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  • From a balance perspective I don't know. What I can say from a design perspective is I find Charm repurchases (especially those in the Solar Core Book, I haven't look too much into the other splats) very boring, because you invest so much in what usually feels so little from a growth perspective for your character.

    If I may do a suggestion : A player can negotiate with the ST that, if he successfully use the MA Charm or a chain of MA Charm (for those that are interdependent) in a scene where he achieves specific objectives tied to the Martial Art, he loses the Terrestrial Keyword ? For example, for Armor-Penetrating Fang Strike (Exalted Core p.428), if your Dragon-Blooded was a Wyld Hunt shikari totally devoted to hunting the Solar Anathema, successfully crashing a Solar/Abyssal in Heavy Artefact armor using this Charm in a fight scene would unlock the Terrestrial keyword for him on this Charm ?


    My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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    • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
      From a balance perspective I don't know. What I can say from a design perspective is I find Charm repurchases (especially those in the Solar Core Book, I haven't look too much into the other splats) very boring, because you invest so much in what usually feels so little from a growth perspective for your character.
      I think that wouldn't be too problematic for Martial Arts Charms, as removing the Terrestrial Keyword is a dramatic upgrade stronger than most Upgrade Charms, let alone most Charm Repurchases.

      Originally posted by Chausse View Post
      If I may do a suggestion : A player can negotiate with the ST that, if he successfully use the MA Charm or a chain of MA Charm (for those that are interdependent) in a scene where he achieves specific objectives tied to the Martial Art, he loses the Terrestrial Keyword ? For example, for Armor-Penetrating Fang Strike (Exalted Core p.428), if your Dragon-Blooded was a Wyld Hunt shikari totally devoted to hunting the Solar Anathema, successfully crashing a Solar/Abyssal in Heavy Artefact armor using this Charm in a fight scene would unlock the Terrestrial keyword for him on this Charm ?
      It's an interesting idea and probably the most sensible solution, but I still want to figure out a more general solution that doesn't rely on ST fiat if I can.

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      • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
        I think that wouldn't be too problematic for Martial Arts Charms, as removing the Terrestrial Keyword is a dramatic upgrade stronger than most Upgrade Charms, let alone most Charm Repurchases.


        It's an interesting idea and probably the most sensible solution, but I still want to figure out a more general solution that doesn't rely on ST fiat if I can.
        I guess sour solution is fine then. I'm not an expert on MA, the one I saw on Armor-Penetrating Fang Strike really didn't seem worth a rebuy.


        My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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        • What breaks if you lose some initiative when you try to decisive attack a target you have not attacked the prior round? Trying to mitigate decisive target switching without managing a concept of "target", but also not making it more difficult to alternatingly wither multiple targets to manage initiative.

          Would there need to be a "round 1" clause so that alpha strikes can still happen, or could they stand to have a little less edge?
          Last edited by MoroseMorgan; 11-13-2019, 02:48 PM.


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          • Originally posted by MoroseMorgan View Post
            What breaks if you lose some initiative when you try to decisive attack a target you have not attacked the prior round? Trying to mitigate decisive target switching without managing a concept of "target", but also not making it more difficult to alternatingly wither multiple targets to manage initiative.

            Would there need to be a "round 1" clause so that alpha strikes can still happen, or could they stand to have a little less edge?
            Well, ambushes are going to be defanged and anytime somebody's 'target' is killed by someone else/flees/surrenders/etc that guy is going to lose initiative for something totally out of their control.
            It also sets up some cheesy things involving two attackers shuffling who's at close. Alice hits Bob with a withering, so Bob disengages while Carl steps forward and attacks. Alice can't decisive her 'target' unless she wins the roll-off.

            But more importantly, I can't speak to what will happen in your game without knowing the problem you're encountering. What circumstances are people engaging in decisive target switching in, and what problems is it causing?

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            • What breaks if...

              Crashed targets do not award initiative from withering attacks? So, they can be driven further into crash by repeated withering attacks, but each only awards the +1 initiative for a successful attack?


              My Homebrew: Architect of the Regal Puppet Style (WIP) || Monkey Style || Radiant Halo of Incandescent Might || Pale Driver, Ruination of the Edifice of Tyranny || Sublime Percussion, Just a Whole lot of Fun || Idris, The Graceful Heart of Purpose

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              • Originally posted by Elkovash View Post
                What breaks if...

                Crashed targets do not award initiative from withering attacks? So, they can be driven further into crash by repeated withering attacks, but each only awards the +1 initiative for a successful attack?
                Overall it causes initiative to drain from the system faster than it accumulates, so the longer a fight drags on the less ini there will be to go around.

                On defense, it limits comebacks. Suppose you initiative shift an enemy, sending you from -5 to 7 while the enemy goes from 5 to -2. Well now you're stuck at 7 for your extra free attack, and for 3 more turns after that.

                On the attacking side, since using a Decisive on someone doesn't put them out of Crash, it means you get stuck at 3 ini for 2-3 turns before you can gain ini again, so Decisives become much more punishing and the chance you'll get initiative shifted rises dramatically. This encourages degenerate gameplay where you drive the enemy further into crash while gaining no ini yourself for 2 turns so that you can always Decisive on the last turn of an enemy's Crash.

                Edit:
                For something like that to work I'd recommend a few more tweaks :

                -successfully using a Decisive takes someone out of Crash immediately

                -adding ways to increase the total initiative in the system (such as in the Momentum Exalted combat rework where stunts award initiative)
                Last edited by Epitome; 11-14-2019, 07:33 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Elkovash View Post
                  What breaks if...

