark, while a large and flawless diamond might be painful to look at. Gems cut this way glow until destroyed, and can easily become famous treasures or precious heirlooms.

                    Pretty narrow, but I love the image. And if you think about it, it can be surprisingly useful.

                    Gemcutters might also get a Charm for destroying Hearthstones quickly and easily, or for modifying the effect that a Hearthstone provides.


                    Cloth Of Steel
                    Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 1
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites:
                    Durability-Enhancing Technique, a specialty in tailoring

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to make a set of clothes. If the attempt succeeds, the clothes benefit from the effects of
                    Durability-Enhancing Technique and count as light mundane armour. They look almost identical to normal clothes; a difficulty 5 roll is needed to notice their supernatural durability. When making unusually heavy clothing, the sort that might incur a mobility penalty, the Solar may instead have them count as medium mundane armour.

                    Arrows Of The Dawn
                    Cost: 2+m; Mins: Craft 2, Essence 1
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: A specialty in weaponsmithing or woodworking

                    For two motes, the Solar creates a magical arrow which flies truer and pierces deeper than any normal arrow. As long as the Solar keeps their motes committed, an arrow enhanced with this Charm adds 1 die to any attack roll made with it. A withering attack made with it also adds 2 damage and 1 minimum damage, while a decisive attack or gambit made with it doubles 10s on the Initiative roll.

                    A Solar who knows Phantom Arrow Technique may add 1m to this Charm's cost to create the arrow without tools or materials. Once per story, if they can use the Adamant Arrow Technique, they may apply it to an arrow enhanced with this Charm. Once the arrow has been fired, it then remains inviolate even after the Solar removes the motes from this Charm.

                    A Solar who knows Wise Arrow, Fiery Arrow Attack, Force Without Fire, or There Is No Wind may add the effects of those Charms to arrows enhanced with this Charm. Doing so also adds the cost of the Charm or Charms in question to that of this Charm.

                    Sticking Charms in arrows is pretty pointless if you intend to shoot the arrows yourself, but it's great if you're making the arrows for an ally.

                    Ideally, this rewrite should make Craft more appealing as a secondary ability for characters who don't specialize in it...like archers, for example.

                    Instantaneous Architecture Technique
                    Cost: 12m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Words As Workshop Method, a specialty in architecture

                    The Solar conjures an entire structure from their Essence. A house, a bridge, a wall - all can be created in a moment with this Charm. Structures created this way resemble the products of Words As Workshop Method, and disappear when the Solar withdraws their mote commitment. Roll Intelligence + Craft to determine the quality of the created structure if it becomes relevant.

                    This Charm is sometimes used to create walls in battle. A wall created this way may be climbed with a miscellaneous action and a difficulty 2 (Dexterity or Strength + Athletics) roll or smashed down with a Strength 10+, difficulty 15 feat of strength. Going around one takes two reflexive move actions. If the Solar chooses to wrap the wall around themself, they may form a cell that can't be entered without breaking through. This often ends a fight, but it's a delaying strategy only.

                    Structures created this way cannot be larger than an average house or a narrow bridge across a wide river. With a repurchase at Essence 4+, however, the Solar can spend an additional 13m to create something as large as a palace or a wall that encircles a town.

                    This is actually the idea that started this whole project. Not sure how I got from here from this.

                    Twilight Chemistry
                    Cost: 10m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic, Stackable
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method, a specialty in alchemy

                    This Charm is a two-hour-long action in which the Solar brews a magical chemical from ingredients found in any respectable alchemical laboratory. With multiple activations of this Charm, the Solar may create multiple chemicals or multiple doses of the same chemical at the same time. Chemicals produced this way last for (Essence) weeks or until used.

                    Upon learning this Charm, the Solar gains access to three formulas. They may purchase more for 3xp apiece, selecting from the list below or inventing their own.

                    Sovereign Glue: A nearly perfect adhesive. It's waterproof, heatproof, lasts forever, can stick anything to anything, and requires a Strength 10+ difficulty 15 feat of strength to pull apart.

