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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Will listen to it once I've finished the read-through. Part of the reason for doing this is to have fresh eyes on the book, & I don't want to prejudice that. I've been avoiding reading threads on here related to chapters I haven't read yet (martial arts, sorcery, evocations & QCs primarily) for the same reason.

    Also, if I have hours to kill, I'll generally spend them reading the rules & taking notes. Reading this thing through eats your life.


    A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
    Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fata-Ku View Post
      DMM is pretty broad, and doesn't use specific definition of curse because there are so many different "sources" of curse-like effects that listing them all would be less than useful.

      Basically, the Charm is mainly about reality-warping (i.e. Fairfolk and probably Sorcerers) and Fate-Weaving (i.e. Sidereals and probably Getimians). The reason why curse isn't a system term is is because for FF it's basically an innate power to "shape" you into a frog. For sidereals, it's an application of bureaucracy and prayer to weave the loom such that a tragedy happens to you. On top of that, Sidereal Martial Arts can unweave your attributes and so can Sorcery.

      So basically it's a counter to whatever would magically alter your character sheet against your will.
      None of that is called out in the text, but as experienced Exalted players drawing from 2nd Edition knowledge, we both know that, and that's the problem. This is a crunch-heavy system that handed us a very broad power that clearly has crunchy applications, but none of the specificity necessary to implement it. It makes sense to someone who is already immersed in Exalted, of course. But does it really make sense to somebody who is new, or somebody who played 1st Ed. back in 2003? Hrmm...yeah, no.

      Your last sentence is more helpful in adjudicating the effects of this charm than its entire text in the book. And "listen to this podcast to understand the game," is more evidence of the problem, lol.

      Anyway, I'll leave that, here. This WIR is too useful to derail.

      Comment


      • Fate-weaving and reality-warping are explicitly called out in the text. It's not a stretch to look at the Fate-weaver an Reality-Warper antagonists and conclude that there's a connection.

        I'm not blaming xerxes though, because they haven't gotten to it yet.


        Bearer of the legacy of Trauma Bear
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        • Originally posted by Totentanz View Post
          This WIR is too useful to derail.
          ​Thanks! But what's a WIR?

          Originally posted by Fata-Ku View Post
          Fate-weaving and reality-warping are explicitly called out in the text. It's not a stretch to look at the Fate-weaver an Reality-Warper antagonists and conclude that there's a connection.

          I'm not blaming xerxes though, because they haven't gotten to it yet.
          I'll get there, and it will all make sense when the rules present ST's Rule-Cohering Kata, which seems to be what everyone here uses to make sense of it all... I'm looking forward to having that charm.
          Last edited by Xerxes; 05-25-2016, 05:44 AM.


          A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
          Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
            ​Thanks! But what's a WIR?
            Wreck-It Ralph, of course.

            Nah, I think it stands for Watch It Read, a mockup of Watch It Played, which are youtube videos where you get to see people trying games.

