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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Actually, y'know who those "You can get Evocations for GSS" are best suited for?

    Everybody who says "I don't want to invest in Evocations because I don't want to sink experience into a sword that can be stolen, because that would waste my spent experience"! Because the enemy can't steal a sword that you call from your Essence


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • Occult

      Spirit-Detecting Glance
      • See things in the spirit realm.
      • See, but not touch, immaterial spirits.
      • This feels like it could also be a Merit for mortals.
      Uncanny Perception Technique
      • Solar's senses are tuned to the movements of weird things.
      • Sense when a spirit or Fair Folk is nearby, by the presence of a weird sensory phenomenon (ringing bells, a peculiar odour etc). Awareness checks for this sort of thing get a bonus of half the Exalt's Occult rating, rounded up.
      • I assume that the weird phenomena are the cue for the ST to hint that the player should make a roll?
      Keen Unnatural Eye
      • Opening your eyes to the occult gives evidence a new meaning, and the Solar can see the work of spirits more clearly.
      • Get bonus dice to track spirits or find evidence of their actions.
      • Would this be better-served by having a Survival or Investigation prereq? Buying 3 charms into a tree just to fill out a super-perceptive investigator's portfolio seems a mite much.
      Spirit-Cutting Attack
      • Solar's weapon is infused with anima, allowing her to strike an immaterial spirit.
      • Can strike immaterial beings. If not being used with the prereq, take a penalty to hit. Can be used in combination with charms from other abilities.
      Spirit-Draining Stance
      • The Solar can draw entropy from ghosts, speeding her attacks against them.
      • Withering attacks against spirits drain additional successes. At higher Essence and Occult levels, can drain motes instead of initiative.
      Ghost-Eating Technique
      • Solars can slay spirits.
      • Can be used with charms from other abilities. Supplemented attacks do agg damage to spirits. Regain motes equal to the highest level wound penalty inflicted on a spirit. Destroying a spirit with this utterly kills them, and the Solar absorbs more motes.
      • The Solars apparently slew the enemies of the gods with an Essence 1 charm! Really?
      Phantom-Seizing Strike
      • Solar can infuse a target with Essence.
      • Force spirits to materialise for a turn after hitting them with Spirit-Cutting Attack.
      • I assume the use of SCA is the only time this charm can be used? It's implied, but not stated.
      Spirit-Slaying Stance
      • Lawgiver hunts down those sneaky ghosts who crawl in through reality's cracks.
      • Wait, I though that was the Liminals' job?
      • Gain Essence-based successes on attacks vs spirits.
      Uncanny Shroud Defense
      • The Exalt can step between worlds when she's nearly dead.
      • Charm can be used to stop her last health level from being taken. Cannot be used if they are on their last uninjured health level.
      • I had to re-read this twice to realise that "the last uninjured health level" didn't mean the level before incapacitated.
      Spirit-Manifesting Word
      • Speak a word to pull a demon or spirit into the world.
      • Solar may make a spirit manifest without paying a cost or using its own magic.
      Ancient Tongue Understanding
      • Solar expands her understanding to everywhere.
      • Solar speaks and understands Old Realm without the merit, and cannot comprehend other languages. Solar understands 'spirit lanugages that are as old and strange as Old Realm'. While this charm is in effect, gain Essence-based auto-successes on all Occult rolls and shaping actions.
      Supernal Control Method
      • Exalt brings her Essence out of the world and back in, letting her breathe of the realms beyond.
      • Free full Occult excellency. Reset by raising anima to iconic and shedding it to dim.
      All-Encompassing Sorcerer’s Sight
      • Exalt looks into the world and sees the patterns of Essence across Creation.
      • For a few seconds after activating the charm, the Solar sees spirits and the workings of Essence around her. May make an Int + Occult roll with a TN of the effects Essence minimum to determine how it works. Can identify the presence and function of persistent sorcerous effects. Also shows where Creation is thin, and see entrances to the spirit world. This charm doesn't show up Exalted charms.
      • Why doesn't it show up Exalted charms? They're Essence workings, and this is the Essence-vision charm. Oh riiight, unless the real reason is game balance, and they use the "personal essence/reality essence" divide as a flimsy justification.
      • On the back of that, do non-Exalted non-sorcerer Essence users use their own Essence, or reality's? If their own, then gods' charms (and spirits' charms, maybe?) should also be invisible, which isn't flagged. Which makes me think this is a Byzantine "because balance/reasons" decision. Blech. House rule ahoy!
      Carnal Spirit Rending
      • Solar draws the Essence of a destroyed spirit into herself.
      • Gain an Essence-based number of powers or traits based on the themes embodied by the destroyed spirit. This includes non-Eclipse-tagged charms. The limit of the Essence rating of the powers gained is Solar's Essence + 2.
      Burning Exorcism Technique
      • Solar can draw out the malign influences of spirits from a person.
      • Roll to draw out spirit or spiritual malaise. If Essence rating is equal or lower to the Solar, it becomes part of her anima, where it is imprisoned until the Solar releases it.Solar cannot capture more spirits than she has points of permanent Essence. If the spirit's Essence rating is greater than the Solar's, then it is released into the world and cannot re-enter the same host for a season.
