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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Originally posted by danelsan View Post
    Are there supplemental Charms that enhance unrolled actions? I don't have access to my pdf at the moment. If there aren't, then "creates action or enhances unrolled action" might be distinction enough, with Supplemental Charms enhancing rolled actions.
    Such Charms do exist - Monkey Leap Technique, f'rex.
    Last edited by Irked; 05-08-2016, 09:49 PM.


    Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

    Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

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    • Originally posted by Colin_Fredericks View Post

      I wouldn't put any weight behind what it says on pages 252-253 about reflexive and supplemental charms. Just read the individual charm descriptions and go from there. Only the "only within your Ability" limit and the "create an action" rule that Elfive mentioned are reliably applied across the charm base, and the "create an action" charms are typically spelled out in the text of the charm anyway.
      You can assume that the descriptions given generally apply. They're not absolutes, but when trying to understand how a charm works and what the intention behind it is, you do need to take them into account, it's just that they're just one of several factors you need to consider, and sometimes other factors will outweigh them. For instance, some Supplemental charms that can supplement actions of other abilities say so explicitly and others don't, but you usually want to assume that they can't if they don't say so unless it really seems like the intent behind the charm.

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      • Athletics

        Graceful Crane Stance
        • Have perfect balance.
        • For a scene, balancing actions of any sort do not require a roll and succeed automatically.
        • Very cool.
        Monkey Leap Technique
        • Can leap like a bird (despite the charm name)
        • Can leap forward or up 1 range band. Cost decreases by 1m if used more than once if used in consecutive turns.
        Soaring Crane Leap
        • Catch the wind to slow a fall.
        • Can fall up to 2 range bands and not take damage. Longer falls require charm use once every 3 range bands. Can float between range bands as the Exalt falls, the amount of which can be increased by stunting.
        • Don't like the fuzziness of the stunt bonus.
        • The suggested comboing is quite cool.
        Foe-Vaulting Method
        • Solars can do capoeira.
        • On a successful Dex + Athletics roll while at close range, the Solar shifts position and can make a surprise attack.
        • It doesn't specify when the surprise attack is done. If it's the same round as the charm, does it count as a flurry, as the charm does not supplement the attack itself?
        • Come to think of it, why isn't this a supplemental charm? It supplements movement, surely?
        Lightning Speed
        • The Solar becomes Billy Whizz, with additional anima snazziness.
        • Adds automatic successes and rerolled dice to a rush action or test of speed.
        • Tests of speed aren't mentioned specifically in the extended actions section referenced, but I guess they are a typical example of an extended action.
        Winning Stride Discipline
        • Challenging yourself apparently makes you better at beating other people.
        • in a test of speed (again, feels like a system term but isn't), getting successes gives you motes to spend on Athletics charms, or extra initiative.
        • Part of me thought Lightning Speed + WSD could turn into an initiative-generating engine, but how often are you in a race in combat?
        Increasing Strength Exercise
        • Draw strength from within.
        • Convert motes or initiative into strength up to Essence limit, which also increases decisive base damage.
        • Wouldn't base decisive damage increase anyway if the strength increased from any other source?
        Ten Ox Meditation
        • Solar puffs herself up with Essence, to allow for bigger beast of burden tasks.
        • Convert successes in a Strength + Athletics roll into additional Strength points.
        • The example is great, as the charm rules are difficult to make sense of without it.
        • As the example illustrates, this is NOT a charm that likes to fly solo, because of the dice pool shenanigans.
        • Which, now I think about it, shows the stupidity of the feats of strength rules. If you can generate 20 successes on a strength roll while actually being strength 2, why on earth would you need to have your strength increased?
        Thunderbolt Attack Prana
        • Solar juggles Essence around her system before pumping it into legs in order to blast off. With additional fireworks.
        • Allows a decisive attack on an opponent in another range band (horizontal or vertical), which does double damage.
        • The heads-up to create a signature move is cool. Exalted and Mortal Kombat would get on well, methinks, even if it wasn't an explicit inspiration.
        Feather Foot Style
        • Run across fluid surfaces.
        • The fluff and crunch really blur here. The effect is basically that until we get to the ability to pause on surfaces.
        • This really makes me think about when something is or is not a stunt. Is what Prince Diamond does on p.132 a use of this charm? Does the walk across the river to meet the god count as a stunt? It's described, but it's far from actually impressive, beyond the effect of the charm itself. I couldn't see myself allowing Diamond's player to do that with this charm, if he was just going at walking pace.
        Spider Foot Style
        • The Solar's use Essence to stick to surfaces, and become Spider-Pig.
        • Once again, fluff and crunch blur seriously here.
        Unbound Eagle Approach
        • The Solar separates her Essence from gravity.
        • May pay extra to extend Soaring Crane Leap's gliding
