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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • I've started running Elsewhere kind of like the sword Oblivious in Goblins. Basically you put into Elsewhere and it is immediately retrieved by the next time it would be removed from Elsewhere without passing through any time in between. Well that's how I'm running it right now, might change it later if Lunars still end up with those charms that let them create extra dimensional villages in Elsewhere.


    • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post

      I like the idea that Elsewhere is more of a state than a place. The state of not being anywhere. If Creation was running on a computer, and each object had its own location variable, Elsewhere would be like leaving that variable blank. So if you're not somewhere, you're Elsewhere.

      But it's probably not really worth that amount of thought. In general, stuff like Elsewhere works best when not contemplated.
      Once upon a once, Neph described the way aspects of Creation worked in a way that really boiled down to set theory (though he didn't word it quite that way). Everything in Creation has a set of universes it can interact with - so, for instance, a normal Creation denizen has {Creation} as his set, and a ghost has {Underworld}. In Shadowlands, Creation = Undereworld, and so the two beings can interact. If you're in regular Creation but have Spirit-Cutting Attack up, your set becomes something like {Creation, Underworld, Dematerialized Plane}, and so on.

      This came up because the Ebon Dragon had the power to banish things into a darkness beyond the world, and it turns out that that translates to making your interaction set {}. I imagine Elsewhere could be handled similarly, if one ever really wanted to think about the metaphysics of it.
      </really, really tangential>

      Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

      Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)


      • You always know you're into a good setting when set theory helps explain it...

        Incidentally, I'm away for the weekend, & while I've finished reading Linguistics through I can't type up my notes until Monday.
        Last edited by Xerxes; 05-28-2016, 09:46 AM.

        A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
        Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.


        • Linguistics

          Written vs Spoken Effects Sidebar
          • Starting off with a sidebar on general principles for the tree. I like this.
          • Good reminder that written stuff in Exalted isn't Creation email.
          • Clarification that all written magic has to be done before the work is finished. This is good. I admit, I am intentionally misreading at this point, "doing things as they finish", something that both this and Craft have in common, is something I don't like, as it doesn't reflect the process the character goes through and is not a useful abstraction in any way, as far as I'm concerned.
          • Is the last sentence implying that any spoken social influence is based on Linguistics, rather than things like Presence etc? In fact, given the wealth of other abilities to select, I can't think of a spoken use for Linguistics, particularly as it doesn't reflect learning other languages. Yes, it's done to be expressive, but it feels like there's a ton of overlap with Socialise and Presence. Some clarity would be really helpful, particularly as the ability description doesn't reference its use in speech at all.
          Whirling Brush Method
          • Exalted can write really quickly.
          • Write a full-page letter in seconds. Copy huge books in a day. Perfectly transcribe spoken conversations as they happen. Quickly copy maps. Activate this charm multiple times in a scene at reduced cost.
          Flawless Brush Discipline
          • Solar concentrates her talent into a "perfect expression of form".
          • Perfectly copy any written work, to the extent that it takes magic to tell apart. Can forge signatures, but not seals and other bits that are affixed to a document. Impossible to tell through normal means. Magical attempts to detect it have a TN equal to the Solar's Linguistics + Essence at time of writing.
          • The "at time of writing" part irks me, as it's yet another piece of bookkeeping related to charms.
          Letter-Within-A-Letter Technique
          • Flavour-crunch blurring. Exalt can craft a hidden message through allusions word choices.
          • Must be familiar with the recipient. Can be no longer than half the words in the cover document. Code-breaking magic costs more to use on this charm.
          Subtle Speech Method
          • Flavour-crunch blurring. Solar speaks in a way to hide a message in words that have nothing to do with what she is saying.
          • Only intended recipients understand. Cannot communicate across language barriers.
          Flowing Elegant Hand
          • Exalt hones her words with her mind, so they are ultra-precise and pristine.
          • Written linguistics actions get double 9s. My repurchase at later Essence ratings to get double 8s and double 7s.
          • This is the first time I've really seen the repurchasing doubles. Now I see it, it feels like such an obvious thing for many abilities to have. Why don't more have it? *throws toys out of pram*
          Incidentally, I like how all these are are starting charms. I can see them each growing into their own distinct forms further down the charm tree quite easily.