      • I would have loved some examples of "spiritual malaise" in the diseases section, but we only had one example.
      • "permanent Essence" - is that the Essence rating, or the sum of personal and peripheral mote pools?
      • So this means we need to keep a tally of every spirit ever captured by an Exalt? I do so love book-keeping. Sigh...
      Breath-Drinker Method
      • Solar understands corporeal Essence, which allows her to rend spirits on contact.
      • Supplements a decisive attack, allowing the Solar to steal motes of Essence equal to either an Essence-based total per attack or the number of health level damage dealt, whichever is smaller.
      Spirit-Repelling Diagram
      • Exalt draws a pattern from the depths of the universe around her.
      • Blazing pattern extends up to short range. Lower-Essence Spirits within the circle must materialise or leave. Higher-Essence spirits must apply Resolve, vs Exalt's Wits+Occult, with the Exalt getting Essence-based bonus dice against normal spirits and Essence-based successes against "demons and other cursed spirits". Circle stays fixed in place for a scene, and disappears if the Exalt leaves it. Lower-Essence spirits cannot attack characters in the circle from outside it, and any spirits who leave the diagram cannot attack those within it.
      • What is a cursed spirit?
      • I can see the distinction between spirits who can or cannot attack based on a combination of their Essence, position and whether or not they fled the diagram causing problems.
      Nine Specters Ban
      • The Solar's Essence marks her as the greatest authority in Heaven.
      • Any attack made on the Solar by an immaterial being costs willpower.
      • Aren't the gods the greatest authority in Heaven?
      • Does the Essence itself mark the Solar, or Essence as expressed by her anima? It feels a bit weird to have the "personal stamp" effect on anything that's not anima. But I could just be being picky.
      • Are materialised spirits immaterial? This is probably stupidly clear, but I can't remember if this has been clarified.
      Spirit-Caging Mandala
      • Creates a diagram that holds a spirit in place.
      • Essence diagram forms on a target up to 2 range bands from the Solar. Wits + Occult roll vs difficulty of spirit's Essence. Success binds the spirit for turns based on the number of successes, after which the spirit may try to escape again, and the difficulty to contain them increases by 1 each time. this happens. The Solar must remain with 2 range bands of the cage to keep it up. Trapped spirits can be seen and struck by characters who do not normally perceive and/or attack immaterial spirits. Caged spirits can attack characters outside of the cage by using ranged attacks, and they must be attacked first. Characters who enter the mandala can be attacked.
      • The wording of this specifies a target spirit, but the idea of the cage implies an area effect without actually specifying an area of effect. If so, how big is it, and can multiple spirits in the same location be trapped by the charm?
      Material Exegesis Prana
      • Solar can tear the veil of reality and give immaterial allies form.
      • Wits + Occult roll to materialise a number of allies equal to successes. Roll 3 6s and all allies materialise, and Exalt regains 2 points of willpower.
      • Are these summoned allies already bought with merits, or does the charm randomly grab things from the ether who were otherwise just minding their own business?
      • Oh dear, 666.... it got a snicker, but it strikes me as a bit much otherwise.
      Dark-Minder’s Observances
      • The Exalted walks roads and hears the hidden Essence of the world and understand things not said.
      • Exalt may learn an Essenced-based number of thaumaturgy rituals without paying XP.
      • Does this go up as the Solar's Essence increases?
      • Does the Solar need a teacher? The flavour implies not, but it's not clear.
      Burning Eye of the Deliverer
      • Solar's eyes burn through deceptions.
      • Enhances All-Encompassing Sorcerer’s Sight, to enhance attempts to see through magical disguises. This charm allows them to notice such effects with Awareness, and adds Essence-based successes to the attempt.
      • Hang on, it enhances a charm, but then says it allows for things to be noticed purely off Awareness? AESS doesn't appear to have a "Solar Senses Tingling" effect like some charms, so this feels really situational for when the Solar is specifically looking for something.
      • Also, this would be perfect for an Investigation bridge charm.
      Soul Projection Method
      • Solar casts her spirit from her body to save someone from corruption.
      • Touches the target and rolls Wits+Occult vs Resolve, with Intimacies having an effect. On success, Exalt and target become entranced, and the Solar casts her spirit into the target's body. While the body, the Exalt can put a spirit into the target's body, retrieve a soul from it, battle derangements and various other funky things.
      • Can a Solar actually exorcise a spirit using this charm? The flavour text implies it, but the system text doesn't talk about it.
      Wyld-Binding Prana
      • Flavour-crunch mix.
      • Spirit-Caging Mandala is infused with iron, allowing it to trap certain Wyld denizens, forcing them to manifest into a substantial form.
      Spirit-Draining Mudra
      • Solar may draw Essence from a spirit trapped in her cage.
      • Cost of all Occult charms is reduced by the Essence rating of the trapped entity. Motes are taken from the spirit to cast the charm, and may also be used to fuel sorcery.
      • As the motes are taken from the spirit, I take it that they can eventually run out? You'd have to be using a lot of Occult charms to do it, particularly in a combat situation, but does the reduction in cost continue after the spirit is out of Essence?
      Demon-Compelling Noose
      • The binding pattern saps the target's resolve.
