Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What Breaks If......

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ellis
    started a topic What Breaks If......

    What Breaks If......

    I've had a couple of weird and pretty game-rearranging ideas lately, which I don't think really rate their own thread, so I'm putting them here instead. Please, bring your own as well.
    1. What breaks if Infernals bring in their 2e themes of becoming Primordials, but instead of being Essence-based, they're Attribute-based? Lunars were the other splat defined by being (as opposed to Solars doing), and they were Attribute-based, on the basis that Attributes are what you are but Abilities are what you can do. Besides, the existing Charm trees break down fairly easily if you take each Yozi to cover four Attributes, so Infernals favor two Caste Attributes and two of their own. Most of the Green Sun Flare Nimbus stuff goes in Malfean Strength while the By Pain Reforged stuff goes in Malfean Stamina, as opposed to the Transcendent Desert Creature stuff in Cecilian Stamina. There's definitely a little reshuffling involved, though. Also, Shintai/DBT similarities? I'm just saying.
    2. What breaks if Sidereal Resplendent Destinies are more like Vancian magic (the less cool Vancian magic as opposed to Exalted sorcery, that is). I mean, one of the criticisms of DND magic is that it feels like Batman's utility belt, but a James Bond utility belt is exactly the feel Sidereals are going for with their closed Charmset already. Let them requisition/pray for uses of Charms or Resplendencies, even if they don't have them, and the Maidens in the form of the GM approve or even suggest them. I think it would be very in theme for a Sidereal circle in the middle of planning a battle to get approved for Efficient Secretary Technique and take it as a hint that they're missing something. This idea has been brought to you by the comic in MOEP Sidereals where they say they've been "all been granted Terminal Sanction", which doesn't really make sense otherwise but is in all other respects highly enjoyable.

  • Grod_the_giant
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

    Doesn’t that just mean you stunt the NPCs attack to raise the difficulty, then the PC stunts their defence to get bonus dice and you still have to go through that step?
    Sort of? It doesn't do all that much to speed up resolution, but in my experience it's more intuitive to add stunts and charms to an active roll than a passive value.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Grod_the_giant View Post
    This sort of thing is exactly why I've switched over to a "players roll all the dice" variant--it makes this kind of exchange way smoother, and makes defensive stunts more natural.
    Doesn’t that just mean you stunt the NPCs attack to raise the difficulty, then the PC stunts their defence to get bonus dice and you still have to go through that step?

    Leave a comment:


  • Grod_the_giant
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
    I sometimes find it a bit tedious to say "Okay this is the stunted attack, how are you stunting your defense *listens to defensive stunt* okay that's a level one stunt, now what defensive charms/willpower are you spending?"
    This sort of thing is exactly why I've switched over to a "players roll all the dice" variant--it makes this kind of exchange way smoother, and makes defensive stunts more natural.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Ah true I forgot about Lunars and lethal blocks I had a nagging feeling something keyed off a stunted defence. None of my players are Lunars right now, but that might just be something I’d have to do later. Should work if I just trust my players to stunt it post roll.

    I think changing to a binary stunt system would be better, but players might feel like they’re being robbed of the chance to regain willpower from a level two stunt and stuff. It would be a lot easier if I didn’t have to decide what constituted various stunt levels though.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    I think you'd have to give the applicabilty of stunts to the static values: i.e. even though you're not giving a stunt bonus, and they're not describing the stunt until after the dice are rolled, you can still block lethal attacks with your Brawl based parry and Lunars still get to boost their Defense with a second attribute.

    One idea I'm toying with is to use Essence's system of Stunts being a flat yes/no. Then you could just perma-bump static values by 1 so long as you trust your players to describe their stunts after the roll. (This is basically what my homebrewed RPG system does, but I'm not sure how applicable it is to Exalted.)

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    IMO it breaks the narrative and imagery of the fight which defense stunts are a deceptively key connective tissue for.
    Okay I think I see what you mean, what if it goes like this though. I stunt the attack, and just roll as I'm stunting, they give me their defense, I tell them if it hits, and then they get to describe the result.

    That even gives them more leeway because you get to describe an action knowing you succeeded at it "I reach up and catch the mighty hammer blow with my bare hands, turning it aside and cracking the pavement with its redirected force." Which I guess you could still do with a stunted defense, but it's a lot more awkward to word and if you get hit anyway it's kind of a wasted stunt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sith_Happens
    replied
    IMO it breaks the narrative and imagery of the fight which defense stunts are a deceptively key connective tissue for.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    What breaks if I remove the ability to stunt static values, and reduce the stunt bonuses to 1-2-3 dice?

