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  • I'm wondering about Double 9s and Double 8s in every ability for Solars (and why not other Exalted actually), and what consequences it could have. And your next line will be "But it will break combat and social abilities !" (Stares in Jojo). But I'd actually say there are already so much Charms which give other kind of dice tricks in these same abilities (reroll 1s, non Charm dices, etc ...) while the defense side usually get limited in the same way by the Dice Charm limitation with no tricks to go over it (maybe specifically in Dodge, I believe) so waddayathinkabout ?

    Basically my goal is remove most dice tricks Charms and replace them with a core simple dice trick Charm for every ability that always work the same way (I've spoken about in another thread)


    My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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    • I mean... all rolls will be about 20% higher?

      I toyed with something similar a little while back... my thought was to add dice tricks to Excellencies as you bought Charms in that Ability. 5 War Charms? Get double 9s when you use an Excellence. 10 Charms? Double 9s and reroll 6s. And so on.

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      • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
        I'm wondering about Double 9s and Double 8s in every ability for Solars (and why not other Exalted actually), and what consequences it could have. And your next line will be "But it will break combat and social abilities !" (Stares in Jojo). But I'd actually say there are already so much Charms which give other kind of dice tricks in these same abilities (reroll 1s, non Charm dices, etc ...) while the defense side usually get limited in the same way by the Dice Charm limitation with no tricks to go over it (maybe specifically in Dodge, I believe) so waddayathinkabout ?

        Basically my goal is remove most dice tricks Charms and replace them with a core simple dice trick Charm for every ability that always work the same way (I've spoken about in another thread)
        So do you mean like get rid of Excellent Strike, and Rising Sun Slash from Solar Melee and just replace them with two charms that give double 9s and double 8s?

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        • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

          So do you mean like get rid of Excellent Strike, and Rising Sun Slash from Solar Melee and just replace them with two charms that give double 9s and double 8s?
          That would be the core idea I guess. Excellent Strike for sure, Rising Sun Strike I could consider keeping it because it is fun on paper ... but in practice, when we are 2 hours in a 4-5 hours session, I don't think this keeps the same fun.

          It could be a little different that just buying Charms (I like Grod's idea to unlock simple Charm Dice tricks effects when you have X Charms in an ability for example), but yeah the purpose would be to get rid of most Charms that are too focused on dice tricks. After few years of Solar's campaign, I don't think they are that healthy for my Exalted playstyle.


          My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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          • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
            That would be the core idea I guess. Excellent Strike for sure, Rising Sun Strike I could consider keeping it because it is fun on paper ... but in practice, when we are 2 hours in a 4-5 hours session, I don't think this keeps the same fun.
            That might not actually end up simplifying much, depending on the charm tree. The only Melee charm out of the 48 that's a dice trick is Excellent Strike, Brawl has 2 for excellency-able rolls and 2 for damage, Socialize has 4 I think, Presence has 2-3. It will be simpler overall most of the time, except maybe for some trees like Melee, but I don't think it's going to drastically simplify things. Also if you go down to double 8s you're going to really boost the power of some trees by a lot.

            It's not really broken, exactly, the game's still going to run, but Solars are just going to be that much more powerful than they currently are.

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            • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
              I'm wondering about Double 9s and Double 8s in every ability for Solars (and why not other Exalted actually), and what consequences it could have. And your next line will be "But it will break combat and social abilities !" (Stares in Jojo). But I'd actually say there are already so much Charms which give other kind of dice tricks in these same abilities (reroll 1s, non Charm dices, etc ...) while the defense side usually get limited in the same way by the Dice Charm limitation with no tricks to go over it (maybe specifically in Dodge, I believe) so waddayathinkabout ?

              Basically my goal is remove most dice tricks Charms and replace them with a core simple dice trick Charm for every ability that always work the same way (I've spoken about in another thread)
              I think you'd be better served looking at why certain trees are full of bizarre dice tricks *COUGHCRAFTCOUGH* and what can be done to rework systems so those dice tricks aren't necessary *COUGHCRAFTCOUGH* instead of fiddling with the math. Because as DrLoveMonkey points out, a bunch of trees don't really have many dice tricks.

              Craft, just to introduce an example, is full of dice tricks so that Essence and Exalt type can be used to gate various Artifact dot levels. Can you rework the tree to remove dice tricks without touching the subsystem it interacts with? What about changing the subsystem so the dice tricks aren't needed? (Hint: The answers are no and yes.)

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              • Yeah I guess there are many that include dice tricks in them, but only few are literal only dice-tricks for combat, so I might as well leave them be. I'll keep my plan for social and other Abilities I guess, it's just when I pass over some of them I wish they didn't exactly as they are because they are really more about the combat mini-game than the cinematic of combat and fun combat options, so I was trying to think of ideas to clear them up. I guess it's not easily doable.