          Artistic Talent Sidebar
          • Further elaboration on the distinction between Linguistics and Craft, particularly in the blurred line that is calligraphy.
          • Do I spot a second reference to Chompy?
          Strange Tongue Understanding
          • Solar channels Essence through her language centres, which lets her understand lots.
          • May interpret statements made in a language she doesn't know. Must interpret each statement separately, which needs separate charm activations. May also reduce the Guile of someone using obtuse language to conceal or inflate an issue by 1.
          • Why does this charm specify the cost for activations, when charms that are similar just require motes to be committed? Although in fairness the cost is negligible.
          Poetic Expression Style
          • Solar may communicate simple sentences through body language. Flavour-crunch blur.
          • Ignore penalties for doing the above, and make more complex sentences. Although flowery language is out.
          Mingled Tongue Technique
          • No flavour text.
          • May bind together two languages into a mixture that is understood by all speakers of at least one of the base languages. For more cost, she can bind together multiple languages in this way.
          • Is the number of languages limited beyond those that the Solar herself can speak? It doesn't say so, but it feels... non-charmy to not have an "up to (Essence) languages" type cap. Maybe the writers were feeling unusually generous.
          Sagacious Reading of Intent
          • Solar may read the author from the text.
          • Read intentions on a text to know if the text shows the author's Intimacies, and what they are. Does not give motives, but can reveal a lack of intimacies, indicating a forgery, a copy or an insincerely written text.
          • Like the ambiguity around what an absence of intimacies means.
          Word-Shield Invocation
          • No flavour text.
          • Use after Sagacious Reading of Intent and potentially suffering negative influence, raising her Resolve by half her Linguistics rounded up.
          Stolen Voice Technique
          • The Solar's sharp senses and skill with a pen makes her a good thief of words.
          • Can adopt the writing style of another person after having read a manuscript or 3 smaller pieces of writing in order to mimic their style. Does not include Flawless Brush Technique in its use. Synergises with it to make the difficulty of detecting the deception even higher. Automatically successful "unless the target has a reason to scrutinise the writing".
          • It was all going so well until that last sentence. I though the target of the charm was the writing, not the reader...? Confusing wording.
          Moving the Unseen Hand
          • The Solar pens a piece so well that the reader assumes the writer's identity.
          • Missive must be unsigned, and involves Manipulation + Linguistics with Essence auto-successes. TN of the target's Resolve. Make people think the letter was written by a specific person, a person they want the letter to be from, or from a hierarchical superior if the Solar has high Bureaucracy. Automatically used in conjunction with its prerequisite.
          • Is this charm's roll made anew for everyone reading it? If so, not clear. Probably also the case for Stolen Voice Technique too.
          • Aren't this and STV the wrong way round? Assuming that an unspecified person wrote a letter is surely easier than assuming a specific person wrote it. And why on earth does STV default to MTUH when it succeeds and the Solar has both, but not when they only have STV? I honestly don't see how MTUH is better in that circumstance.
          Essence-Laden Missive
          • Exalt infuses a piece of writing with Essence, so that the reader is compelled to speak it.
          • Reader unironically repeats the written piece verbatim without realising they are doing so. This is "announcement", not just repetition. Roll treated as a Charisma/Manipulation + Linguistics Inspire action, with Essence auto-successes.
          • If this is "announcement", not repetition, does the target do things like make the room quiet before reading it, say who it appears to be from and what it's referencing etc? What is "announcement" in this case?
          Voice-Caging Calligraphy
          • Solar binds her words with Essence, so that their meaning falls into nothingness.
          • Writing in a letter cannot be repeated. The reader momentarily forgets the contents or loses the ability to speak. Can only declare it if a Defining intimacy is threatened by their silence, and then must pay willpower to do it.
          That Burning Question Sidebar
          • You've given enough "lots of things are up to the ST/you should probably houserule it" flags in this book so far, game. I didn't need another.
          Single Voice Kata
          • The Solar touches the point between before and after to produce perfect language.
          • Solar speaks Babelfish. While being understood by all who hear her, no one can learn this language, and it has no discernible rules. This is for one-way communication only. Using this charm to communicate with spirits or Fair Folk is bad etiquette.
          • when speaking to mortals, this is both cheaper and more efficient than Mingled Tongue Technique. I don't remember another charm that renders its prerequisite so completely obsolete without being an explicit upgrade. Unless MTT can be learned as a language by others, while this explicitly can't. In which case why wasn't it mentioned in the MTT entry that this can be done? I assumed it was simply an Exalt being an uber-interpreter, as there was no mention of others using the created language.
          Vanishing Immersion Style
          • The Solar dwells in a place built out of words and stuff. She absorbs lots of text.
          • Solar has unbreakable Guile so long as she is reading.
          Discerning Savant’s Eye
          • Read writing that was once there but is no longer. Flavour-crunch blur.
          • Exalt cannot read writing on a surface that has been destroyed, and does not confer the ability to understand the language, but can use with FBD to make a perfect copy.
          • "Palimpsest" is one of my favourite words. That is all.
          Power-Snaring Image
          • No flavour text.
          • Copy magic while using Flawless Brush Discipline, as well as the text. Initial purchase requires that she know the magic herself, while at higher levels of Essence she can copy any magic.
          • Does the Solar have to know that there is magic in the text to copy it? No Linguistic charms so far have a magic detection ability, and so could a Solar with this ability unknowingly reproduce a written piece of magic?
          • This is a permanent charm with what seems like an activation cost. Why isn't it reflexive?
          Flashing Quill Atemi
          • The Solar strikes a document and reshapes it to her whims.
          • The Solar may edit a document so that the editing is untraceable. Can change the targets of written social influence, and change what they intend. Modifying magic-imbued work can change the target of that magic. Essence and charm use requirements to do this with unknown magic.
          Mind-Swallowing Missive
          • The Solar writes in a way that unbinds understanding, whatever that means.
          • Write a letter to a specific target that causes them to forget all languages they ever learned, and replace it with a personal language known only to them. Exalts may break this control by paying willpower, otherwise the effect lasts until the Solar frees the committed motes. This charm doesn't affect spirits.
          Cup Boils Over
          • Solar writes a text that convinces the target that their existence is pointless.
          • Write to a specific target, who does not have any intimacies but can still feel. Their soul falls off if they fail a roll.
          • What is the soul "falling off"? I imagine its fairly terminal, but it doesn't sound like death as such.
          • Is there a rule somewhere that specifies how long a charmed missive must be that I've missed? Or can this charm and others like it have an effect after a single written sentence?
          • This charm has issues that I see have been discussed elsewhere. My two-pennorth on this is that yes, as written it's a really edge-case use. My suggestion - make it kill a character with no Ties, not no Intimacies; principles can be undone easily when they don't reference anything concrete ("why should anything like truth, justice and mercy matter? Everyone's going to be be dead in a few centuries"), which is the underlying argument of this charm. Ties answer that by saying "yes, but it matters NOW because of Tie 1,2,3,4,5 etc". I might broaden it by saying no self-referential Principles, as they can dismiss the argument by saying "they matter to me, and I exist now", but then the splits not quite so neat.
          Twisted Words Technique
          • The Solar weaponises words.
          • Attack people with words. Make them act in the opposite way to what they just agreed. This can only be resisted if someone else persuades the target otherwise. Possibly creates new intimacies, this is seriously unclear.
          • This doesn't say anything about creating new intimacies, but implies that it does; ones that are somehow are concealed within others....?
          On Twisted Words Technique sidebar
          • Ah, so it DOES create intimacies. Although from this it feels like they are kind of an additional thing, not something that happens every time. The words feel really garbled.
          Excellent Emissary’s Tongue
          • Learn a language by hearing it.
          • Spend an hour hearing the language in conversation. Does not need to be involved. While it can be spoken after an hour, actions take a social penalty until a week of practice. After a season working on the language with motes committed, the Solar can use the language without committed Essence.
          • Does the Exalt need to hear the language during the season spent learning?
          Perfect Recollection Discipline
          • Solar creates a perfect memory of a work or illustration.
          • Pay the activation cost to record a particular work and read it, and then pay motes to access it. Reference it for a week and the memory remains perfect. Reference it for a month and recall can happen without mote commitment, and pay a mote to retrieve the memory. Only records the language, and ultimately the thing in which the language is displayed with fade from memory.
          • Good to clarify that this doesn't make all memory of a work dependent on magic.
          • The beginning language says "written work or illustration", but later on the charm talks about "memories of that which has been recorded through a medium of language". So are artworks included or not?
          Swift Sage’s Eye
          • Solar can read through a work in seconds.
          Mind-Scribing Method
          • The Solar can write awesome stuff anywhere.
          • Produce a work through an extended roll without the need for writing materials. The work is stored mentally, and the actual time spent writing will simply be that of copying. Combined with Whirling Brush Method and Perfect Recollection Discipline this allows such a work to be produced really quickly. The mental work can be supplemented with all linguistics charms at the time of composition, including written-only charms.
          • Why is Perfect Recollection Discipline required to copy the work out? I know it's a prerequisite, but why is its use necessary to enhance the speed of copying? Surely only Whirling Brush Method is necessary for that?
          Heaven-Drawing Discipline
          • The Solar's mind is an Essence-fueled library. Solar can produce huge works really quickly.
          • Reduce interval of an extended work of composition by one. If used with Mind-Scribing Method, this costs no willpower. Repurchases allow the time to be shrunk by multiple units.
          • When will these work composition charms be useful? I struggle to think of potential use cases for such works, unless the Solar is trying to educate a nation.
          Perfect Celestial Author
          • Can combine multiple charm effects in the same letter.
          • I wasn't aware that this couldn't be done anyway. Unless it's implied by the use of "simple-type charms" in the text of this charm, which wasn't at all clear to me on a first read-through.
          Unbreakable Fascination Method
          • The Solar is so engaging that every one must listen to them speak.
          • Roll some kind of unspecified test using Manipulation + Linguistics, which is apparently against the target's Resolve, which cannot be lowered. Those who fail are entranced by the Solar's words until she stops speaking. This is not dependent on understanding the language used. Effect is mirrored by written work, but this can only last for a time based on the Solar's Essence. Cannot be resisted with Willpower, but is disrupted by direct physical danger.
          I don't know why, but this tree feels like a slog. It might be that I've had a long week at work, but after a promising start the effects kind of become a bit meh. Or maybe I'm finally getting charm fatigue, despite surviving Brawl and Craft.

