Hey there, as I've told you in pm me and my favorite ST tried your overhaul/rewrite, enjoyed most of it and modified what we didn't like or agree with, or simply preferred differently.
I'd like to share our findings/conclusions to let people know how it worked out in our games as well as get feedback so that we might further adjust or revert things we didn't think through well enough.
I'm also in the process of writing a session by session report in the manner that Solstice did, since I found that very helpful in understanding his position, but I won't have it finished today and we'll be rather busy the next couple of days, so I decided to share what we have already:
We played two different 1on1 games, one with about 6 hours of playtime and the other.... well, by now beyond 20 hours.
Some rambling about the first game:
Some rambling about the second game:
Please consider this to be constructive criticism, as well as a "this works better for us, we're not saying it's bad" even if at points I forget to make an effort to make it sound friendly. Any other tone besides friendly is not intended, but I'm tired and can't be bothered to double check what I've written down yesterday. I also apologize if I repeat myself.
Basic system:
We decided not to use specialties the way you did. Our method is a slightly more complicated affair for a simple reason.
Instead of using specialties to represent what craft you have mastered, we use a system like Lore topics, except that you have to pay for them the same way you would in your version. The only things that change are how you write them down, and the +1 dice.
This way, specialties keep their “say something about the character” use, which we felt was watered down once you got a bunch of craft specialties.
One would obviously adjust the specialty charms' prerequisites accordingly.
Difficulty and goal numbers:
We decided to use the basic rules in regards to time, terminus, difficulty and even crafting slots. We both feel strongly about keeping the difficulty in the new edition of Exalted capped to 5 in most cases and didn't feel more rolls would add anything for us.
Introducing workshops and assistants as something that matters, appeals to us but we're unsure how to.
For now we went with:
Workshop:
5 rolls for a basic workshop, with all the standard tools. However, manses and extremely large Artifacts may require large numbers of labourers as part of the “workshop”.
6 rolls for a master's workshop, which contains a high-quality example of every tool a normal craftsman in the field would ever want. A character using Craftsman Needs No Tools has this level of workshop for most projects.
6 rolls, +1 Non-Charm die for a supernaturally excellent workshop. These are rare in Creation, but a few Dynasts and gods and other stranger things have them.
Fiat-level modifiers for one of the legendary First Age factory-cathedrals.
Materials:
-1 rolls for having to stretch a bit of magical material or using wondrous ingredients that “kinda” fit.
Unmodified rolls for having some magical material and/or a few thematically appropriate wondrous ingredients.
+1 rolls for having plenty of magical materials and/or at least one genuinely impressive wondrous ingredient.
+2 rolls for having an embarrassing surplus of suitable ingredients or something that is simply perfect for the intended task.
Fiat-level modifiers for having something that makes the ST say "holy shit".
Bonuses (Once, not per interval):
-1 goal number for working with a master assistant or a team of competent workers.
-1*artifact level goal number for working with supernaturally excellent help. Sometimes such helpers will have Charms that provide bonuses above and beyond this one.
-2 goal number roll for having an Ability related to the Artifact at 5, or at 3 with a relevant specialty.
-2 goal number for having a Charm, spell, anima power, or other magical ability that's related to the Artifact.
Being able to earn more rolls by asking the ST what you'd have to do to make that happen seems interesting. We never had it actually come up, but pretended it happened twice, just to try it out and it seems reasonable.
The same goes for having materials or something left over, if you finish early.
In our Egypt game we defaulted to your building something creating a new, but weaker and very specific mystical ingredient in the process.
I have no idea if that would work for most games, but it ended up becoming a major plot point in our game, with a guild of alchemists being founded just to find out how to optimize this process and maybe even find a way to synthesize some of the materials.
In our game so far this worked alright, though things sometimes felt a bit weak, when we tried higher numbers it felt like it quickly got out of hand.
We didn’t like the “just take more time to get it done” options. While certainly valid from a in-game perspective, I don’t think anyone actually enjoys taking that option. But lots of people might take it, because it's strong. It might become especially screwy if you stick to the numbers from the book, which in the end we decided to go with.
We also used the rules form the basic system for time you need to invest as well as roll intervals, since we had no disagreement with that part of the system. After having tried both saw no clear winner, so we stuck to the original. We did vastly prefer being able to craft in "downtime" even though the characters I played both spent noticeable time on crafting, the option to instead go pursue another part of the story, without having a project stagnate completely, was pleasant.