      • Get automatic successes when doing social interaction with those held by Spirit-Caging Mandala, who also has resolve penalties. These are more severe for Creatures of Darkness.
      All Souls Benediction
      • Lawgiver speaks authoritatively, and Creation shakes and brings forth spirits.
      • Spirits within six range bands must test or materialise,
      Gloaming Eye Understanding
      • Solar channels her Essence into... something that has a double meaning and I don't understand at this point.
      • Solar may be taught Eclipse keyword spirit charms "at the centre of day and night". This doesn't cost XP, but motes must remain committed to this charm. Knowledge of the charm fades when these motes are released. Exalt must meet trait prerequisites for a charm, but does not need to know charm prerequisites.
      • What is "the centre of day and night"? The kind of place where you ring up and book an appointment with someone to discuss your spirit charm needs? I have no idea.
      • Does the Solar need a teacher? It feels like an implied yes, but doesn't say so explicitly.
      Sorcerer’s Burning Chakra
      • Solar sees all things properly.
      • While at iconic anima, automatically gets All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight benefits for free. Using AESS and Spirit-Detecting Glance allows the Solar to roll to see if she can detect the Essence and nature of a spirit.
      • What is there to detect in the way of spirit's natures? This may be made clearer in Chapter 9, but to me a spirit's nature is that it's a spirit.
      Immortal Soul Vigil
      • No distinct flavour text.
      • Can go into a(n implied) trance and examine someone's memories and dreams, and observe or examine them as if she were inside the experience, but cannot affect the outcome of memories. If a spirit is found, may spend further motes to fight the spirit directly to counter its influence.
      • This is quite convoluted, but kind of neat.
      Spirit-Shredding Exorcism
      • After caging a being with Spirit-Caging Mandala, the Solar breaks the pattern which then rends the spirit apart.
      • Make an opposed Int+Occ roll vs resolve, which cannot be enhanced with intimacies on either side, or resisted with Willpower. If the Solar wins, the target's Essence is reduced by 1 while they're in the cage. If the difficulty of maintaining Spirit-Caging Mandala has increased, it's reset to base.This charm cannot be used more than once on a single target. If a being's Essence is reduced to 0 in this way, it cannot act until it leaves the mandala.
      • The flavour text and name implies this is a way of killing a spirit, but you can't do that. I find this weird, and may houserule it as a possibility.
      Spirit-Drawing Oculus
      • Solar becomes an Essence conduit and sees all the gaps in the universe where Dust Essence has escaped from, and hoovers it up.
      • Shed anima and gain a free full Occult Excellency on a Perception + Occult roll to regain as many motes as the roll has successes. These can only be used on Craft, Investigation, Medicine, Lore, and Occult charms, or as part of a shaping sorcery action. Can only be used once per day.
      • Now THIS is the kind of thing I was expecting from the whole tree, not just one power.
      • Not ANOTHER set of "can only be used in X way" motes to track...
      Ephemeral Induction Technique
      • Solar rips new life from the fabric of Creation.
      • Can create a spirit out of nothing, but can also harness the patterns of those she has trapped in its creation. Spirit has stats based on the Solar's. The spirit is treated as a familiar. Spirit is in thrall to the Solar, and this charm can only be used again once the current spirit is released.
      General thoughts:
      • As astrology is a thing in Exalted, would it fall under Occult? Either that or Lore. Although I doubt that Solars are the kind of people to muck about with astrology much - that may be an intentional gap left for Sidereals.
      • Alongside Lore and some Integrity charms (and presumably Ride and Sail), Occult feels like it's a tree which is very specialised, in that it forces the ST to include particular content, in this case lots of spirits. I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but it certainly forces the ST to have a big role in character creation, and the players to have a role in shaping the chronicle as a whole. Which I'm not sure is explicitly flagged anywhere or not, but really, really should be pointed out somewhere.
      • This tree really isn't for the bookish occultists... but then this is Exalted.
      • The problem with having Essence in everything is that Essence is in everything. I would personally have put Essence manipulation as an Occult-type ability, if it weren't the core of charms in general. This leaves Occult's Essence effects feeling quite out of place at times, as they feel like they could belong anywhere. There is particularly annoying levels of overlap with Lore in this respect.
      • I know why I feel that way! I was expecting some Occult charms to enhance sorcery in the same way that Craft charms enhance crafting, but there are very few of those (I count two in a skim-through). Which really surprises me.
      • I've realised I've been misusing the term target number, because it's so rarely not 7 that I was equating it with the number of successes required for an action. Apologies for any confusion caused up to now, will try and be clearer from here on out.
      • I don't think there are actually any standard materialisation rules. Done a quick Ctrl+F, and the only references to the term outside of charms is in the Zenith caste ability and for certain antagonists that can do it. So the rules don't actually have a set of universal guidelines about what being dematerialised means, but a lot of these rules seem to imply that they do exist. I'm happy to be wrong, though.
      • All the stuff about Spirit-Caging Mandala is giving me really fun flashbacks to Fullmetal Alchemist.
      Sorcery