                    Alkahest: A universal solvent, capable of eating through any nonmagical material except glass. The amount produced is enough to destroy a finger-sized amount of matter. Being exposed to it is an environmental hazard with damage 5L, difficulty to resist 5. It may be delivered to an enemy with a difficulty 2 gambit. However, unless stored in packaging that takes a miscellaneous action to open, the vial will break and expose its carrier to its effects whenever that carrier takes falling damage or more than six dice of bashing damage.

                    The Spit Of Hesiesh: A potent incendiary that ignites when exposed to air. It burns for only a few seconds, but gives off as much heat as a bonfire. If used in combat, it has the same statistics as Alkahest.

                    The Philosopher's Stone: A grey rocky substance that, when rubbed into base metal, transforms it to gold. One dose can produce about an ounce of gold.

                    Adorjan's Blood: A foul-tasting liquid that fills its drinker with a strange mixture of rage and glee. A character who drinks a full dose has a Major Principle of "violence is wonderful", feels no fear whatsoever, reduces their wound penalties and defenses by 1, and adds 1 to their withering accuracy and damage. A dose may also be diluted, giving a Minor Principle to up to twenty people. A battle group can't hold together under the effects of a diluted dose unless it has Elite Drill, in which case it gains Perfect Morale at the cost of Poor Drill. It's pretty difficult to dose an unwilling target with Adorjan's Blood, but if it happens resisting a full dose is difficulty 3 and resisting a diluted dose is difficulty 1 using (Stamina + Resistance or Integrity).

                    Powdered Death: A tasteless and odorless poison with the following traits: damage 3L/hour, duration 5 hours, penalty -1, vector ingestion. Add 2 to the duration against a mortal. It's surprisingly painless to die this way.

                    Knife-Ice: A weapon poison that makes the affected area feel very very cold. It has the following traits: damage 3i/round (B in Crash), duration 6 rounds, penalty -3, vector damage.

                    Solar Ink: An ink/paint/dye (it works as any of those) that glows in the colour or colours of the maker's choice. It adheres to any material and, once used, will never fade or leak from the page. One dose is a full liter of fluid.

                    Liquid Peace: A silver liquid that causes pain to be felt as a pleasant numbness. It doesn't remove wound penalties, though: the numbness is fairly debilitating. Liquid Peace lasts for about a day for someone who weighs 150 pounds, and can be quite addictive.

                    The Kiss Of Venus: A genuine aphrodisiac. Anyone who takes a doze gains a Minor Intimacy of lust towards everyone. It lasts for about four hours, assuming a 150-pound subject, and can be resisted with a difficulty 2 (Stamina + Resistance or Integrity) if the person taking it isn't willing to experience its effects.

                    Trying to address the whole "one-shot Artifacts aren't really Artifacts" thing. Not sure if I like the result. Balance seems iffy, and it's an unpleasantly long Charm writeup.

                    Then again, I really like the idea of playing a Solar alchemist.


                    Consumption-Demanding Cuisine
                    Cost: 4m; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 2
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Glorious Solar Chef

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to make food. If the attempt succeeds, the Solar rolls (Charisma + Craft) and for as long as the food remains fresh anyone whose Resolve is overcome by the Solar's roll is compelled to eat the Solar's creation as soon as they see or smell it. Resisting this influence costs 2wp. If the food belongs to someone else, is full of broken glass, contains human flesh, is probably poisoned, or is otherwise obviously dangerous or unethical to eat, characters get +2 to their Resolve to avoid eating it and need only spend 1wp to resist the influence.

                    If this Charm is activated alongside its prerequisite, use a single roll for both. A character who resists a use of this Charm is immune to it for the rest of the day.

                    Painted Truth Prana/Philosophy Carved In Stone
                    Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 2
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method, a specialty in painting or sculpture

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to create a painting or a sculpture. If the attempt succeeds, the Solar may roll (Charisma or Manipulation + Craft) as a social influence roll that targets anyone who takes some time to examine the artwork. If the Solar wishes to play on an Intimacy with their art, they must name it as they work. Apart from that, they may deliver any form of social influence in this way.

                    The influential nature of artwork created this way is obvious. Everyone can tell what the message is as long as they're familiar with the relevant characters and concepts. The social influence effect lasts as long as it remains relevant; a painting that instills sadness will remain effective as long as it's intact, but a sculpture that portrays Chejop Kejak as a bumbling fool will lose its effectiveness when Chejop Kejak is dead and nobody remembers what he looked like.