Taking into account another game with a full group I play a crafter in, I really can't imagine giving up the "you get to craft and do other stuff" anymore.
The charms and what we did with them:
I'll only adress the ones we modified.
Supreme Masterwork Focus
Normal costs need to be replaced, but this seems excessive. It’s easy to make your anima shoot high with this, but I have no idea what to replace it with.
Our solution has been to make the third purchase cost 8m, 1wp rather than 10m, 1wp. We also added Mute to this charm at it’s third level.
After a few sessions with this, it started to feel unnecessarily complicated. We concluded to just ditch the idea of having to pay for removed craft xp with motes and then trying to make part of the problems it creates (anima display, higher mote drain) go away. We still felt it ought to cost more than in the backer pdf, but trying to make things balanced led to us overcharging this charm at first.
A three charm repurchase is a high enough cost, so we lowered the cost to 3m, 1wp (1m higher than originally) and didn’t give it mute.
Three sessions later we felt we had found the right balance, at least for our games.
Flawless Example
We tampered around with the cost a bit, while we were adjusting Supreme Masterwork Focus, but in the end realized the problem wasn’t with this charms price in motes.
We were thinking about requiring the object to have some minimum successes threshold, but decided against it. If you want to craft a 1 success item and have people copy it perfectly with two successes, why the hell not? It’s slightly funky, mechanically, but nothing’s going to break.
PS: We love this charm.
Object Strengthening Touch
We completely agree, we merely chose the other name (Durability-Enhancing Technique), since it felt weird to me to have a crafter and not have a charm by that name.
While I personally don’t miss Object-Strengthening Touch, I would consider buying it as an upgrade to Durability-Enhancing Technique. Perhaps upgrade the size of the object as well as the base resistance to the value you already suggest in your version, as well as giving you the option of using Object Strengthening Touch (giving it the values DET would normally have)?
Master Craftsman's Eye
Changed the cost to 3m without double 8, 5m as is. Confident this is fine.
Arete-Shifting Prana
Among the gained specialties, the ones lost should be represented, unless the story warrants such a radical shift.
Supreme Celestial Focus
Very strong, but we approve strongly. I think this should be a repurchase, since repurchases feel less bad than having a “dead” charm, even though technically nothing is different, apart from the phrasing.
Benevolent Worker's Joy
Those are a lot of prerequisites. Wouldn’t two of those suffice?
We thoroughly love the mote regen while helping. It’s such a small thing, but it feels great.
Awe-Inspiring Feats Of Craft
Introduce an alternative cost for resisting the positive Intimacy?
There definitively should be a way to resist, that doesn’t cost wp, since you can’t say “no” (like you could with the lore training charms for example).
Maybe develop a negative one, (possibly of resentment? Jealousy?) towards the item constructed or repaired instead of paying a wp?
The Craft Of War
Require Craftsman needs no tools or similar power or artifact to be active, to use? Unsure about this.
If we decide in favor of it, make these two charms activate at the same time, despite both being simple, and make CNNT last for that battle.
I really wanted to try this, but it simply didn't come up in our games beyond a single scene in the first of the games, which just doesn't feel like enough to conclude anything.
Tireless Workhorse Method
Left this charm as well as CNNT as they were.
Made this an upgrade option of CNNT at essence 2.
CNNT doesn’t really address how you speed your work, so I don’t think the essence 3 upgrade is actually necessary.
Gaze Of The Great Maker
Very strong, but again we approve strongly, but would make it a repurchase.
This should get a similar condition as the awareness charms that let you regain the committed motes.
I see this as a good thing not just for the player, but for the ST. You take away any reason the player would have not to have this charm on at all times, after he’s been using it long enough for you to assume he’s using it, at all times. Once you get used to it in your descriptions. I think it preferable to not have the player decide he’d rather have 10m for the upcoming scene, since this is one of those things you start to count on as a ST.
I thought that was actually a pretty ingenious decision the writers made with the Awareness charms.
Words As Workshop Method
Not sure about the costs, either. We went with 2m>3m>6m>15m
A catapult should be it’s own category, easily costing 20m and available from essence 3 or 4 on.
Thousand-Forge Hands
Since we settled on using the old numbers, as well as Slots, after having played around with the ones suggested in the original rewrite, we simply went back to the version in the book.