          It was the week I've been having. Spent a weekend away and tore through all the remaining charms, and finished Lore as well, and got three-quarters through building a character focused on Wyld-Shaping Technique. Will type up notes to Lore charms next.

          A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
          Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.


          • I feel like we should have recommended starting in the middle or something. A lot of people who do charm read-throughs get tired halfway through and it'd be interesting to see fresh eyes on the 2nd half.

            I post Artifacts in this thread. How I make them is in this thread.
            I have made many tools and other things for 3rd Edition. I now host all of my creations on my Google site: The Vault of the Unsung Hero


            • A weekend away has done wonders. It's not totally fresh, but it's refreshed, at least.

              A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
              Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.


              • Oof, Wyld-Shaping Technique.

                I like the idea, sure, but... Well, that charm's system probably could have been used better.

                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.


                • Looking at Moving the Unseen Hand (MtUH) and Stolen Voice Technique (STV) I can kind of see where you're going with your issue Xerxes, but I think I can explain the way it turned out.

                  First with the whole target scrutinizing the writing bit. The way I viewed it was that the writing was a product of the charm. With the deception bit target would imply the individual you intended to deceive using the writing you produced with STV. To give an example think of it like being an officer's aide in the military and they request you write a letter to their significant other-- because said spouse is worried something has happened, but the CO is too busy to write the letter themself-- to assure them everything is well and good. So you use the charm and a few prior letters they wrote to make one that will do the job. When you deal with the CO they know they didn't write the letter and you aren't trying to fool them with it, so its just them being impressed with how well you could ape their style and maybe a few minor correction that there was no way you could have known that will make it seem more legit. To the spouse who receives the letter though, the point is to make them think the letter came from the CO when it didn't.