                    Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique
                    Cost: 5m (+1xp); Mins: Craft 4, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic, Stackable
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method, a specialty in sculpture or clockwork

                    The Solar touches a statue of an animal, or a (possibly non-functional) mechanical imitation of an animal, that they've created. It springs to life and remains animate for as long as the Solar keeps their motes committed. An animal created this way is in all ways like a normal animal, except that it can understand its creator's speech, it reliably obeys its creator's instructions, and it looks obviously inanimate. Animals imitated this way must be at least as large as a mouse and no larger than a dog.


                    The Solar may spend a few hours and 1xp when activating this Charm to make it permanent. Animals created this way become Familiars to the Solar. When the animal "dies", the xp cost is refunded.

                    With a Craft 5, Essence 3+ repurchase, the Solar can commit an additional 5m to animate an imitation human or an imitation animal up to the size of a horse or tiger. Imitation humans are intelligent and can talk, but are totally uncreative and have no desires. They use the statistics of the Walking Statue from page 500 of the backer PDF. Animals use standard animal stats. Making a human or a large animal permanent takes a full day and costs 2xp.

                    With a second repurchase at Essence 4, the Solar can commit an additional 15m to animate a size 2 group of imitation humans or a single imitation animal up to the size of a tyrant lizard. Artificial battle groups have Average Drill and Perfect Morale.
                    Making a huge animal permanent takes a week and costs 3xp. Groups of human statues cannot be made permanent.

                    No idea whether this is balanced. Seems weaker than demon-summoning, at least...but then again, it's also less risky. Is building a robot T-rex for 20 committed motes fair?

                    Miraculous Mapmaker Method
                    Cost: 6m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 3, Essence 2
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant or Indefinite
                    Prerequisites: Flawless Handiwork Method, a specialty in mapmaking

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to draw a map. If the attempt is successful, the map has details ten times as fine as it normally would. More supernaturally, the map changes as the area depicted does. A destroyed city disappears, a renamed mountain is relabeled. The map never loses its accuracy over time, though it's sometimes slow to update. The speed of the changes depends on how close the map is to its subject: a map of Creation stored in Nexus will quickly account for a change to Nexus's name, but it might take a while for it to note the sinking of an island in the far West.

                    The effectiveness of this Charm depends on the accuracy of the information provided. A false map will update falsely, preserving its errors. However, a Solar using this Charm has a near-perfect sense for the consistency of the geographical information they're working with. Tricking them into drawing a false map has a difficulty of their Perception + Craft.

                    A Solar may activate this Charm with Indefinite duration to draw a map of an area while exploring it. This removes all penalties for drawing on the move, and gives the Solar or their guide(s) an automatic success on all navigation rolls.

                    With a Craft 4+ Essence 3+ repurchase, maps enhanced with this Charm are improved in the following ways:


                    -As long as the map is in the territory that it depicts, a small mark appears on it showing the map's location. A "you are here" mark.
                    -As long as the map is in the territory that it depicts, it shows the local weather. This ability is limited by distance: a map of Creation, if held in Lookshy, will not show rain on the Blessed Isle.
                    -The map is so perfectly clear that absolutely anyone can understand it. No matter how many complex concepts the Solar depicts, the map is always clearly understandable.
                    -The map may depict an innately unplottable area like the Wyld or the Labyrinth or the world-body of a Primordial. Somehow, whatever spatial inconsistencies the area possesses are perfectly explained by the map.


                    An updating map didn't seem worthy of being a real Artifact, so I made this. Same story as Perfect Gemcutter's Art, actually. Had to add the delay to prevent this thing from being used as a method of communication.

                    Glorious Solar Arsenal
                    Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 2
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: One scene
                    Prerequisites: Words As Workshop Method, a specialty in weaponsmithing

                    The Solar shapes their Essence into a weapon with the traits of an artifact weapon. This Charm may create anything from smashfists to a dragon sigh wand, but if used to create a weapon that uses ammunition it doesn't provide any. The Solar may create the weapon in the hands of another character within Close range, if they so choose. Weapons created this way shine like a torch in the colours of the Solar's anima. They have no Evocations.