Breach-Healing Method
On one hand I like the idea of the charm, but I think this is too good and lasts too long, without being limited to a specific thing it is for. The people watching are simply inspired, rather than inspired as long as they aid or emulate you.
I think I would prefer a Tiger-Warrior/Sea-Devil equivalent to this.
With a limitation of “what they glean from your crafting must make narrative sense” it seems to work (maybe even as intended ?) but I really don’t know how to keep this balanced.
IF you use the charm as is, it should also apply to shape sorcery and sorcerous workings. I see no reason to exclude them.
Design Beyond Limit
We agree that we should wait on the rewrite.
First Movement Of The Demiurge
Since we settled on using the old numbers, as well as Slots, after having played around with the ones suggested in the original rewrite, we simply went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, simply kicking that charm’s craft xp cost and increasing the activation cost by 1wp.
Seems easily worth it, under the original craft systems numbers, not sure if it’d be worth it in the rewrite.
Essence-Forging Kata
We went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, while adding a 1wp cost to the charm.
Eternal Bulwark Of Order
Kinda underwhelming. We’ll revisit this once we have actual wyld rules.
The Art Of Permanence
While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, this, to me, crosses the line of what should be possible.
Maybe if it was limited in a specific way. I think I see less of a problem creating a ladder from materials very unsuited to it rather than making the essence constructs entirely real. A ladder of sand? A sword of paper? Kinda works, especially if it’s temporary (which you might be able to make permanent with the original version of this charm, or Object Strengthening Touch/Durability-Enhancing Technique).
But *poof* stuff, feels a bit too sorcery to me, which is why I’d rather not have it be able of doing this.
Also, I very much like the original charm, so we’ve reintroduced it.
In this version of this charm, Durability-Enhancing Technique is added as a prerequisite.
Divine Inspiration Technique
Reintroduced Unwinding Gyre Meditation. What you lose & gain seems balanced towards each other if you simply pull out the craft xp as cost as well as reward.
Also, only way to gain additional intervals I am aware of.
Painted Truth Prana/Philosophy Carved In Stone
I’d change the attributes to the same that are used for written social attacks, so basically any attribute.
Dual Magus Prana
A version of this might a good prerequisite charm for Dual-Magnus prana, we really don’t want that charm to go. We think it is a great tool for players in a system without Hero points, Edge or Fate to be able to invest deep enough to have this one chance.
We'd rather go with a xp investment over motes, but one could easily allow that as an option, with the same conditions for regaining the xp as you'd have with survival or war charms.
Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique
&
Life From The Workshop
&
Stone Legion Construction/Mechanical Legion Construction
These just didn't work for what we wanted them for. Maybe an xp cost, here too? They might be worth it for someone who is a pure crafter, and nothing else, but for characters that need their motes in battle, these charms are very unimpressive to use. We haven't come up with anything beyond the merit we are already using in games before your system, but we do intend to give these another look over. The ability to temporarily create living statues, walking armours and so on is tempting.
I'd like to share our findings/conclusions to let people know how it worked out in our games as well as get feedback so that we might further adjust or revert things we didn't think through well enough.
I'm also in the process of writing a session by session report in the manner that Solstice did, since I found that very helpful in understanding his position, but I won't have it finished today and we'll be rather busy the next couple of days, so I decided to share what we have already:
We played two different 1on1 games, one with about 6 hours of playtime and the other.... well, by now beyond 20 hours.
Some rambling about the first game:
The first was an insane Twilight trying to mirror an unhinged Agatha Heterodyne from Girl Genius in abilities, but as a washed out sorcerer-engineer guy from Lookshye.
We played about 6 hours with the Sanctaphraxian craft system and had lots of fun, though we found ourselves turning to the merit I posted earlier in this thread after about two hours. While we agreed one could probably adjust the clockwork/statue/homonculi charms to work for this concept, we wanted to just keep playing and leave things as they were for the most part.
The charms Living Statue Genesis and Stone Legion Construction simply didn't allow for a character who starts surrounding himself with clockwork constructs of varying utility, unless you create all of those as one big project for Stone Legion. One also might argue that you could have up to a size 3 group of servants that all are different and animated per Stone Legion, which we tried for a bit, but the motes quickly felt not quite worth it, though the ability to create life itself was fun to have at a moment's notice.
We played about 6 hours with the Sanctaphraxian craft system and had lots of fun, though we found ourselves turning to the merit I posted earlier in this thread after about two hours. While we agreed one could probably adjust the clockwork/statue/homonculi charms to work for this concept, we wanted to just keep playing and leave things as they were for the most part.