      I'm doing this here, as there are only 3 abilities to go through. These all seem basic and similar enough, with each charm allowing access to a particular level of sorcery, and granting additional "control spells" (I assume I'll find out what those are in the Sorcery section) as part of the charm purchase.

      The only weird wrinkle is that you can't bypass the Essence requirements by taking a supernal. I don't know if this is a bad thing or not, as Sorcery is its own system rather than a subset of charms, but given that abilities like Martial Arts DO bypass Essence requirements by taking a Brawl supernal, it feels like an oddity.

      And that's it for now! I'll be doing Performance next, section by section as per Craft.

      In other news, I definitely have a gaming group now! Character creation is in just under 2 weeks' time. Can I get everything before Chapter 8 reviewed by then? I'm definitely going to try! It'll probably be a useful companion read as I make the setting, which might change up the format of the review a bit, but will make it that much more hands-on.
      Last edited by Xerxes; 06-10-2016, 04:02 AM. Reason: Spacing gremlins


      A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
      Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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      • Brawl Supernal only gets you Martial Arts as Favored/Caste. You can only ignore Essence prereqs if you Supernal Martial Arts, which can be a pretty powerful choice, honestly.

        The higher tiers of Sorcery are really, really powerful, so having Supernal Occult doesn't net you anything with it. If that's a big problem for you and your players, you might allow Supernal Occult to boost your effective Essence by 1 for purchasing Sorcery Charms, so for example, your Essence 2 Solar with Occult Supernal can purchase Celestial Circle Sorcery, despite being Essence 3. Same for Solar at Essence 4 (this is a pretty big deal, I guess.)


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        • Right... that clears up quite a bit of my confusion about how the two things interact. & fair point on the sorcery; balance is required.


          A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
          Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

          Comment


          • I love magic. I always want to play the Wizard in DnD. I loved Sorcery even in 2E when using it was kinda rough. It feels like a really raw deal to exclude Sorcery from Occult Supernal. But, I understand why they did it. Celestial Sorcery is only two charm picks, and that makes Terrestrial Workings cheap, and Summoning 2nd Circle Demons out of chargen is probably not great for game balance. It would be the Druid Problem on crack.

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            • Occult is one of the Abilities I just cannot get excited about. Like - sorcery's great. There is basically no reason not to at least one-dip for TCS, + Invulnerable Skin of Bronze if you can't come up with something else. That's too much utility in one package to ignore.

              But, okay, the rest of occult: see spirits; touch spirits; kill spirits dead. Fine, that's a utility package. It's also... what, four Charms? Then we get into the interminable binding Charms, which seem to only really be worthwhile if you're fighting multiple powerful spirits simultaneously - like, what are you doing with the draw-motes-from-the-target thing that's more valuable than the motes and actions you just wasted locking it up?


              Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

              Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

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              • Originally posted by Irked View Post
                Occult is one of the Abilities I just cannot get excited about. Like - sorcery's great. There is basically no reason not to at least one-dip for TCS, + Invulnerable Skin of Bronze if you can't come up with something else. That's too much utility in one package to ignore.

