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Ex3 Thaumaturgy Rituals

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  • Robert Vance
    replied
    Originally posted by Ejtaka View Post
    Pull the ribs out of a pig fully cooked without harming the pig. Not marinated and no sauce.
    what kind of diabolical villain are you

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  • wonderandawe
    replied
    I guess I need to start using the term "Occultist" for mortals who dabble in magic instead of "Thaumaturge"

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  • Segev
    replied
    That does seem to be what it is. I just wish they hadn't called it "thaumaturgy," because it fits neither the old editions' definition nor mythic/historical definitions. They're random supernatural tricks better represented by mutation/merit.

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  • Ejtaka
    replied
    My reading is that thaumaturgy is there for a blanket 'I know how do to something that is not normal in the setting, kinda breaks the rules, and I don't want to give to other players, is not reproducable, but is awesome.'

    If it is something that lots of people know, it should be covered by regular skills. If it is calling on a god or spirit, it should be covered by regular skills.

    If you can't explain it, and no one else can do it, it's thaumaturgy. Here's some of my ideas.

    Speak to badgers. You speak any regular language, they understand. You understand their snuffles and squeaks. They are reasonably friendly (they are still badgers, though, so watch yourself).

    Ask a question, reference a book, and get something resembling an answer.

    Pull the ribs out of a pig fully cooked without harming the pig. Not marinated and no sauce.

    Always be able to find sometuing that has been mundanely and legitimately lost. Not stolen, not deliberately hidden, but lost. Lost sheep? Lost tools? Lost city?

    Touch an object and be able to see from it while touching it. Touch a tree to survey the land from the top of a tree. Touch a wall to see the other side.

    Do something other people can do, but without the difficulty. Write on paper by speaking to it.

    My rules: no dice tricks. It doesn't work if specifically blocked by other magic. It doesn't work of another person tried the same thing. The magic resides in you, not in an object made or procedure used. If you make a cake that helps to heal, it only works if you serve it. You can't industrualize it. If you need to make a pie, the magic stops when you make another pie. Generally make it something really impossible, but not big.

    Edited for typos because my thumbs are fat and my phone small.
    Last edited by Ejtaka; 01-29-2016, 04:40 PM.

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  • GivenFlesh
    replied
    For the most part, I feel like thaumaturgists are meant to be little miracles. "Tricks", sure, but they're not reproduceable by almost anyone else, and are done in ways that feel strange and occult. The value of them on a sorcerer is that they let you have magic that is less dramatic than butterflies that feels like magic. They're great for a few specific scenarios, they're great for worldbuilding. Give an NPC hermit a couple really strange habits that lead to unique powers! And make them weird but useful... like... the wanderer on the road who will tell your future for some coin. The hermit in the hills who can brew a tea which will bring clarity to a memory so strong that you feel you're reliving it. The witch in the bog who forms an effigy of you with some hair and a vial of blood mixed into clay, who says it will break if you suffer any harm, no matter how far away... the idea is just that they help a character feel more... well, magical. Even if they don't know the big dramatic miracle of sorcery.

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  • wonderandawe
    replied
    After reading this thread, I realize that many of the Ex2 Thaumaturgy rituals now fall under the Occult ability. For example, my Occult 5 Twilight no longer needs to buy a ritual to be able to place a ward on someone's house. To me this is a good change.

    The next question is does a non-Exalt need to buy the Thaumaturgy Merit to cast wards and so on? Or does that merit just give a mortal access to "Miracles".

    Also, something occurred to me: Exalts can pump Essence into actions to make the action more likely to succeed. So while a Thaumaturgy ritual that imitates an an Occult/Medicine action may be useless to an Exalt, it would be extremely beneficial to a mortal. The ritual would be worth it to a mortal if increases the likelihood of the action succeeding.

    For example, Lin's patient has a life-threatening fever. If Lin was a Solar, she could use her supernatural excellence at healing to bring the fever down. However, Lin is a mortal, so channeling Essence for a better chance of success isn't an option for her. Since Lin is a Thaumaturgist, she knows a ritual to break a fever, so she is able to save her patient.

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  • Xanandithras
    replied
    Originally posted by Zelbinnean View Post
    Some of them were maybe ok. Others were really stupid (needing Occult to breed mundane animals pretty well, anyone?)
    If I recall, weren't some of the Procedures learnable with no occult dots?

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  • The Unsung Hero
    replied
    Originally posted by TavelGorge View Post

    Yea it looks like glorified mutations for now. Im going to wait for the magic book? If thats a thing? Maybe theyll elaborate on it. For now it looks like its just thier to keep the term for brand recognition.
    I think it's Paths of Brigid, yeah. I'm stoked for that book.

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  • ZealousChristian24
    replied
    Originally posted by The Unsung Hero View Post
    Anyone know a list of 2e books that listed Thaumaturgy rituals? I have most of the books but it's been years since I've read that and I always glossed Thaumaturgy.
    I think the majority are in the core and the Codex.