                    Glorious Solar Armoury
                    Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 4, Essence 3
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: One scene
                    Prerequisites: Words As Workshop Method, a specialty in armoursmithing

                    The Solar shapes their essence into a suit of armour with the traits of light, medium, or heavy artifact armour. The armour forms around the Solar or a willing character within Close range, and may replace the traits of any existing armour with its own. Armour created this way glows brightly in the colours of the Solar's anima. It has no Evocations, but a character who knows Armoured Scout's Invigoration may activate that Charm for free upon being armoured this way.


                    Forge of the Sun
                    Cost: -; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3
                    Type: Permanent
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Permanent
                    Prerequisites: Glorious Solar Arsenal, Glorious Solar Armoury

                    This Charm enhances its prerequisites, increasing their duration to Indefinite. In addition, it allows the Solar to create multiple weapons or suits of armour with a single activation of either, paying 5m per weapon and 10m per suit of armour. The Solar may even create ammunition while doing so, paying 1m per shot and creating the first piece of ammunition within the weapon it's intended for.

                    Mind-Shattering Culinary Perfection
                    Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3
                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Glorious Solar Chef

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to make food. If the attempt is successful, the resulting food is delicious enough to turn a man into a babbling mess. The Solar rolls (Charisma + Craft) and compares their result to the Resolve of anyone who eats it. Any character whose Resolve is overcome must spend 2wp or be rendered insensate by the sheer perfection of the Solar's cooking (or baking, or whatever). Such a character gains a Defining Intimacy reflecting joy, admiration for the Solar, love of whatever food they ate, or something similar. He can take no useful action unless attacked. At the end of the hour, the Intimacy is reduced to the Major level and he may act normally once again. At the end of the day, it becomes Minor, and from then on it's a normal Intimacy.

                    If this Charm is activated alongside its prerequisite, use a single roll for both.

                    Heavily inspired by this bit from Girl Genius.

                    Attention-Demanding Artwork
                    Cost: 4m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3

                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Instant
                    Prerequisites: Painted Truth Prana/Philosophy Carved In Stone

                    This Charm supplements an attempt to create a painting or a sculpture. If the attempt succeeds, the Solar may roll (Charisma or Manipulation + Craft). Anyone whose Resolve is less than half the Solar's successes is unable to walk past the artwork without stopping to examine it unless they've already done so. In addition, anyone whose Resolve is less than the Solar's successes is unable to destroy the artwork or allow it to be destroyed. Spending 1 willpower allows a character to ignore the art or an attempt to destroy it, while spending 3 willpower allows a character to deliberately destroy the artwork.

                    If this Charm is activated alongside its prerequisite, the Solar rolls only once. If multiple pieces of art enhanced with this Charm are present in a scene, a character may resist the effects of them all by spending willpower once.


                    Omniscient Surveyor Meditation
                    Cost: 15m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 4

                    Type: Supplemental
                    Keywords: Agnostic
                    Duration: Until the map is finished
                    Prerequisites: Miraculous Mapmaker Method x2

                    This Charm allows the Solar to draw a map of an area they know nothing about. The Solar rolls Perception + Craft, and obtains information based on the result. One success gives the knowledge of an ordinary person from the area, three successes gives the knowledge of an educated and well-traveled person from the area, and five successes gives the knowledge of an extremely competent professional cartographer from the area. Further successes reveal forgotten secrets, or expands the map to include more information than any single mortal could know about the area.

                    The effectiveness of this Charm depends on how mysterious the area is. Five successes can tell a Solar everything they need to know about an ordinary city, but if used on the Labyrinth it will only reveal a small area. This Charm never gives false information, and the information it leaves out is never particularly misleading. Knowledge acquired by this Charm flows directly from the universe into the map the Solar is drawing, and never touches the Solar's conscious mind.

                    This Charm may only be used once per story per area.


                    Dual Magus Prana
                    Cost: 15m; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 5
                    Type: Simple
                    Keywords: Stackable
                    Duration: Indefinite
                    Prerequisites:
                    Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique x3, Divine Inspiration Technique

                    The Solar creates a duplicate of themself. The duplicate is controlled by the Solar's mind and animated by their Essence, so it's not really possible for both original and copy to act simultaneously. But the Solar can use all of their abilities through their duplicate, and telling the difference between original and copy is difficulty 10.
                    They can essentially be in two places at once, sharing a mind and an essence pool between two bodies. The duplicate is good enough to fool almost all magical tests, but not the Eye of the Unconquered Sun.