                My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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                • Originally posted by vwllss trnt prncss View Post

                  I think you'd be better served looking at why certain trees are full of bizarre dice tricks *COUGHCRAFTCOUGH* and what can be done to rework systems so those dice tricks aren't necessary *COUGHCRAFTCOUGH* instead of fiddling with the math. Because as DrLoveMonkey points out, a bunch of trees don't really have many dice tricks.

                  Craft, just to introduce an example, is full of dice tricks so that Essence and Exalt type can be used to gate various Artifact dot levels. Can you rework the tree to remove dice tricks without touching the subsystem it interacts with? What about changing the subsystem so the dice tricks aren't needed? (Hint: The answers are no and yes.)
                  Well you see I'm doing a Thesis in Mathematics and even I am not crazy enough to try to play with this thing that is the Craft system



                  My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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                  • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
                    Yeah I guess there are many that include dice tricks in them, but only few are literal only dice-tricks for combat, so I might as well leave them be. I'll keep my plan for social and other Abilities I guess, it's just when I pass over some of them I wish they didn't exactly as they are because they are really more about the combat mini-game than the cinematic of combat and fun combat options, so I was trying to think of ideas to clear them up. I guess it's not easily doable.
                    Yeah, part of the reason there's SO many dice trick charms is just because there's 25 abilities and like 20 martial arts trees. Even if every tree only has 2 dice trick charms that's still over 80 in the game, which is a big number.

                    There's also just a bunch of charms that aren't dice tricks but are maybe kind of fiddly anyway. Like Protection of Celestial Bliss, which gives you this other pool of initiative to draw on for the purposes of Heavenly Guardian Defense and has a bunch of extra rules and motes and stuff attached to it.

                    Exalted Essence might be more what you're looking for what that comes out in a year or so.

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                    • Originally posted by Chausse View Post

                      Well you see I'm doing a Thesis in Mathematics and even I am not crazy enough to try to play with this thing that is the Craft system
                      I can't blame you! To be totally honest, my rework started by taking a step to the side and starting fresh.

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                      • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                        Yeah, part of the reason there's SO many dice trick charms is just because there's 25 abilities and like 20 martial arts trees. Even if every tree only has 2 dice trick charms that's still over 80 in the game, which is a big number.

                        There's also just a bunch of charms that aren't dice tricks but are maybe kind of fiddly anyway. Like Protection of Celestial Bliss, which gives you this other pool of initiative to draw on for the purposes of Heavenly Guardian Defense and has a bunch of extra rules and motes and stuff attached to it.

                        Exalted Essence might be more what you're looking for what that comes out in a year or so.
                        Is that coming so soon ? I recalled in Wizard of Oz it was in its early days.

                        Yeah and also there are lots of Charms that are not directly classical dice tricks but contains them : For example, Melee has Excellent Strike, Bulwark Stance, Rising Sun Slash, Agile Dragonfly Blade, Hail-Shattering Practice (only went up to Essence 2, and I didn't even include those that increase damage) And I think Melee is one with the lowest count, compared to Brawl. They are not bad per-se, but I think they focus way too much on the combat mini-game and not on the options of combat that seems much more interesting to me (for a simple example that has good design to me : War Lion Stance).
                        Last edited by Chausse; 02-02-2020, 04:38 PM.


                        My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

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                        • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
                          Yeah and also there are lots of Charms that are not directly classical dice tricks but contains them : For example, Melee has Excellent Strike, Bulwark Stance, Rising Sun Slash, Agile Dragonfly Blade, Hail-Shattering Practice (only went up to Essence 2, and I didn't even include those that increase damage) And I think Melee is one with the lowest count, compared to Brawl. They are not bad per-se, but I think they focus way too much on the combat mini-game and not on the options of combat that seems much more interesting to me (for a simple example that has good design to me : War Lion Stance).
                          That's certainly true. You could probably prune every tree by about half and still have a tremendously rich spread of abilities.

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                          • Originally posted by Grod_the_giant View Post
                            That's certainly true. You could probably prune every tree by about half and still have a tremendously rich spread of abilities.
                            Yeah if you just want to ditch the dice trick charms all together and not replace them with anything I think it still mostly works. Maybe have a defensive equivalent of the double 9s charm just to keep the balance a bit if you’re ditching Bulwer Stance and Hail Shattering and stuff.

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                            • I don't see simple tricks to augment Defense that are statistically equivalent to Double 9s for the defender to use. Static Defense increase ?


                              My homebrew (Leave comments if you want to help improve) : A quick recap of all the pools and stats for Quick Exalted 3E characters

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chausse View Post
                                I don't see simple tricks to augment Defense that are statistically equivalent to Double 9s for the defender to use. Static Defense increase ?
                                You could just counter the doubles, make the enemy lose double 10s for example.

                                It’s not exactly going to be one-to-one anyway. Bulwark Stance reduces damage with its dice trick rather than make you harder to hit, so it’s going to be pretty generalized no matter what.
                                Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 02-03-2020, 10:13 AM.

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