                  As far as the order I'm thinking it makes sense for MtUH to come after STV. Because you're thinking an unspecified person, but the intent is basically using STV without the documents to make STV work, or to enable more versitlity in how it functions. For example sneaking past security at the imperial manse by making them think the Empress wrote it. With STV you have a few letters or a memoir or something she wrote you copy it out, you sign her name at the bottom and you have the letter delivered This comes against the problem that the guards know her redness is missing so where did this order come from then. With MtUH you don't need to documents first, second if the guards fail the check they come to the conclusion on who sent it on their own and the lack of a definite name might be seen as a clue or something, basically strengthens the product by having the recipients come up with the information themselves as opposed to worrying about making sure the product matches existing information. Or for another option you want the guards away from the door at an area, but you haven't been able to figure out who the person in charge is making it a nightmare to figure out who you'd need to pretend to be when writing the order. MtUH you create a mix formed with potentially no information on the people they'd be taking orders from and somehow all of them become convinced its from their boss, potentially more impressive if none of them have the same boss.
                  Last edited by nalak42; 05-30-2016, 07:17 PM.


                  • Lore

                    This took SO LONG! Sorry for the wait guys; this stuff needed chewing over.

                    Wyld-Dispelling Prana
                    • The Exalt is Order. At her will, Chaos flees.
                    • Take note of an object's state before it is tainted by the Wyld. Roll various dice on difficulties based on where it is in the Wyld (I think), and the number of successes determines the amount of time which the object is immune to the Wyld's twisting. Can affect characters, but requires multiple successes to protect an object larger than a horse.
                    • Why is this the first port of call for anyone with a Lore rating? I get that Harmonious Academic Methodology is the "know your stuff better" tree, but to start off a branch with an order vs chaos power, rather than anything to do with knowledge itself is an... interesting design choice.
                    • I'm in a charitable mood. I had to rewrite the above point multiple times and cut out metaphors involving underwater basket-weaving in order for it to not be angry. This could all have been avoided if Harmonious Academic Methodology was listed first.
                    Harmonious Academic Methodology
                    • Solar's mind is a flexible thing.
                    • Add Essence auto non-charm successes to rolls that require a speciality. Solar may add a new speciality at the end of every story. May add a topic to a character's library after successfully introducing or challenging a difficult fact.
                    • Does this apply to a roll involving the character's speciality, or any speciality at all? Given the nature of the Lore ability, the latter would be any lore roll ever, but that feels like the way the sentence structure works.
                    • Is adding "adding a topic to a character's library" and adding a specialty the same thing? Really not clear. The only time mental libraries have been referenced before now are for Awareness and Investigation charms.
                    First Knowledge’s Grace
                    • Solar can bring her knowledge to even the most unlikely to places.
                    • Ignore all penalties when teaching someone something.
                    • This would be good if there was an actual system for teaching anyone. But there isn't. Not one that I can easily find, anyway.
                    Flowing Mind Prana
                    • The Solar imparts truths as surely as the Sun passes on daylight.
                    • Can spend XP on other people, raising their Abilities or Attributes. May raise these abilties above the Solar's own ratings. For every 3 xp spent, the pupil gains one of the teacher's intimacies at a minor level. Further xp granting may raise the Intimacies from minor to major to defining, or add further new minor ones. Intimacies cannot be raised beyond the level the Solar holds them at. These intimacies can't be eroded until the character performs "at least one task equal to that intimacy's intensity". Solar decides who gets what XP. Teaching requires the training times outlined earlier be used. At the end of each story, roll dice equal to XP spent and get them back for each success rolled. Personas (whatever they are) can train. Solar cannot benefit from this charm in the same story she uses it on someone else.
                    Essence-Lending Method
                    • Solar fortifies allies with actions as well as words.
                    • At a touch, Solar can transfer motes from her pool to her target. Can also check to generate additional motes during the transfer. May transfer more than target's maximum pool, but excess must be spent by the end of the round.
                    • This doesn't feel very Lore-y. Occult more than anything, or a very specific application of Lore, rather than a general thing. Wouldn't a requirement of a Lore (Essence) speciality make more sense than just requiring a Lore rating?
                    Will-Bolstering Method
                    • Solar uplifts people's spirits, giving them inner strength.
                    • May transfer Essence-based amounts of temporary willpower. Also generates bonus Willpower that is also transferred. Can transfer more than target's maximum willpower.
                    • Does this require a touch, line of sight, what? It feels weird that Essence-Lending Method introduces the touch requirement and then it gets dropped for this.
                    Hidden Wisdom Bestowal
                    • Really weird flavour text. Wouldn't "the Solar can pass on her teaching even in the most dangerous of circumstances" (or similar and less wordy) be better?
                    • Supplements Flowing Mind Prana, disguising lessons in a form that they're not. Only the recipients of the training can understand the true meaning, while others only perceive the false surface teaching.
                    • Shouldn't this have Subtle Speech Method as a prerequisite?
                    Tireless Learner Method
                    • The student suddenly becomes a master.
                    • May reroll non-successes to regain XP used to teach others, and allows the Solar to gain more XP back than she initially spent.
                    Bottomless Wellspring Approach
                    • Solars are the font of all knowledge.
                    • Can roll to establish a fact when her knowledge is challenged. Get one auto-success when character's Lore speciality is reflected, and rolled successes are doubled.
                    • So... this enables a Lore counterattack? Why couldn't you introduce a fact in these circumstances anyway? Or is it just that it enables bonus successes in such a situation?
                    • Is there an actual difference between the character's "Lore expertise" and "Lore specialities"? Is the first one chosen at character creation special and shiny in some way that specialities aren't, in a way that hasn't been made clear before? Like, is a Lore Expertise "Lore (Dynastic education), or "Lore (Lookshy Academy Training)" while Lore Specialities are "Lore (philosophy)" or "Lore (agriculture)". Or is this just a meaningless distinction created through imprecise wording in this charm?
                    Lore-Inducing Concentration