            Comment


            • Investigation

              Watchman's Infallible Eye
              • Exalt is very aware of her surroundings.
              • Know when the case scene action should be used, and a vague indication as to why. Can be used to generate reasons for investigations.
              • My previous hang-ups about investigation remain, and are amplified by this charm. Knowing why to perform an investigation and what you will find are inextricably linked. Keeping things from players with Investigate-centric PCs feels nigh impossible, making investigation-centric stories boring, or really difficult to pick up the pieces. If a newly-Exalted character, who knows nothing of the Sidereals, needs to do a case scene action to find some weird and wonderful traces left behind by one of the Chosen of Maidens (or whatever they're called), the player will either have no clue whatsoever about the metaphysical nonsense left behind, or need to be basically told the answer. This sort of set-up depends on out-of-character setting knowledge to drive the story forward.
              • Also, if this is reflexive, does it automatically carry out the recommended action? Reflexive charms create actions (apparently), but this seems to only suggest that actions be used.
              Inquisitor’s Unfailing Notice
              • Exalt knows when the best time to commit a crime is.
              • Notice whenever a character uses a Larceny action in her presence. Get Essence-based bonuses in related Awareness rolls. Only works on disguises if the action depends on the disguise to work.
              • The flavour for this charm sounds like it should give bonuses to Larceny rolls. If you know the best time to do it, you do it then. But is that a synergy too far?
              Crafty Observation Method
              • Solar can reconstruct the physical processes behind a scene by examining the evidence. Knowing what kind of knife caused a particular stab-wound, different strokes behind different patterns of blood-spattering etc. Possibly even detect what Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky were up to.
              • Double 9s on a case scene action, gaining Essence-based auto successes, and double 9s.
              • Now THIS is what I would expect from an investigation charm! Although from the description of the case scene action on p.225, it rather feels like this is assumed to be active by the case scene action itself. Knowing that the yellow mud came from the docks seems perfectly reasonable to give with this charm, not as a basic case scene action. But I guess that's my own hang-up.
              Divine Induction Technique
              • Draw wisdom from Heaven itself.
              • Free full investigation excellency once per scene. May reset when the character succeeds at a difficulty X-1 or greater investigate action.
              • Can this charm help reset itself? Going by usual reset conventions I'd say not, but it doesn't expressly say "unaided by this charm".
              • If the charm has the mute keyword (as per the charm text), why isn't it so in the Keywords section? Does it have it or not?
              Evidence-Discerning Method
              • Flavour-rules blur.
              • Sort through physical evidence to build a profile of the one who left it. Misleading evidence increases the difficulty, but extra successes can override this. Exalt may repeatedly use this charm to build a full picture, but this needs enough material to be able to do so. Automatically notices any characters that match the profile she's generated, or events that match the behaviour profile.
              Judge’s Ear Technique
              • Flavour-crunch blur.
              • Detect truth and falsehood, but cannot tell a false statement which the speaker believes to be true. Can detect half-truths, and know which bits of speech are not true or omitting stuff. Magic which hides this kind of thing is an opposed roll with auto-successes based on the character's Essence, and opponent's 1s converting to 10s for the Solar.
              Miraculous Stunning Insight
              • PC makes fabulous deductions.
              • May enhance a single Investigation roll with double 8s.
              • Pedant here - you shouldn't have to roll to make deductions, they are generally obvious. Induction, however, is another matter entirely. Sherlock Holmes was falsely advertised.
              Watchful Justiciar’s Eye
              • Solar can sense inconsistencies in someone's behaviour.
              • When a character has been profiled, the Solar can tell if they act outside of that profile in a scene, and use this charm to tell if that out-of-profile behaviour is normal for the character or not. Does not say why they're acting out of character, but should disclose how the actions are different - how a character "should" act in the profile vs how they are acting.
              Irresistible Questioning Technique
              • The Solar always gets the truth. With questions.
              • Opposed roll when asking questions. Success means that characters must answer truthfully to the fullest extent of their knowledge. Additional successes grant additional questions that may be asked in the same way. Characters may spend a willpower to resist answering one question, but it does not work against multiple questions, or even the same question repeated. No willpower required if the character can leave the scene freely or is in combat. Can only be used on a character once per session.
              • I would expect the Willpower defence to at least last a scene against the question, otherwise it compels players to ask a question multiple times simply to burn through NPCs' willpower. I can see this charm making mystery stories really hard to run.
              Dauntless Inquisitor Attitude
              • Exalt is relentlessly after the truth.
              • Gains Essence automatic successes to investigation rolls for a scene.
              Evidence-Restoring Prana
              • Sense the flow between objects, and when that flow is disturbed.
              • When investigating, activate and sense this disruption. Pay motes to touch the flow, and perceive the evidence in its complete state. Essence committed for as long as the Solar wants to examine the object.
              Ten Magistrate Eyes
              • Solar attunes to the links between objects.
              • Supplements a case scene or profile action, Action becomes infallible and takes seconds. Multiple successes yields logic trains and leads to characters, places and events that will trip Watchman's Infallible Eye. Some awesome synchronicity with Awareness charms in the case of profile actions.
              Unknown Wisdom Epiphany
              • Solar can attune to the Essence flows of a place and visualise previous events. Seen through the eyes of a particular participant. Flavour-crunch blurring.
              • Beyond a requirement to wander round and touch stuff, there is little system-y stuff here. Is there no chance of failure for this action, for example? No requirement to give clues, or bonuses to profiling actions? All this is implied, but not stated.
              • I'm not sure that flavour and crunch is a meaningful distinction any more... help!
              Enlightened Touch Insight
              • Touch an object and gain a "psychometric vision related to the object".
              • Read Intentions on the object to get the emotion of the person who placed the object where it is resting.
              • This is AFTER Unknown Wisdom Epiphany? It feels more basic. Certainly more grounded rather than the "time travel vision" of its prerequisite.
              • This has the kind of systems stuff I would expect UWE to also have.
              Judge-General’s Stance
              • Once per day, spend willpower to reset any currently unusable Investigation charms.
              • Are there that many of these? Most of the reset durations feel scene-long, making this somewhat moot.
              Empathic Recall Discipline
              • Looking at evidence allows the Solar to know the perpetrator's perspective.
              • Read Intentions on evidence to know what the perpetrator intended to do by committing the action examined.
              Mind-Manse Meditation
              • Build an evidence archive in your head.
              • May recall any piece of evidence collected in relation to any case, compressing the time it takes at a rate of (Essence) hours work into 10 seconds. May be used once per story.
              • Can other Investigation charms be used on the memory of objects already examined? If so this is super-powerful.
              I liked this tree, but felt it was a bit too short. That might be me now expecting Brawl-size monstrosities as standard, but it was also quite narrow in focus. It may be to do with how I parse "information gathering" activities, but I would expect some charms to supplement knowing who to ask to get information and the like, narrowing down the "we stake out all the local bars to find the killer" type stuff. But instead it's all super Sherlock. Which is fine, but not really what I expected. I'm also still leery about the case scene action as a whole - several of the lower-level charms grant abilities that I read as being part of the action itself in RAW. Although I thoroughly agree that the kind of actions described below in charms territory.