                  Crashed targets do not award initiative from withering attacks? So, they can be driven further into crash by repeated withering attacks, but each only awards the +1 initiative for a successful attack?
                  Decisive defenses usable in Crash become a lot stronger. The Twilight Anima power won't be that big of a deal, but Adamant Skin Technique becomes absolutely insane if the only way to get much more initiative off you is to wait until you reset from Crash.
                  Defend Other becomes really really irritating when the defender is Crashed. I can imagine a Suicide War Lion build that throws up Fivefold and then face-tanks every withering attack directed at his team. Couple with AST and I think you could seriously break the combat engine.

                  But barring AST and chicanery, I think the only big issues Epitome didn't cover would be that a barely-crashed enemy becomes a dilemma and that it promotes a bunch of target-switching if you're aiming for a 1HK.

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                  • Ta.

                    I had initially thought that shifting might give the INT injection the system needs to keep running but I hadn’t crunched any hard numbers just yet.

                    Or to promote more low-initiative decisives.

                    I’ll think more on it and come back.

                    Thanks again.


                    My Homebrew: Architect of the Regal Puppet Style (WIP) || Monkey Style || Radiant Halo of Incandescent Might || Pale Driver, Ruination of the Edifice of Tyranny || Sublime Percussion, Just a Whole lot of Fun || Idris, The Graceful Heart of Purpose

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                    • What breaks if Invulnerable Skin of Bronze gives you -0 health levels that do not interact with the effects of Charms instead of Soak ?

                      Basically I don't like permanent Soak cumulable very much, but I'm fine with the other effects of the spell. If the -0 provided by the spell are depleted, it acts the same than Virtuous Guardian of Flame : Dissipates for the day and the spell cannot be relaunched for the remaining duration. What amount of health you think would be acceptable ? I'm hesitating between 3 (to make it an Ox Body technique with side effect) or more ?


                      My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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                      • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
                        What breaks if Invulnerable Skin of Bronze gives you -0 health levels that do not interact with the effects of Charms instead of Soak ?

                        Basically I don't like permanent Soak cumulable very much, but I'm fine with the other effects of the spell. If the -0 provided by the spell are depleted, it acts the same than Virtuous Guardian of Flame : Dissipates for the day and the spell cannot be relaunched for the remaining duration. What amount of health you think would be acceptable ? I'm hesitating between 3 (to make it an Ox Body technique with side effect) or more ?
                        Shouldn't break anything unless you've got a character using it to compensate for awful Soak. Or a Soak-Monster who's prone to whining.
                        Having it provide health will make Invincible God-Metal Flash a lot lamer, though.
                        Having the health be entirely -0s means the spell will end very quickly, generally in the first Decisive the user takes damage from. Your call as to if that's desirable.

                        Your problem is ISoB stacking on top of Stamina, armor, and Charms to create absurd Soak pools, correct? As an alternate solution, why not make ISoB's Soak replace the Soak you gain from Stamina? That should leave it still beneficial to cast but impede the stacking.

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                        • Originally posted by vwllss trnt prncss View Post

                          Shouldn't break anything unless you've got a character using it to compensate for awful Soak. Or a Soak-Monster who's prone to whining.
                          Having it provide health will make Invincible God-Metal Flash a lot lamer, though.
                          Having the health be entirely -0s means the spell will end very quickly, generally in the first Decisive the user takes damage from. Your call as to if that's desirable.

                          Your problem is ISoB stacking on top of Stamina, armor, and Charms to create absurd Soak pools, correct? As an alternate solution, why not make ISoB's Soak replace the Soak you gain from Stamina? That should leave it still beneficial to cast but impede the stacking.
                          I'm fine with awful soak and whiners.
                          Why would Invincible God-Metal Flash get lamer ?
                          I think you are right and won't "dissipates the spell" once the -0 health levels are depleted. They are just gone and can't regenerate, but the sorcerer can still benefit from every other bonuses for the day. The spell is just gone. The only way to lose all benefits is to use God Metal Flash, or lose some to distortion.

                          Your assumption is correct. I really hesitated between both solutions. The problem I have with your solution (I like it more personally) is that through talk with other players they feel it as a nerf of the spell, and god people don't like nerfed things. Meanwhile more health points doesn't seem to bother them, it's just another alternative, even one that seems better than a Solar Charm so why not.


                          My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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                          • ISoB provides Natural Soak but counts as Medium Armor. It doesn't stack with armor (outside of the Control Spell benefit).

                            Apparently this is wrong.
                            Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-16-2019, 09:54 AM.


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                            • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                              ISoB provides Natural Soak but counts as Medium Armor. It doesn't stack with armor (outside of the Control Spell benefit).
                              Really ? I'm pretty sure I read aconvo somewhere where it was said it stacked with armor. If that's not the case I have no need for fix then. Thx !


                              My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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                              • Originally posted by Chausse View Post

                                Really ? I'm pretty sure I read aconvo somewhere where it was said it stacked with armor. If that's not the case I have no need for fix then. Thx !
                                I'm pretty sure it stacks with armor. "The Invulnerable Skin of Bronze gives the sorcerer +6 natural soak and Hardness 6" gives natural soak, nothing about not stacking with armor.
                                The only mention of armor is "
                                she is considered to be wearing medium armor,which might deny her the use of certain Martial Artsstyles or other effects." One could argue that armor is an effect that is denied while wearing other armor, but that seems like a fairly twisty interpretation to me.

                                "
                                A sorcerer who knows Invulnerable Skin of Bronze as her control spell may add her Essence to the soak and Hardness bonus she receives as long as she is unarmored. Even without the spell, her skin takes on a faint bronze tint. She may also add her Essence to her soak when the spell is not in effect."

                                I don't think this clause makes any sense if it's impossible to be both armored and using the spell, or if using the spell makes you count as armored.




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