        Leaping Tiger Attack
        • The Solar stretches the universe like a rubber band and pings herself towards her opponent.
        • From anywhere up to medium range, immediately move to close range, and get various damage bonuses depending on the type of attack being done.
        • The description made me imagine almost flying past your opponent...
        • This is one hell of a movement rate, but it says nothing about being allowed to disengage one opponent and hit another.
        Racing Hare Method
        • Solar moves really quickly, "as if in a waking dream".
        • Out of combat, can move up to 3 range bands per turn. In combat, no extra movement but double-9s to rush actions and initiative from 10s. Interaction with Triumph-Forged God-Body for more bonus dice.
        Onrush Burst Method
        • Learn to channel your competitive edge for Essence-based goodies.
        • On a successful rush, gain 3 motes to be spent on Athletics charms for a turn.
        • Are there many "gain motes to spend on a specific thing" charms? Because Exalted didn't really give players enough to keep track of before...
        • Wow... only just noticed the permanent effect. That's really neat.
        Arete-Driven Marathon Stride
        • Feel the Essence of your opponents, and use that to keep up with them.
        • Gain an additional success in tests of speed or rushes for every 10 your opponent rolls.
        • Another permanent success generator.
        Armour-Eating Strike
        • Channel Essence to hit harder.
        • Ignore (Strength) levels of hardness.
        • Isn't the description of this charm basically the whole essence of Melee charms? If so, what's this doing in Athletics?
        Thunder's Might
        • Get an internal haemorrhage of Essence.
        • Re-roll all non-successes on a feat of strength.
        • A neat charm, fairly priced I guess. The pedant in me wants to ask if you reroll the failures in the reroll if you activate the charm again, but I suppose not.
        Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique
        • "spiritual pressure" in the Exalt's legs becomes a rocket booster.
        • Can leap up to 4 range bands forward, or 3 upward. Cannot leap for fewer than 3 range bands. Must disengage before it's activated. Lift-off causes knockdown for all "minor" opponents within close range.
        • If this one specifies that you have to disengage to use it, I'm assuming that you don't have to for Leaping Tiger Attack... In that case LTA = the Essence-fueled pinball of death charm.
        Eagle Wing Style
        • How many more creative descriptions can we have of "an Exalt pumps Essence into their legs and pushes off"?
        • Move 2 range bands upwards, and can continue to move a range band a turn if the Exalt burns more Essence. Once attack is joined, can remain in the air but doesn't need to expend motes. Discounted activation if combined with Mountain Leap Technique.
        • "Lastly, the Solar can also channel a burst of speed for two motes, allowing her to rush or disengage from appropriate distances." Isn't this whole charm describing an elaborate rush technique aimed at flyers? And how on earth is it meant to help with disengage? This sentence confuses me.
        • If it's activated as part of Mountain Leap Technique, does it still cost willpower? It's unclear.
        Demon-Wasting Rush
        • No flavour text.
        • Can attempt to rush from medium range.
        Hurricane Spirit Speed
        • Be like a storm (or Vinnie Jones) and gain unstoppable momentum as you run.
        • May spend initiative to gain successes in a rush or test of speed.
        Godspeed Steps
        • Zip forward like some fast-moving thing, except that a pulse is involved this time.
        • Can attempt a rush on an opponent up to 3 bands away. If successful, immediately comes into close range, and removes the flurry penalty for combining an attack and a rush. Can be combined with Racing Hare Method to move up to 4 bands.
        • Sounds neat, but it's struck me to ask how often this sort of situation comes up? You have to buy 3 prerquisite charms to get to this, and then the charm itself. Is it really worth all that effort?
        • General Note: I cheated and used MaddLetter's charm cascades to figure that out - I'm never using the pre-requisite lists in the book, as they require too much flicking/scrolling back.
        Power-Suffusing Form Technique
        • Get a golden power outline that makes you stronger.
        • Adds non-charm bonus dice to feats of strength.
        Legion Aurochs Method
        • Solars are STRONG!
        • Athletics excellency cost reduced for feats of strength.
        Triumph-Forged God-Body
        • Training is good for you!
        • Gain double 9s to every Athletics roll
        One Extra Step
        • No flavour text.
        • Gain a free extra move once per scene.
        Bonfire Anima Wings
        • Exalts get prehensile animas.
        • When using Eagle-Wings Style at Bonfire anima level, attacks generate extra offensive motes.
        Aegis of Unstoppable Force
        • Permanently reduce the difficulty of all feats of strength.
        • Is it just me, or are the high-end Athletics charms all about getting passive buffs?
        Living Wind Approach
        • They also more regularly drop flavour text.
        • Once per scene, automatically succeed at a rush.
        Nine Aeons Thew
        • The Exalt becomes a LEGEND OFMIGHT!
        • Get double 7s on a feat of strength, and always meet a strength prerequisite.
        • This is awesome. I love it.
        That's it for Athletics charms. Overall they're quite neat, although the advanced layers just seem to be "improve the lower-level stuff" to a large degree. Although a meaningful degree, it must be said. They're also fairly clear on their system vs flavour stuff for the most part, but as Irked said, and "Obvious" keyword would have been super helpful in earmarking these side-manifestations as having an in-game effect.