              Big letter jump to Larceny now!
              Last edited by Xerxes; 05-25-2016, 08:07 AM. Reason: Usual spacing rubbish


              A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
              Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

              Comment


              • WIR stands for "Where I Read" in my experience. Or yeah I guess "Watch It Read" would be perfectly cromulent too.

                Comment


                • Usually it's Where I Read, yeah, as in people will start threads on other forums with titles like Where I Read Exalted 3rd Edition. Also, Where I Watch, and Where I Play, although the latter is usually called a Let's Play instead.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                    Investigation
                    ...
                    I liked this tree, but felt it was a bit too short. That might be me now expecting Brawl-size monstrosities as standard, but it was also quite narrow in focus. It may be to do with how I parse "information gathering" activities, but I would expect some charms to supplement knowing who to ask to get information and the like, narrowing down the "we stake out all the local bars to find the killer" type stuff. But instead it's all super Sherlock. Which is fine, but not really what I expected. I'm also still leery about the case scene action as a whole - several of the lower-level charms grant abilities that I read as being part of the action itself in RAW. Although I thoroughly agree that the kind of actions described below in charms territory.
                    ...
                    A fair few of the charm trees seem to be pushing towards specific character archetypes, rather than simply offering generic powers. I also got the Sherlock vibe (specifically the silly-level genius of the current BBC show) from the tree. I won't mention others, but I'm curious as to what you see.

                    Comment


                    • I can say that as a storyteller? Watchman's Infallible Eye is a blessing in disguise. Many times in my weekly game, I was able to help ensure that the PCs remained more or less on track by noting to the Investigation-using Night "Oh BTW, your Plot Sense is tingling whenever you look at [NPC of Interest]" or "Hey, your Plot Sense tells you something is off with this room"

                      ... Then again, giving the players clues doesn't always help. True story: I had set up a situation where an NPC was being puppeteered when she was sleeping to go out and sabotage a ward keeping a Raksha Noble sealed away. I put in clues such as "Tracked dry dirt on the floor, when the owner swept the previous night", and "[NPC] is wearing her boots when she gets out of bed"

                      The players all noticed the hints... But not ONE of them questioned "Wait, why did [NPC] still have her boots on?" And there weren't any other clues I had to give.