                    • The Solar pulls legends from within herself.
                    • One autosuccess when introducing or challenging a fact, and rerolling 6s until 6s are no more. Immanent Solar Glory adds some complementary benefit that makes no sense to me.
                    • Why have the ISG bonus? If it succeeds without a roll then surely degrees of success don't actually matter? Unless ISG has another benefit that feeds off the number of successes generated?
                    Truth-Rendering Gaze
                    • Solar can gain additional insight by focusing on stuff and not getting distracted.
                    • Can do a Lore-based Read Intentions roll based on a difficulty with no guidelines apart from factors which should make this arbitrary difficulty slightly less difficult, but no less arbitrary. Can be used to determine the function of an object, give people bonus dice on survival or war rolls in an area she has studied, and other frilly things that add fun descriptions but don't seem to do anything concrete.
                    • The additional tidbits of information could be useful in helping an investigator who doesn't have Investigation charms, I guess.
                    Wound-Accepting Technique
                    • The Solar can channel life force into another.
                    • On touching the target, can heal health levels based on Essence, and take the damage herself. It is possible for the Solar to kill herself this way.
                    • I really don't get what this charm has to do with Lore. I would have expected to see this in Medicine, or at least have a Bridge Medicine prerequisite. Yet more evidence that Bridge is just a thing to bolster Integrity, rather than a well-thought-out general charm mechanic.
                    Essence Font Technique
                    • The Solar is a conduit for PHENOMEENAL COSMIC POWARRS.
                    • Essence-Lending Method and Will-Bolstering Method become Reflexive and can be combined. Ignore various parts of the costs of each. Rolls get cascade recurring 10s.
                    • Why is "cascade recurring 10s" referred to in this way now, and nowhere else? It's a lovely clear way of putting it, but I would have expected it to be described that way pages and pages ago, and then "cascade recurring Xs" to simply be a system term used throughout without futher fanfare.
                    Legendary Scholar’s Curriculum
                    • No flavour text.
                    • Upgrades Flowing Mind Prana to allow multiple characters to be trained using the same XPs. May offer the committed cost to an Essence-based number of characters, and half the amount to more. Can confer intimacies that she doesn't hold herself with this charm.
                    • You know, a Lore charm to speed up training times would be awesome and thematic, particularly at this point.
                    • Does this charm break the "can only confer intimacies to the level held by the Solar" rule of Flowing Mind Prana? If she can pass on intimacies she doesn't hold I would assume so, but it's not stated anywhere.
                    Selfsame Master Instructor
                    • Can teach charms and spells she knows as well as abilities, so long as the student qualifies for them. But not Sidereal Martial Arts.
                    Sacred Relic Understanding
                    • Seeing a relic of the past, the Solar understands how to use it.
                    • Touch an artefact with an unknown purpose to use Auspex 3 get a vision of how to activate it. N/A artefacts have higher difficulty levels, and the Solar can only learn facts that help understand it, not know how to activate it. Can only be used on N/A artefacts once per story.
                    • If the ST is generous enough to give multiple N/A artefacts in a story, can this charm be used once on each artefact, or once period?
                    Wake the Sleeper
                    • Unlock an artefact's true potential by merging its Essence with the Solar's own.
                    • Roll Lore stuff to unlock an artefact's evocations (which still haven't been defined or explained in any way) without spending XP. More successes unlock more evocations. May be used once per story, and not on the same artefact twice until an equal amount of XP has been spent on it in the usual way. May not use this charm to aid another character in unlocking stuff until Essence 5. Waive this if Lore is supernal.
                    • Oh cool, are we going to "if supernal, then X" mechanics? Why wasn't this applied more broadly?
                    Heaven-Turning Calculations
                    • No flavour text.
                    • Lore background must be mathematical. Add Essence-based bonus dice to rolls for Craft, spells, speculative Bureaucracy, maths-based Lore and Wyld-Shaping Technique.
                    Injury-Forcing Technique
                    • Also, kill people with your brain. Cannot be done from 200 yards away with mind-bullets. Do Essence-based damage on touch, which heals the Solar. When done in combat it's a difficulty 5 gambit based on chosen hand-to-hand ability.
                    • If it's touch-based, shouldn't it always be Brawl-based? Is touching with a twelve-foot long grand diaklaive somehow "touching" enough for this?
                    • WHY IN THE WORLD IS THIS IN THE LORE TREE!? Like the prereq, it's better suited to Medicine.
                    Essence-Draining Touch
                    • We finish the touchy-feely, really-should-have-been-in-Medicine-or-at-least-require-relevant-specialities Lore charms with one that suck away Essence with an opposed Willpower roll. This is a gambit in combat, with the same totally nonsensical freedom of ability selection to make it work.
                    • I can see a bit more why this is in Lore, if Lore has a subtheme of manipulating Essence because knowledge, but this should then be the foundation of doing other things, like providing motes which can THEN be used to manipulate health levels, a la qi manipulation, not the other way round. But I still stand by the "should have Medicine bridge prerequisites" for the others.
                    Essence-Twining Method
                    • Oh, we're not finished.
                    • Touch a willing target to shuffle motes between Personal and Peripheral pools, with a free Excellency and non-charm successes to determine how many are changed. Cannot be used on herself until Essence 5, which is waived for Lore Supernals.
                    • Yay, more "if supernal" effects. Like! Looking at it, its function is to waive Essence requirements, which is very in theme for supernal abilities. It a neat feature.
                    Force-Draining Whisper
                    • Know the world's secrets and blackmail it into keeping you alive. Flavour-crunch blur.
                    • When Solar is hit with a decisive attack, look into the Matrix underbelly of the universe and roll Wits/Lore to deny levels of damage and convert them into initiative. May be used once per scene, resets if the Solar or allies reach their last undamaged health level. At Essence 4+, can be used when an ally is struck, up to long range away from the Solar.
                    • If it requires the Solar to "utter a cipher", is it dependent on them being able to speak?
                    • Who does the stolen initiative go to for the protect other version? The Solar or the protected person? Common sense kinda says the latter, but rules don't say it goes anywhere different from the solo version.
                    Immanent Solar Glory
                    • Solar draws strength from her Essence.
                    • Whenever a 10 is rolled for a Lore-based roll or charm, get a mote of Essence.