        Next up, Awareness.
        Last edited by Xerxes; 05-09-2016, 02:04 PM.


        A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
        Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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        • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
          Wouldn't base decisive damage increase anyway if the strength increased from any other source?
          Actually, your Decisive Damage Pool is your Initiative. Strength plays into WITHERING damage, but not Decisive.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • Making your decisive damage work like withering is a fairly common charm effect, come to think about it. There's at least one that gives double 10s, one that adds strength, one that adds extra successes on the roll to hit as bonus dice...

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            • Is what Prince Diamond does on p.132 a use of this charm? Does the walk across the river to meet the god count as a stunt? It's described, but it's far from actually impressive, beyond the effect of the charm itself. I couldn't see myself allowing Diamond's player to do that with this charm, if he was just going at walking pace.
              Nah, he's using a Spirit Charm he's learned from a water god or elemental to walk on water.


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              • Foe-Vaulting Method isn't movement in the sense of a "movement action" -- it doesn't move you a range band, you might just be hopping from the front of someone to the back of someone. (Some movement actions don't move you a range band, but they're always called out explicitly as move actions in that case.) It's reflexive because the "vault" action is created by the Charm, which also means that you can do it, see how it goes, then take your normal action immediately thereafter (typically to shank a dude).

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                • Awareness should be up later today.

                  Is the charm-by-charm walkthrough helpful? It means I can only work on it at specific points in the day, as note-taking is inefficient and slow for charm-by-charm. I could speed things up and only note what kumps out at me, but it'll be much less thorough. Which way of doing it would be most useful?
                  Last edited by Xerxes; 05-11-2016, 03:54 AM.


                  A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                  Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                    Awareness should be up later today.