                    The Solar may create more than one duplicate when activating this Charm, by simply committing 15 motes multiple times. However, they may only create one batch of duplicates per story.

                    Considered dropping this entirely, but I realized it was a great fit for this tree so I tried to include a version that avoided some of the original's issues. Not sure if I succeeded.


                    Let me know what you think.
                    Last edited by Sanctaphrax; 07-22-2016, 12:55 AM.


                    EX3 Craft Rewrite

                    Sanctaphrax is not a person
                    -Chejop Kejak

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                    • #85
                      I don't have time at the moment to do a detailed review, but I love 95% of what you've done here!

                      Are you going to edit the OP with the up to date information? Or do you maybe have a google doc or something shareable with up to date information?

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                      • #86
                        Thanks.

                        I should probably make a google doc or a wiki page or something, but so far I've been too lazy.

                        The core rules in post #2 are up to date. The most recent Charmset is in post #84. Was going to edit it into post #3, but I realized that it'd be confusing for people reading the thread for the first time if I did.


                        EX3 Craft Rewrite

                        Sanctaphrax is not a person
                        -Chejop Kejak

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                        • #87
                          i really like most of the new charms you've got here, my only issue that i could put my thoughts in order about right now would have to be your new version of aerie shifting prana. i understand that you want to make it like lore where its specializations rather than having to completely repurchase the skill, but letting people have complete mastery of craft seems too powerful, and its a little bit of a like, how do i put it, if you succeed at becoming the absolute master of all crafting then what motivates you to learn more crafting.
                          in lore there is a charm that just lets you gain a new specialization in lore at the end of every story, and rather than having a repurchase that lets you have complete mastery it would be nice to nerf it a bit and have it give a free specialization at the end of every story.
                          making it so that you can purchase new specializations at 1 xp is cool though, i wish they had that as part of the lore charm too.


                          Elemental and dragon line descriptors and capturing device coming soon
                          Craft Rewrite W/ Points, Slots, and Charms
                          Executive Leadership Organization Merrit

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
                            Thanks.

                            I should probably make a google doc or a wiki page or something, but so far I've been too lazy.

                            The core rules in post #2 are up to date. The most recent Charmset is in post #84. Was going to edit it into post #3, but I realized that it'd be confusing for people reading the thread for the first time if I did.
                            May I suggest adding a link in the first post (or #3)? Something along the lines of "Most Recent charm-set found in post #84".


                            Besides that, I like where you're going with this. I have a player that really likes the idea of combat crafting. I was thinking of making them gambits, and it seems you had the same idea.
                            Last edited by Primefactorx01; 01-28-2016, 12:23 PM.

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                            • #89
                              Good idea, done.


                              EX3 Craft Rewrite

                              Sanctaphrax is not a person
                              -Chejop Kejak

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by norraba View Post
                                i really like most of the new charms you've got here, my only issue that i could put my thoughts in order about right now would have to be your new version of aerie shifting prana. i understand that you want to make it like lore where its specializations rather than having to completely repurchase the skill, but letting people have complete mastery of craft seems too powerful, and its a little bit of a like, how do i put it, if you succeed at becoming the absolute master of all crafting then what motivates you to learn more crafting.
                                That was in the old version, actually. I just turned two Charms into two purchases of one Charm.

                                Anyway, I don't really understand the complaint. Someone with Melee 5 has mastered every conceivable melee weapon, but there's still plenty of motivation to learn more Melee stuff. Why should it be different here?

                                And I'm pretty sure it's not gonna break the game. You need 12 specialties to buy it, so you need to already have learned a ton of fields. And after spending 8-10 xp to go from 12 to all, you...still can't do anything super-powerful. You can do more things, sure, but none of the new things you can do is particularly special.

                                PS: You reminded me I missed an edit to Arete-Shifting Prana. Thanks for that. You can't lose specialties by taking it anymore.
                                PPS: I added links to my Lunar and Sidereal Craft sketches to the third post.


                                EX3 Craft Rewrite

                                Sanctaphrax is not a person
                                -Chejop Kejak

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