                    • Lore-Inducing Concentration makes sense now.
                    • Do Lore charms somehow require non-Lore-based rolls, which requires the "or Lore charms" distinction in the text? I didn't think so...
                    Flowing Essence Conversion
                    • Solar internalises her anima and pushes it outward.
                    • When anima is at iconic level, it can be reset to dim to reset the limitation on Essence-Lending Method. The motes spent by the charm cannot themselves push the Solar's anima to iconic level.
                    Power-Restoring Invocation
                    • By the light of her anima, the Solar can see the flow of combat clearly. Her anima races to her allies, suffusing them with new power.
                    • Roll Perception + Lore, convert successes into motes sent to allies, at unlimited range within the same scene. Returns Solar's anima to dim. At Essence 5+, charm is not Perilous.
                    Surging Essence Flow
                    • Guide Essence (or spirits, who knows? This is weird flavour text) better because you know about essence.
                    • Essence-Lending Method and Will-Bolstering Method can be used at short range, removing the touch requirement. Reduces the cost of Flowing Essence Conversion.
                    Order-Affirming Blow
                    • Solars can undo the ravages of the Wyld and damages to the Loom of Fate.
                    • Strip away the effects of the Wyld and magic, returning stuff to their normal state. If the target doesn't want to be touched, underhand methods may be used. Gambit to do in combat. Fair Folk are changed according to a seemingly arbitrary set of conditions.
                    • The "if the target doesn't want to be touched" is the first we hear about the charm being touch-based. Confusing!
                    • The Fair Folk being changed by the strength of their intimacy to the Solar doesn't say which way the intimacy works. Does a stronger intimacy make the change more or less severe? I'd guess less, but the "it's up to the storyteller" line for no intimacies at all basically sums the whole thing up for me.
                    Wyld-Shaping Technique
                    • Solars can reshape the raw Wyld into stuff.
                    • Spend a minute concentrating to complete a phase of Wyld-shaping, based on an Int + Lore roll. Some things may take a single phase, but complex things take multiple workings. Each phase counts as a separate charm activation, with a cost each time. Each phase increases the TN of the roll by 1, from a base 5. During this time the Solar is focused on the crafting and cannot engage in extended actions. If the Solar is incapacitated during this time, it all fails and she loses everything pumped into it. Character must be in or near the deep Wyld for this to work. While the laws of physics apply around the Solar while Wyld-shaping, she can be affected by mutating stuff and cannot use Chaos-Repelling Pattern. Each phase brings the risk of Wyld denizens descending on the Solar. Non-specific land is easier to make than specific, and extra successes can make more land. Charm will generate inhabitants relevant to the nearest pole. Demesnes can be created either by design or accident - the higher the phase of shaping, the more likely they are to occur naturally. Demesnes are necessary for veins of the five magical materials to appear. Legendary demesnes do weird & wonderful things to the overall demesne count. Additional wealth can be created, but needs materials to work from, functioning as a multiplier rather than a creator of things like silver & jade, and how much can be multiplied is increased in every phase. Can create veins of the five magical materials based on the demesne count. Artefacts & manses need further charms. Everything else is conceptual gradations; more complex stuff needs more phases.
                    • Hooray, a System: section!
                    • Awesome picture.
                    • What are the five magical materials? Are they the special crafting ingredients needed? I though there were more than five of those.
                    • What is "catabolising"?
                    • How long can be taken between phases? Each use is 15 motes, which is a very non-trivial amount. Can land be part-shaped (to say, phase 2 or 3), have the Solar take a break of days or weeks, and then come back to finish it? Or does the Wyld eat unfinished stuff, meaning that you have to do it all in one go?
                    • So... this charm can totally obviate the need to craft mundane projects at all in the Wyld? While that's kinda neat, it feels like an exploit.
                    • This feels like an awesome charm. I can see it being the core to a Moses-like Exalt under the thrall of the Fair Folk.
                    Hero-Induction Method
                    • The Solar teaches the land to do stuff.
                    • Whenever Wyld-Shaping Technique is used to build "a place of trade, practice or service", it also creates a skilled person to work it.
                    • It feels a little weird for Solars to be creating people, but it's a cool enough power.
                    • Also, are "forest people" a type of skilled trade? It might be an attempt make the term "woodsmen" gender-neutral, but I was left wondering exactly what Dryads were skilled at.
                    Wyld Cauldron Mastery
                    • Get automatic successes to each phase of Wyld-Shaping Technique.
                    Wyld-Called Weapon
                    • ...weirdly worded flavour text, talking about how artefact weapons take more refinement than Wyld-Shaping Technique.
                    • Weapons can be drawn from phase 4 onwards, although more powerful weapons require longer. All created weapons have one active Evocation. We're then told each phase is a "narrative vector", or an opportunity to describe things a lot.
                    • The "narrative vector" stuff feels condescending. Of course we know each phase should be narrated by the player, that goes without saying. And why wasn't this note added to the general Wyld-Shaping Technique? Do we only need to describe the world-shaping power of the charm if it was used to make a weapon?
                    • Is the cost of this charm added on top of the next phase of Wyld-Shaping Technique, or does it substitute for it? Wyld-Shaping is Simple, while this is Reflexive. I'm not sure those two types of charm can mix, can they?
                    Wyld-Forging Focus
                    • Start each Wyld-Shaping attempt at phase 2.
                    Fate of the Middlemarches Sidebar
                    • Sometimes the order imposed by the Solar on the borders and Middlemarches stabilises over time, sometimes it immediately imposes order, other times the Wyld stays strong. This is based on the Solar's intentions with the use of the charm, and the phase at which she stopped.
                    • I still don't know what the Midddlemarches and so on are. I can guess it's a description for the border between the Wyld and Creation, but that's not defined anywhere. It also gives no indication of how it interacts with the increasing elementalness of these areas, as I assume they're all very close to their respective poles?
                    Tome-Rearing Gesture
                    • Materialise a book the Solar has created using Mind-Scribing Method.
                    • No roll required for bog-standard books, rolls needed for shiny books with colour illustrations, spiffy lettering and other such finnicky stuff. Does not require Wyld-shaping Technique, but Solar must be at least on the Border Marches.
                    • I still don't know what these are. I cannot emphasise enough how much the absence of a description and definition of these places is annoying me.