    I sometimes find it a bit tedious to say "Okay this is the stunted attack, how are you stunting your defense *listens to defensive stunt* okay that's a level one stunt, now what defensive charms/willpower are you spending?"

    I'd much rather "The bladebeak sweeps at you high overhead, feathers shimmering in the noonday sun, what's your defense?" "I'll boost it by 3 with 6 motes, that makes 10"

    I feel it should also help ever so slightly at making lower difficulty rolls more challenging if the stunt bonus is halved. Like a difficulty 3 lock is not quite as easily picked by somebody with 2 Dex and no larceny.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
    Assuming you could prune enough charms from the tree I think that would be okay. You’re going to flatten out a lot of the power that Solars have in particular, but I don’t think it would break much.
    Yeah I think the real complexity comes when deciding how to handle Charms where the narrative effect comes with a dice trick. I'll see case by case I guess

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Assuming you could prune enough charms from the tree I think that would be okay. You’re going to flatten out a lot of the power that Solars have in particular, but I don’t think it would break much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

    The other issue with that is who cares? Are there any antagonists in the game aside from other Solars who specialize in stealth that can even remotely require those kind of insane awareness rolls? A really awesome sneaky enemy might have 11 dice and double 9s to their sneak, and most just have 7-8.

    It’s the same problem with Sail. A Solar sailor takes like 4 charms and can absolutely roll any opposition, then has 20 charms that don’t really help because they always win anyway.
    Yeah I guess this was my intent behind "Take every Dice tricks Charms and fuse them into one, keep the other fun Charms that allows for real new ways of playing".

    For the moment, my current version is this one :

    Solar mastery

    Essence : 1 (Repurchase at 2 and 3). Abilities : Basically all that makes sense
    Cost : 3m
    You gain Double 9 on the roll. (Permanent) You get one free Full Excellency once per scene.
    Repurchase (Essence 2) : You gain (Essence) non-Charm dices on the roll. (Permanent) You can double 8s once per scene.
    Repurchase (Essence 3) : (Permanent) This Charm is now free of motes

    I believe it to be simple enough and express the power of the Solars in a simple way. My only problem is that that there is no "reroll 1s" or "cascading 10s" that seem rather core to the Solar powers in the existing Charms, but I find them too annoying from an ergonomic point of view.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrLoveMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Chausse View Post

    I'm actually fine with the mechanics sometimes confronting the narrative power, but I think Awareness missed some good ideas by going too far with "dice tricks to stealthing character" thing. Whatever I guess just invent some Charms.
    The other issue with that is who cares? Are there any antagonists in the game aside from other Solars who specialize in stealth that can even remotely require those kind of insane awareness rolls? A really awesome sneaky enemy might have 11 dice and double 9s to their sneak, and most just have 7-8.

    It’s the same problem with Sail. A Solar sailor takes like 4 charms and can absolutely roll any opposition, then has 20 charms that don’t really help because they always win anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chausse
    replied
    Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post


    "These benefits do not apply to detecting opponents in stealth"

    It's just such a mood whiplash to go from being Daredevil to it not working on stealth because Game Balance. It's completely a conceit of the mechanics. You can hear animals burrowing underground, conversations through stone walls, ants on a branch, and things below human auditory spectrum, but it gives you no bonus at all on hearing a maid sneak up to your door with a knife in hand, something orders of magnitude louder than hearing a mouse underground.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the spirit of the Awareness line and I'm taking them on my character, but there are some real brick walls in that tree.
    I'm actually fine with the mechanics sometimes confronting the narrative power, but I think Awareness missed some good ideas by going too far with "dice tricks to stealthing character" thing. Whatever I guess just invent some Charms.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sorcerous Overlord
    replied
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

    I read the Keen Hearing and Touch flavour text to mean that it somewhat expands what the ST might be willing to allow a roll for, but mostly it’s the autosuccesses and difficulty manipulation.

    "These benefits do not apply to detecting opponents in stealth"

    It's just such a mood whiplash to go from being Daredevil to it not working on stealth because Game Balance. It's completely a conceit of the mechanics. You can hear animals burrowing underground, conversations through stone walls, ants on a branch, and things below human auditory spectrum, but it gives you no bonus at all on hearing a maid sneak up to your door with a knife in hand, something orders of magnitude louder than hearing a mouse underground.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the spirit of the Awareness line and I'm taking them on my character, but there are some real brick walls in that tree.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X