The charms Living Statue Genesis and Stone Legion Construction simply didn't allow for a character who starts surrounding himself with clockwork constructs of varying utility, unless you create all of those as one big project for Stone Legion. One also might argue that you could have up to a size 3 group of servants that all are different and animated per Stone Legion, which we tried for a bit, but the motes quickly felt not quite worth it, though the ability to create life itself was fun to have at a moment's notice.
Some rambling about the second game:
The second character was an ancient Egypt inspired Twilight, who had to step in after the pharaoh she served was killed. The only gods of her country that cared to offer an opinion agreed she'd be their best representative (Allies & Influence).
This character was foremost worried with taking over things and keeping the country running, while affecting change in a society that values tradition like gold. The only craft this character had was architecture, which presented an interesting contrast to the other character.
In this game we implemented the things we thought needed changing to account for our own playstyle and preferences. Some didn't work and we reverted back, most we are happy with.
From statues that defend the country to talking obelisks that help people find their way and shield them from the sun for a day this game forced me to go about crafting a very different way, especially since it always involved commissioning workers to get the monumental artifacts in place.
We did consider creating a specialty charm that is basically a copy of the alchemy charm, but for lesser mystical effects one might want regularly for architecture, but didn't do this, so we could keep trying out the basic system (and later on, our changes).
This character was foremost worried with taking over things and keeping the country running, while affecting change in a society that values tradition like gold. The only craft this character had was architecture, which presented an interesting contrast to the other character.
In this game we implemented the things we thought needed changing to account for our own playstyle and preferences. Some didn't work and we reverted back, most we are happy with.
From statues that defend the country to talking obelisks that help people find their way and shield them from the sun for a day this game forced me to go about crafting a very different way, especially since it always involved commissioning workers to get the monumental artifacts in place.
We did consider creating a specialty charm that is basically a copy of the alchemy charm, but for lesser mystical effects one might want regularly for architecture, but didn't do this, so we could keep trying out the basic system (and later on, our changes).
Please consider this to be constructive criticism, as well as a "this works better for us, we're not saying it's bad" even if at points I forget to make an effort to make it sound friendly. Any other tone besides friendly is not intended, but I'm tired and can't be bothered to double check what I've written down yesterday. I also apologize if I repeat myself.
Basic system:
We decided not to use specialties the way you did. Our method is a slightly more complicated affair for a simple reason.
Instead of using specialties to represent what craft you have mastered, we use a system like Lore topics, except that you have to pay for them the same way you would in your version. The only things that change are how you write them down, and the +1 dice.
This way, specialties keep their “say something about the character” use, which we felt was watered down once you got a bunch of craft specialties.
One would obviously adjust the specialty charms' prerequisites accordingly.
Difficulty and goal numbers:
We decided to use the basic rules in regards to time, terminus, difficulty and even crafting slots. We both feel strongly about keeping the difficulty in the new edition of Exalted capped to 5 in most cases and didn't feel more rolls would add anything for us.
Introducing workshops and assistants as something that matters, appeals to us but we're unsure how to.
For now we went with:
Workshop:
5 rolls for a basic workshop, with all the standard tools. However, manses and extremely large Artifacts may require large numbers of labourers as part of the “workshop”.
6 rolls for a master's workshop, which contains a high-quality example of every tool a normal craftsman in the field would ever want. A character using Craftsman Needs No Tools has this level of workshop for most projects.
6 rolls, +1 Non-Charm die for a supernaturally excellent workshop. These are rare in Creation, but a few Dynasts and gods and other stranger things have them.
Fiat-level modifiers for one of the legendary First Age factory-cathedrals.
Materials:
-1 rolls for having to stretch a bit of magical material or using wondrous ingredients that “kinda” fit.
Unmodified rolls for having some magical material and/or a few thematically appropriate wondrous ingredients.
+1 rolls for having plenty of magical materials and/or at least one genuinely impressive wondrous ingredient.
+2 rolls for having an embarrassing surplus of suitable ingredients or something that is simply perfect for the intended task.
Fiat-level modifiers for having something that makes the ST say "holy shit".
Bonuses (Once, not per interval):
-1 goal number for working with a master assistant or a team of competent workers.
-1*artifact level goal number for working with supernaturally excellent help. Sometimes such helpers will have Charms that provide bonuses above and beyond this one.