    Leave a comment:


  • TavelGorge
    replied
    Originally posted by Segev View Post
    The trouble is that what the book calls "Thaumaturgy" in 3E doesn't really feel like what it has been presented as in the past. Most of what we, as legacy players of Exalted, think of as Thaumaturgy is now just applications of Occult, Medicine, and Lore in a mundane sense - and that can be a good thing. You know the rituals to do things "mundanely," and it looks like magic because magic is just a part of Creation. Salt to ward off ghosts, iron to ward off the Fae, a treatment of burning incense and prayer to drive off disease spirits, a harvest dance to increase its abundance and a fertility festival to enrich the planting, all magical things, all rituals that are "thaumaturgy" in the old sense, but are just part of how things work in Creation and thus mundane applications of Abilities.

    What 3E calls "Thaumaturgy" are really random 1-2 point supernatural merits that amount to unique minor tricks some random people can perform. This one guy who can break bread into more food than the original loaf, and this other who can smell spirits, and this girl who can listen to a sea shell to hear her twin brother's voice while he's at sea are all 3E thaumaturges.
    Yea it looks like glorified mutations for now. Im going to wait for the magic book? If thats a thing? Maybe theyll elaborate on it. For now it looks like its just thier to keep the term for brand recognition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Segev
    replied
    The trouble is that what the book calls "Thaumaturgy" in 3E doesn't really feel like what it has been presented as in the past. Most of what we, as legacy players of Exalted, think of as Thaumaturgy is now just applications of Occult, Medicine, and Lore in a mundane sense - and that can be a good thing. You know the rituals to do things "mundanely," and it looks like magic because magic is just a part of Creation. Salt to ward off ghosts, iron to ward off the Fae, a treatment of burning incense and prayer to drive off disease spirits, a harvest dance to increase its abundance and a fertility festival to enrich the planting, all magical things, all rituals that are "thaumaturgy" in the old sense, but are just part of how things work in Creation and thus mundane applications of Abilities.

    What 3E calls "Thaumaturgy" are really random 1-2 point supernatural merits that amount to unique minor tricks some random people can perform. This one guy who can break bread into more food than the original loaf, and this other who can smell spirits, and this girl who can listen to a sea shell to hear her twin brother's voice while he's at sea are all 3E thaumaturges.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Unsung Hero
    replied
    Anyone know a list of 2e books that listed Thaumaturgy rituals? I have most of the books but it's been years since I've read that and I always glossed Thaumaturgy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zelbinnean
    replied
    Originally posted by Xanandithras View Post
    Eh... 3E thaumaturgy really didn't wow me. Maybe it's cause they couldn't really fit enough example in or something? I rather miss the formulaic schools of thaumaturgy from 2E.
    Some of them were maybe ok. Others were really stupid (needing Occult to breed mundane animals pretty well, anyone?)

    Leave a comment:


  • Anasurimbor
    replied
    Originally posted by Wise Old Guru View Post
    Honestly?

    I've just been taking Thaumaturgical rituals from 2nd ed and porting them over. Not the rolls and stuff, but the effects and their general power level.
    While a reasonable idea, try to keep in mind that Thaumaturgy should be reserved for things that are genuinely miraculous, not mere applications of skill.

    There's a shaman in the Elk tribe who knows the song to sing to call an elk from the forest to lay its head in your lap and sleep while the hunters creep up with their spears. Old Art of Husbandry.
    This could be thaumaturgy, but it could also be Performance or Survival.

    There's an exorcist in Sijan who knows the trick of using the blood of the living mixed with salt to ward an area against the unquiet dead. Old Art of Warding.
    This is absolutely a mundane Occult roll.

    There's a sorcerer's apprentice who has been blessed by dark powers with the ability to fuel his rituals through bloodletting and ritual sacrifice-old Art of the Dead, spending HLs for motes.
    You hardly need thaumaturgy to use sacrifices in sorcerous rituals.

    There's a doctor in Nexus who knows how to concoct liquids that react and change colors when exposed to various substances. The Guild pays him handsomely when he consults on criminal investigations of losses they've incurred. Old art of alchemy.
    Mundane Craft(Alchemy)

    There's a little peasant kid in the Realm who can find his way unerringly through the manses of the Dragonblooded and the ruins of the First Age to the chamber where the hearthstone forms, purely by instinct. They keep sending him into First Age ruins full of dangerous traps and he keeps coming out alive...for now. Old school art of Geomancy.
    Sure.

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  • Xanandithras
    replied
    Eh... 3E thaumaturgy really didn't wow me. Maybe it's cause they couldn't really fit enough example in or something? I rather miss the formulaic schools of thaumaturgy from 2E.

    Leave a comment:

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