                      That's why an Investigation Charm of "Draw Conclusions" might be helpful, because some players just space on connecting the dots.


                      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                        I can say that as a storyteller? Watchman's Infallible Eye is a blessing in disguise. Many times in my weekly game, I was able to help ensure that the PCs remained more or less on track by noting to the Investigation-using Night "Oh BTW, your Plot Sense is tingling whenever you look at [NPC of Interest]" or "Hey, your Plot Sense tells you something is off with this room"

                        ... Then again, giving the players clues doesn't always help. True story: I had set up a situation where an NPC was being puppeteered when she was sleeping to go out and sabotage a ward keeping a Raksha Noble sealed away. I put in clues such as "Tracked dry dirt on the floor, when the owner swept the previous night", and "[NPC] is wearing her boots when she gets out of bed"

                        The players all noticed the hints... But not ONE of them questioned "Wait, why did [NPC] still have her boots on?" And there weren't any other clues I had to give.

                        That's why an Investigation Charm of "Draw Conclusions" might be helpful, because some players just space on connecting the dots.
                        My players too have occasionally missed clues I as ST thought were obvious, but if none of them have Investigation charms... the story still needs to go on. So to me this seems like something that should go in the Storytelling chapter - "how to run a mystery" - than something that should be a charm. There are a couple of other effects (not very many, but a few) like that - tools that a storyteller needs (or would be nice to have) in their toolbox that are listed as charms. Am I not supposed to tell people when someone's acting suspicious / out of character unless they buy the charm that lets them notice?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BlueWinds View Post

                          My players too have occasionally missed clues I as ST thought were obvious, but if none of them have Investigation charms... the story still needs to go on. So to me this seems like something that should go in the Storytelling chapter - "how to run a mystery" - than something that should be a charm. There are a couple of other effects (not very many, but a few) like that - tools that a storyteller needs (or would be nice to have) in their toolbox that are listed as charms. Am I not supposed to tell people when someone's acting suspicious / out of character unless they buy the charm that lets them notice?
                          This is one place I think the Ex3 charm design might be teaching people to see charms where they should be seeing RP 101.

                          You don't need a charm for the PC to know something. You need the ST to decide the character would notice something, even if the player doesn't and call for a Perception+whatever roll to have them notice it. Generally, even declaring the roll will clue players in that they should pay some attention, and then you direct them back to the boot prints, and suddenly the game is back on track.

                          The alternative is to design stories such that they don't derail the instant your players miss something. That's doable sometimes, but...no plan survives contact with the players.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                            I can say that as a storyteller? Watchman's Infallible Eye is a blessing in disguise. Many times in my weekly game, I was able to help ensure that the PCs remained more or less on track by noting to the Investigation-using Night "Oh BTW, your Plot Sense is tingling whenever you look at [NPC of Interest]" or "Hey, your Plot Sense tells you something is off with this room" ...
                            I love that Charm. It's a good way to get some narrative hook and push things along and also has had some cool moments where you can describe something happening like from a movie or anime or something.

                            And stuff.


                            And stuff.
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                            • When my players are not reaching the "correct" conclusions from the clues provided I tell them to roll Intelligence+Investigation and give them the solution if they succeed.

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                              • Originally posted by Korusef View Post
                                When my players are not reaching the "correct" conclusions from the clues provided I tell them to roll Intelligence+Investigation and give them the solution if they succeed.
                                Which is a perfectly valid way to handle it at your table. However, the rules as written do not assume the ST will do such a thing, so the presence of a Charm such as Watchman's Infallible Eye is valuable for RAW table play.


                                DrLoveMonkey - "On the other hand having a warhammer that's basically a steel beer keg on the end of a seven foot pole is fucking awesome."

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