-2 goal number roll for having an Ability related to the Artifact at 5, or at 3 with a relevant specialty.
-2 goal number for having a Charm, spell, anima power, or other magical ability that's related to the Artifact.
Being able to earn more rolls by asking the ST what you'd have to do to make that happen seems interesting. We never had it actually come up, but pretended it happened twice, just to try it out and it seems reasonable.
The same goes for having materials or something left over, if you finish early.
In our Egypt game we defaulted to your building something creating a new, but weaker and very specific mystical ingredient in the process.
I have no idea if that would work for most games, but it ended up becoming a major plot point in our game, with a guild of alchemists being founded just to find out how to optimize this process and maybe even find a way to synthesize some of the materials.
In our game so far this worked alright, though things sometimes felt a bit weak, when we tried higher numbers it felt like it quickly got out of hand.
We didn’t like the “just take more time to get it done” options. While certainly valid from a in-game perspective, I don’t think anyone actually enjoys taking that option. But lots of people might take it, because it's strong. It might become especially screwy if you stick to the numbers from the book, which in the end we decided to go with.
We also used the rules form the basic system for time you need to invest as well as roll intervals, since we had no disagreement with that part of the system. After having tried both saw no clear winner, so we stuck to the original. We did vastly prefer being able to craft in "downtime" even though the characters I played both spent noticeable time on crafting, the option to instead go pursue another part of the story, without having a project stagnate completely, was pleasant.
Taking into account another game with a full group I play a crafter in, I really can't imagine giving up the "you get to craft and do other stuff" anymore.
The charms and what we did with them:
I'll only adress the ones we modified.
Supreme Masterwork Focus
Normal costs need to be replaced, but this seems excessive. It’s easy to make your anima shoot high with this, but I have no idea what to replace it with.
Our solution has been to make the third purchase cost 8m, 1wp rather than 10m, 1wp. We also added Mute to this charm at it’s third level.
After a few sessions with this, it started to feel unnecessarily complicated. We concluded to just ditch the idea of having to pay for removed craft xp with motes and then trying to make part of the problems it creates (anima display, higher mote drain) go away. We still felt it ought to cost more than in the backer pdf, but trying to make things balanced led to us overcharging this charm at first.
A three charm repurchase is a high enough cost, so we lowered the cost to 3m, 1wp (1m higher than originally) and didn’t give it mute.
Three sessions later we felt we had found the right balance, at least for our games.
Flawless Example
We tampered around with the cost a bit, while we were adjusting Supreme Masterwork Focus, but in the end realized the problem wasn’t with this charms price in motes.
We were thinking about requiring the object to have some minimum successes threshold, but decided against it. If you want to craft a 1 success item and have people copy it perfectly with two successes, why the hell not? It’s slightly funky, mechanically, but nothing’s going to break.
PS: We love this charm.
Object Strengthening Touch
We completely agree, we merely chose the other name (Durability-Enhancing Technique), since it felt weird to me to have a crafter and not have a charm by that name.
While I personally don’t miss Object-Strengthening Touch, I would consider buying it as an upgrade to Durability-Enhancing Technique. Perhaps upgrade the size of the object as well as the base resistance to the value you already suggest in your version, as well as giving you the option of using Object Strengthening Touch (giving it the values DET would normally have)?
Master Craftsman's Eye
Changed the cost to 3m without double 8, 5m as is. Confident this is fine.
Arete-Shifting Prana
Among the gained specialties, the ones lost should be represented, unless the story warrants such a radical shift.
Supreme Celestial Focus
Very strong, but we approve strongly. I think this should be a repurchase, since repurchases feel less bad than having a “dead” charm, even though technically nothing is different, apart from the phrasing.
Benevolent Worker's Joy
Those are a lot of prerequisites. Wouldn’t two of those suffice?
We thoroughly love the mote regen while helping. It’s such a small thing, but it feels great.
Awe-Inspiring Feats Of Craft
Introduce an alternative cost for resisting the positive Intimacy?
There definitively should be a way to resist, that doesn’t cost wp, since you can’t say “no” (like you could with the lore training charms for example).
Maybe develop a negative one, (possibly of resentment? Jealousy?) towards the item constructed or repaired instead of paying a wp?
The Craft Of War
Require Craftsman needs no tools or similar power or artifact to be active, to use? Unsure about this.