                    Power-Awarding Prana
                    • The Solar can uplift others, and channel power through them.
                    • Allow another Solar to use a charm she qualifies for but does not have, up to 1 Essence higher than her current rating. The caster doesn't need to know it either. Commit motes and xp needed to learn the charm, while the user pays activation costs from their own pool. Caster may end it at any point, but the charm cannot be be forcefully dispelled. At Essence 5, the Solar may use it on herself. If Supernal, waive this requirement. The +1 Essence bump stops at Essence 5. Cannot be used to teach Sorcery.
                    • Can this charm give non-Essence users Essence 1 charms? I know the text refers to Solars alone, but I'm kind of curious.
                    • Are "committed" xp regained when the charm ends?
                    Prophet of Seventeen Cycles
                    • Knowledge of the past and nature make the Solar able to make flawless general pronouncements.
                    • Spend a day studying a subject from an authoritative source, and then make a prediction against something, giving bonuses for those who act in accordance with the prediction and penalties for those that act against it.
                    • Gah, double-negatives! So you make a prediction that something will not happen, and if someone tries to make it happen they get penalties, while someone acting to keep it from happening get bonuses?
                    • The example is confusing. So Mnemon gets bonuses for doing a positive action that reinforces the Solar's negative prediction? Actually, I suppose that makes sense. I don't get why it is a purely negative prediction, though.
                    • Some concrete examples of what kinds of penalties would have been helpful. But then again as this possibly relates mostly to projects, and projects are a fuzzy mess, I shouldn't be surprised that there aren't any solid guidelines here.
                    Will-Shattering Illusion
                    • Solar draws on a riddle from long ago in her Exaltation's history and channels it to create a riddle or illusion to aid her.
                    • Wits + Lore, with Essence-based bonuses to set the difficulty for the riddle. Failure to answer it by someone else temporarily shatters their mind, draining willpower and initiative. May only be used once a scene.
                    • Woo, combatitive talking during combat! I like it. Although does this require the target to stand and pay attention to the riddle?
                    Surging Inner Fire
                    • Being under stress makes the Solar draw more power.
                    • Restores Essence at a rate based on the Solar's temporary Willpower. Adds bonus Essence at the start of combat rounds, until the Solar is struck by a successful withering attack. Reset by earning back 3 willpower points through various means.
                    Seal of Infinite Wisdom
                    • Unbind a lost vision of glory to even greater heights.
                    • Get 8s, 9s and 10s for Immanent Solar Glory. Anima level increase by one on use of this charm. Use once per scene, reset by a two-point stunt. At Essence 5+, charm becomes reflexive and can be used with Wyld-Shaping Technique.
                    Sevenfold Savant Mantle
                    • I AM THE LORE! Which makes the Wyld behave.
                    • Once per use of Wyld-Shaping Technique, may ignore the willpower cost and apply a free full Lore excellency to the phase.
                    • I get that this is meant to be used on a per phase basis, but "once per attempted WST" first made me think once per Wyld-Shaping project...
                    Power Beyond Reason
                    • No real flavour text.
                    • Solar gets double 8s on a WST roll. May be used on one phase per attempt. May repurchase to allow double 7s somewhere.
                    • The clarification between phases and attempts to use the charm etc is what Sevenfold Savant Mantle needs.
                    • Is the double 7s applied as well as the double 8s with the repurchased version? If not (implied by the use of "instead"), what's the point in specifying a different number? It just complicates matters.
                    Manse-Raising Method
                    • No flavour text.
                    • May raise a Manse from the Wyld. Requires phase 4 of Wyld-Shaping Technique, in a land with 3 major demesnes. The use of this charm consumes the 3 demesnes.
                    • This is weird... does a manse require 3 demesnes to work in Creation? No? Then why does it need it in the Wyld?
                    On Unstoppable Magnus Approach Sidebar
                    • Where is this charm? Oh of course, on the next page.
                    • Hang on, so if an ST thinks a player is hoarding initiative, they can be called on it? That makes no sense to me. If a character cannot build up 10 or more initiative in a turn or two, then they have to save up to use the charm. But if they do it in order to use the charm, they've broken the rules. So why bother with the charm at all for such characters? This feels like the game is intentionally bitchslapping you for playing it.
                    Demiurgic Suspiration
                    • The Solar draws power from her nascent world to create more stuffs.
                    • After each successful WST phase, roll to regain Essence. This stacks with Immanent Solar Glory.
                    God-King’s Shrike (Dogstar Ruminations)
                    • Solars are returned god-kings, who do terrible things in order to save the world. They study hard and connect to their previous lives to understand a disaster and have that disaster recognised by the universe.
                    • Spend a week studying a region's history, geography etc. Roll to predict a natural disaster of increasing severity based on the number of successes. Player chooses region, Storyteller decides on the nature of the disaster. Solar may cancel the apocalypse if she so wishes, and show mercy. Motes spent to activate it are committed for a week. May be used once per year, may be refreshed once per season by paying XP.
                    • Why the two different names?
                    • I don't get why the commitment for a week and then stuff happens. Can the Solar only predict the disaster a week in advance? How about being a bit more flexible, game?
                    Incalculable Flowing Mind
                    • Solar channels a wellspring of restorative knowledge.
                    • Once per story, the Solar regains 3 points of temporary willpower, which can increase it past her permanent rating.
                    Unstoppable Magnus Approach
                    • Solar manipulates Essence to convert the flow of battle into healing.
                    • Pay initiative, regain temporary willpower.
                    Savant of Nine Glories
                    • The Solar is transformed by her knowledge.
                    • Cost of Wyld-Shaping Technique is permanently lowered by 5 motes.
                    This is an interesting tree. It's mostly not about Lore, though. It's about Essence. Which feels really weird for a Lore tree. I can see most of this tree having zero relevance to many Lore concepts unless, like Craft, everyone is actually assumed to be about one thing, despite the wishes of the character. Which sucks, very hard. It's a good concept, but it's a single concept, that doesn't suit something as diverse as Lore. Maybe that's a problem with writing single charm trees for abilities which have specialisations, but I still feel this could have been written to be much more relevant.