                    Is the charm-by-charm walkthrough helpful? It means I can only work on it at specific points in the day, as note-taking is inefficient and slow for charm-by-charm. I could speed things up and only note what kumps out at me, but it'll be much less thorough. Which way of doing it would be most useful?
                    I'd say charm by charm. Gives more of an idea on how some work and warning signs for those of us who might have new players.

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                    • Charm by charm is what I think would be most useful, but if section by section allows you to not get burnt out then go with it.

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                      • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                        Is the charm-by-charm walkthrough helpful? It means I can only work on it at specific points in the day, as note-taking is inefficient and slow for charm-by-charm. I could speed things up and only note what kumps out at me, but it'll be much less thorough. Which way of doing it would be most useful?
                        I'm liking the charm-by-charm runthrough a lot and don't mind waiting longer for it, but you're the one putting the work in, so I certainly don't mind it being the other way -- the thread is still very thorough by any standard!

                        Comment


                        • Awareness

                          You know, I'd kind of like an introduction to each of these sections, with a brief discussion of their themes and what they can do, in very general terms. Although that might be just because I'm reading them in a block rather than as reference. But having a section that says "these charms do X, in Y way" would be really helpful in thinking about which trees to pick.

                          Sensory Acuity Prana
                          • Essence heightens the senses.
                          • Double 9s on Awareness rolls, some synergy with... something that doesn't look familiar.
                          • Good clarity on no sensory overload.
                          Surprise Anticipation Method

                          • Sense bad stuff and be guarded against it, even if you don't know it's there.
                          • Get motes of Essence for Awareness charms from some awareness dice, use Awareness charms in any state, including asleep and unconscious.
                          • Yay, more this-thing-only dice! More to keep track of! Has anyone seen characters with more than one source of this sort of thing, and is it difficult to keep track of? I'm genuinely worried about managing that properly.
                          • Good clarification on the no-cost!
                          Keen Sight Technique

                          • Solar's vision is sharper than a mortals.
                          • Succeed at some vision-based awareness tests with no roll. Get bonuses to see hidden things and notice lots of Larceny-based stuff going on.See in dim conditions like it was daylight. Get reduced vision penalties for things like fog. Increased visual range.
                          • Keen (Sense) Technique charms can all be activated together by paying the full cost of each, despite being Simple charms.
                          • If the 6m version of this charm extends the duration to indefinite, doesn't that mean that you just pay 6 motes and it's on forever? That's a little pointless without committing the motes, isn't it?
                          • Welp, that's it for awareness charms! One charm for each sense does it all! Oh wait...


                          Unswerving Eye Method
                          • The gaze of a Solar cannot be dissuaded.
                          • Revert double successes of a stealth-based action to single successes. Even magic.
                          • Good clarification that this only applies to the Solar with the charm, not to everyone.
                          • Given that charms like this have an activation cost, isn't that in itself a bit of a giveaway even if the stealth succeeds?, "well, I just lost some Essence for no reason, guess there's something weird going down!"
                          Keen Taste & Smell Technique

                          • Solars can flawlessly identify tastes and smells.
                          • Know individuals by scent alone. know how long ago they were there. Get bonuses to Survival rolls for finding food, tracking, or finding water. Create a "scent library", based on intimacies and anything the ST says you can add. Create a taste index in the same way, although more ST discretion required.
                          • I kind of want to build a character around this charm; some kind of ex-slave desperate to experience everything, particularly fine dining. I imagine he's really self-centred though. That doesn't feel like wholly Exalt material.
                          Genius Palate Summation

                          • Solar can taste the emotions of the chef through tasting the food they made.
                          • Automatic successes on a read intentions roll to determine their emotional state. One bite/sip only required.
                          Foe-Scenting Method