If we decide in favor of it, make these two charms activate at the same time, despite both being simple, and make CNNT last for that battle.
I really wanted to try this, but it simply didn't come up in our games beyond a single scene in the first of the games, which just doesn't feel like enough to conclude anything.
Tireless Workhorse Method
Left this charm as well as CNNT as they were.
Made this an upgrade option of CNNT at essence 2.
CNNT doesn’t really address how you speed your work, so I don’t think the essence 3 upgrade is actually necessary.
Gaze Of The Great Maker
Very strong, but again we approve strongly, but would make it a repurchase.
This should get a similar condition as the awareness charms that let you regain the committed motes.
I see this as a good thing not just for the player, but for the ST. You take away any reason the player would have not to have this charm on at all times, after he’s been using it long enough for you to assume he’s using it, at all times. Once you get used to it in your descriptions. I think it preferable to not have the player decide he’d rather have 10m for the upcoming scene, since this is one of those things you start to count on as a ST.
I thought that was actually a pretty ingenious decision the writers made with the Awareness charms.
Words As Workshop Method
Not sure about the costs, either. We went with 2m>3m>6m>15m
A catapult should be it’s own category, easily costing 20m and available from essence 3 or 4 on.
Thousand-Forge Hands
Since we settled on using the old numbers, as well as Slots, after having played around with the ones suggested in the original rewrite, we simply went back to the version in the book.
Breach-Healing Method
On one hand I like the idea of the charm, but I think this is too good and lasts too long, without being limited to a specific thing it is for. The people watching are simply inspired, rather than inspired as long as they aid or emulate you.
I think I would prefer a Tiger-Warrior/Sea-Devil equivalent to this.
With a limitation of “what they glean from your crafting must make narrative sense” it seems to work (maybe even as intended ?) but I really don’t know how to keep this balanced.
IF you use the charm as is, it should also apply to shape sorcery and sorcerous workings. I see no reason to exclude them.
Design Beyond Limit
We agree that we should wait on the rewrite.
First Movement Of The Demiurge
Since we settled on using the old numbers, as well as Slots, after having played around with the ones suggested in the original rewrite, we simply went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, simply kicking that charm’s craft xp cost and increasing the activation cost by 1wp.
Seems easily worth it, under the original craft systems numbers, not sure if it’d be worth it in the rewrite.
Essence-Forging Kata
We went back to the version in the book and also reintroduced the prerequisite, while adding a 1wp cost to the charm.
Eternal Bulwark Of Order
Kinda underwhelming. We’ll revisit this once we have actual wyld rules.
The Art Of Permanence
While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, this, to me, crosses the line of what should be possible.
Maybe if it was limited in a specific way. I think I see less of a problem creating a ladder from materials very unsuited to it rather than making the essence constructs entirely real. A ladder of sand? A sword of paper? Kinda works, especially if it’s temporary (which you might be able to make permanent with the original version of this charm, or Object Strengthening Touch/Durability-Enhancing Technique).
But *poof* stuff, feels a bit too sorcery to me, which is why I’d rather not have it be able of doing this.
Also, I very much like the original charm, so we’ve reintroduced it.
In this version of this charm, Durability-Enhancing Technique is added as a prerequisite.
Divine Inspiration Technique
Reintroduced Unwinding Gyre Meditation. What you lose & gain seems balanced towards each other if you simply pull out the craft xp as cost as well as reward.
Also, only way to gain additional intervals I am aware of.
Painted Truth Prana/Philosophy Carved In Stone
I’d change the attributes to the same that are used for written social attacks, so basically any attribute.
Dual Magus Prana
A version of this might a good prerequisite charm for Dual-Magnus prana, we really don’t want that charm to go. We think it is a great tool for players in a system without Hero points, Edge or Fate to be able to invest deep enough to have this one chance.
We'd rather go with a xp investment over motes, but one could easily allow that as an option, with the same conditions for regaining the xp as you'd have with survival or war charms.
Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique
&
Life From The Workshop
&
Stone Legion Construction/Mechanical Legion Construction
These just didn't work for what we wanted them for. Maybe an xp cost, here too? They might be worth it for someone who is a pure crafter, and nothing else, but for characters that need their motes in battle, these charms are very unimpressive to use. We haven't come up with anything beyond the merit we are already using in games before your system, but we do intend to give these another look over. The ability to temporarily create living statues, walking armours and so on is tempting.
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