                    There are so many xp-burning charms in the Lore tree I'm kind of worried that a Lore specialist will be a mewling and puking babe in comparison to her circlemates, having spent it all on Wyld-shaping and teaching.

                    The "ignore if supernal" effects are a brilliant idea, but I have an inkling that as I'm so far through now the effects won't be replicated elsewhere.

                    The Martial Arts stuff is just a heads-up paragraph that Solars don't get their own stuff, but just general Exalted Martial Arts. For a book that had a strict wordcount, it really spills a lot of words on signposting.

                    Next up, Medicine.
                    Last edited by Xerxes; 06-02-2016, 04:43 PM.

                    A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                    Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.


                    • To my understanding, a Lore "expertise" functions like a Craft "whatever-it's-called." You have Craft (weaponsmithing), Craft (Carpentry), Craft, (Architecture), etc. Likewise, you have Lore (History), Lore (Literature), Lore (Mathematics), etc. These differ from specialties in that they don't give you bonus dice but instead make rolls possible at all. If I'm understanding it correctly, that is...

                      DrLoveMonkey - "On the other hand having a warhammer that's basically a steel beer keg on the end of a seven foot pole is fucking awesome."


                      • Originally posted by Octopoid View Post
                        To my understanding, a Lore "expertise" functions like a Craft "whatever-it's-called." You have Craft (weaponsmithing), Craft (Carpentry), Craft, (Architecture), etc. Likewise, you have Lore (History), Lore (Literature), Lore (Mathematics), etc. These differ from specialties in that they don't give you bonus dice but instead make rolls possible at all. If I'm understanding it correctly, that is...
                        Yes. Which is why its weird. Why would a historian or mathematician be mucking around with Essence and Wyld shaping?

                        A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                        Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.


                        • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                          Yes. Which is why its weird. Why would a historian or mathematician be mucking around with Essence and Wyld shaping?
                          I agree that it's weird, and out of context with things like Larceny or Melee that have just as broad an application but no such restrictions. Still, I think that's, definitionally, the answer to,"Is there an actual difference between the character's "Lore expertise" and "Lore specialities"?

                          DrLoveMonkey - "On the other hand having a warhammer that's basically a steel beer keg on the end of a seven foot pole is fucking awesome."


                          • Ah sorry, misunderstood the point you were getting at. That does make sense. Although having an expertise and a speciality in the same area (technically possible, and probably advisable for optimal builds) feels weird to me.

                            A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                            Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.


                            • Lore is unlike Craft in that unlike Craft, which is actually multiple Abilities, Lore is just one ability that you're supposed to define initially based on whatever background makes sense for your character and then, later, if you want to broaden it, you buy specialties.

                              To save you some suspense, Bordermarches and Middlemarches are indeed not defined anywhere else in the book.


                              • Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
                                Lore is unlike Craft in that unlike Craft, which is actually multiple Abilities, Lore is just one ability that you're supposed to define initially based on whatever background makes sense for your character and then, later, if you want to broaden it, you buy specialties.
                                So, a Lore expertise is, in fact, different from a Lore specialty, but unlike Craft, they're not separate Abilities. Does an expertise give a bonus die to relevant rolls? Is it, essentially, a free specialty for anyone who has a dot of Lore?

                                DrLoveMonkey - "On the other hand having a warhammer that's basically a steel beer keg on the end of a seven foot pole is fucking awesome."