                          • Your nose is like a blood-hound's, as far as hiding people are concerned.
                          • Know how many people are in a room, and tally it with how many you can see. Auto-identify people in your scent library. Know what kind of a thing unknown scents belong to (person, beast, spirit etc), adding one success to attempts to detect unseen people, and any subsequent Join Battle roll.
                          • Spirits have a scent?
                          • Why does this augment Join Battle?
                          Keen Hearing & Touch Technique

                          • Listen like an owl, feel like a spider.
                          • Identify known surfaces with a light touch, hear lower frequencies than most humans. Hear through walls. Succeed at certain hearing & touch actions without a roll, lower others' difficulty by 1, and get an automatic success for them. Relate it to a speciality, and it's suddenly difficulty 1.
                          • Does the difficulty of opposed rolls (vs someone trying not to be heard etc) also drop by 1? Not sure if this has any particular interactions on vs target number rolls.
                          • This feels crazy powerful, for its level.
                          Studied Ear Espial

                          • Ears are finely tuned to motion.
                          • Gain a bonus when trying to detect stealthed movement.
                          Eyeless Harbinger Awareness
                          • Your sense of touch is attuned to the world.
                          • Stealthy characters trying to sneak around in contact with a surface the Solar is in contact with suffer a penalty.
                          • The range clarifications are helpful, and then seemingly tossed out the window when combined with Unsurpassed Hearing & Touch.
                          • Nothing about this charm specifically addresses floors. Does it apply to floors? How far? This struck me as one of the most broken applications for this charm, and it's never even brought up.
                          Space-Saving Concession Sidebar

                          • Shouldn't this have been part of an intro the Awareness charms?
                          • The extension cost seems massively cheap for a multi-charm character.
                          Awakening Eye

                          • Start to get second sight as your senses converge.
                          • Get a really long string of bonuses to Join Battle, with 10s being converted into successes (are they charm or non-charm?) that can be used on charms to detect unseen enemies during the combat.
                          • It's a neat power, but it's yet another thing to keep track of.
                          Inner Eye Focus

                          • Vision corrects itself, with falsehood falling away.
                          • Cascading (Essence) rerolls of non-successes on contested rolls vs Stealth or Larceny. Can also be used to Join Battle.
                          • This is difficult for me to visualise, but I can see it being quite smooth now I get that you're not just constantly rerolling non-successes.
                          Scent-Honing Prana

                          • The Lawgiver's notice is a black hole.
                          • Any 1s rolled by a stealthing character convert to 10s on the Solar's Awareness roll, and 2s act as 9s. These can be doubled by various things, including Sensory Acuity Prana. Can be done after an opponent's roll (but can the player see it?).
                          • I would expect the cost to be much higher for a choose-to-use-after-seeing style power.
                          Living Pulse Perception

                          • Exalt senses slight disruptions in the air. But no relation to life, despite the name.
                          • In an enclosed space, get 1 automatic success to Awareness rolls to detect another character, or Join Battle.
                          • This is PERMANENT? Wow...
                          Roused Dragon Detection

                          • The the world through its Essence when fighting blind.
                          • Strike a hidden opponent without knocking them out of stealth, but force them to move.
                          • This feels a little... weird. Like cat & mouse.
                          Unsurpassed Sight Discipline

                          • Get super-vision.
                          • Upgrades Keen Sight Technique, but is otherwise undefined, beyond being able to see in darkness like it's dense fog. I assume you can see tiny details etc, but the fluff-crunch boundary is pretty much absent here. Cost of sight-based Awareness charms is reduced while KST is active, to any awareness charm if you have the full Keen Sense set.
                          • Why does that last point apply to everything? Are you assuming that KST is a pre-requisite for the others? It's really not.
                          Unsurpassed Taste and Smell Discipline
                          • No flavour text (oh the irony).
                          • Keen Taste & Smell upgrade. Add Perception number of successes to attempts to track or hunt, Can scent moods. Add scentless and tasteless things to the smell and taste library. Add things to taste library by smell. Identify poisons without consuming them. Bleeding characters are easier to find.
                          • This has driven home to me that upkeeping the taste and smell libraries is going to be a nightmare. I may houserule that all scents and tastes just stay in there, rather than disappearing after a time. This charm allows far too many to be hoovered up to worry about when some fade and others don't.
                          Unsurpassed Hearing and Touch Discipline
                          • No flavour text.
                          • Listen to very far away sounds (whispered conversation a mile away example given). Read a text by the feel of the ink on the paper. Pay a mote and visualise an object being touched. Pay a mote to feel the air for a way out of somewhere, even in pitch darkness. Commit motes to hear a conversation through vibrations in an adjoining surface. Commit motes and pay willpower to hear a past conversation or event in the local area.
                          • Wouldn't the "hear a conversation through a door" be moot, given that they can hear whispered conversations a mile away?
                          • This is a really awesome charm. I can see it ruining stories though. And possibly overlapping with Investigation charms a ton.
                          Dedicated Unerring Ear

                          • Hear a voice you know from far, far away.
                          • Have Keen Hearing & Touch active and then become aware of any time you are addressed by someone for whom you have a major or greater intimacy. Lasts indefinitely.
                          • I have another way to leech away a player's motes!
                          Eye of the Unconquered Sun

                          • See EVERYTHING while the whole world knows what you are. Caste mark blazing and everything. And you are possibly a white-eyed version of Cyclops, the flavour text doesn't mention that but the rules imply it.
                          • Cancels all Stealth and mark-muting effects on the character. Opaque objects become transparent, stealth by others autofails. Effects go to long range, characters must dodge to avoid. Everyone who you see knows they've been seen, because you are a magical lighthouse now, despite it not being mentioned earlier.
                          I really like lots of these charms, but I can see them being very ST-dependent on whether they are worth it. I suppose it's a big fat signal to do more detail descriptions if your players take Awareness charms. It felt like several sidebars here could have been flagged as an extra keyword or formed part of the general Charms rules.

                          It also only goes up to Essence 4. I don't have a huge problem with this, but it does rather make Supernal awareness pointless, particularly as several of the advanced charms upgrade the simpler ones.


                          I've realised that I have zero gauge on what non-Essence costs mean, and whether they're worth it. The motes comparison is relatively simple, but when initiative and willpower come into the equation, it gets far harder to compare. I guess that's not a bad thing unless you're desparately trying to optimise, but it's something to note.

                          Next up, Brawl. If only I can successfully grapple this text...


                          A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                          Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

                          Comment


                          • If the 6m version of this charm extends the duration to indefinite, doesn't that mean that you just pay 6 motes and it's on forever? That's a little pointless without committing the motes, isn't it?

                            You always have to commit indefinite charms. And scene-long charms for that matter.



                            I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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                            • Originally posted by Gayo View Post
                              Foe-Vaulting Method isn't movement in the sense of a "movement action" -- it doesn't move you a range band, you might just be hopping from the front of someone to the back of someone. (Some movement actions don't move you a range band, but they're always called out explicitly as move actions in that case.) It's reflexive because the "vault" action is created by the Charm, which also means that you can do it, see how it goes, then take your normal action immediately thereafter (typically to shank a dude).
                              I have the unpleasant feeling that we are about to disagree once again Gayo and you might, once again, call my query unworthy of official writer attention, but what the hey, I'm just looking for answers same as everyone.

                              Since Reflexive Charms Create Actions, wouldn't the attack described in Foe-Vaulting Method be an extra attack (as in you can attack before, use foe vaulting method, create an attack and attack again), as is the case with a lot of low essence extra attack charms from Melee and Brawl?

                              prototype00

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                              • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                                Awakening Eye
                                ...
                                Get a really long string of bonuses to Join Battle, with 10s being converted into successes (are they charm or non-charm?) that can be used on charms to detect unseen enemies during the combat.
                                If something doesn't specify that the successes or dice it grants are non-charm, they aren't.

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