                But, okay, the rest of occult: see spirits; touch spirits; kill spirits dead. Fine, that's a utility package. It's also... what, four Charms? Then we get into the interminable binding Charms, which seem to only really be worthwhile if you're fighting multiple powerful spirits simultaneously - like, what are you doing with the draw-motes-from-the-target thing that's more valuable than the motes and actions you just wasted locking it up?
                It's funny, because I felt the same way initially. But just recently I had a little time on my hands and went back and re-read all of the Occult Charms, and you know what? I was blown away by how flippin' cool and powerful they were. After thinking over the difference a little I realized that it was because I was reading them through a different lens. The game I'm gearing up for has two characters who are deeply invested in spirit shenanigans: one is a Twilight demonologist, and the other is a Dawn who comes from a culture that is largely dominated by the ancestor cult and for whom interactions with the spirits of the departed is a significant part of regular life. Either would benefit greatly by investing in these Charms.

                It's worth noting that if you measure the Occult Charms from the lens of "are these useful to Stereotypical Wizard-Guy" then you will likely be disappointed, because they are not (and never were) intended for that character. Sorcery covers that angle. But if you instead have a character that is interested in demon-binding or exorcism or molding the fabric of the spirit-world, they're kind of awesome. Likewise if the game you are playing in doesn't make the influence and presence of spirits and ghosts and demons and gods a significant part of the story, the Occult Charms will seem underwhelming because they don't come up that often. But if the game you are playing in does make those figures significant and important then these Charms will likely be crazy useful and a similarly big part of the game. Just like how Melee Charms seem "more useful" in a combat-heavy game and Socialize Charms seem "more useful" in a high-society game. It's not that the Charms are inherently better or worse, it's that story emphasis plays a big part in their relative utility.

                My sense is that a lot of people have a much easier time recognizing the utility of a Charm that enhances an attack roll than one that binds a spirit for the simple reason that attack rolls show up in all of their games and spirits often don't. I feel confident that if any of my players ask me whether the Occult Charms will come up during this game I will nod my head vigorously and say "Oh hell yes they will!"


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                • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                  The Solars apparently slew the enemies of the gods with an Essence 1 charm! Really?
                  There's really no benefit to encouraging people to think of Essence 1 Charms as piddly.

                  ...

                  Re: Sorcery and Supernal Occult, Leetspeak has the right of it, but there's another reason why Supernal doesn't let you pick up Celestial and Solar Sorcery early, too: We didn't want Supernal Occult to feel mandatory for sorcerers.

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                  • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                    The Solars apparently slew the enemies of the gods with an Essence 1 charm! Really?
                    In addition to SLS's comment about even E1 charms are amazing skills and shouldn't be overlooked, well... Here's the way I see it:

                    Yeah, GET was used to slay the Enemies of the Gods in the Time Before, but they were just part of the solution. They had to cleave through the Daeva Hordes and the servitor beings of the Primordials, Destroy their landmass-sized bodies, fight through an army, and when they struck the final blow, Ghost-Eating Technique was there to snuff the last light out of them.

                    Or to put it even simpler: Slaying one of the Primordials took a LOT of power, effort, and aid. Ghost-Eating Technique made the killing stick.

                    Also, by the Unwritten Non-Binding Laws of Played Exalted, you get one time where you stunt the use to Ghost-Eating Technique via saying "OM NOM NOM"

                    Make it count.


                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                    • Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
                      Re: Sorcery and Supernal Occult, Leetspeak has the right of it, but there's another reason why Supernal doesn't let you pick up Celestial and Solar Sorcery early, too: We didn't want Supernal Occult to feel mandatory for sorcerers.
                      I'm sorry to say that, but I think this went too far - at the moment there is pretty much no reason for Sorcerer to ever take Occult as Supernal, which I find pretty counter-intuitive. Lore Supernal is far better for Sorcerer than Occult, which I find very strange for main ability governing Sorcery (not to mention that Twilights are really starved for worthwhile Supernal, as they pretty much have Craft and Lore (Bureaucracy is there, but who make Bureaucracy Twilight not Eclipse?), Occult if planned session will be Spirit-heavy).


                      My homebrew/rewrites:
                      2nd->3rd Edition Sorcery Spells Rewrite
                      Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes Evocations
                      Solar Occult Charms for Sorcerers
                      Solar Thrown Charms (with Solar Danmaku Charms)

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                      • Originally posted by Daerian View Post
                        Occult if planned session will be Spirit-heavy).
                        To be fair, a Twilight sorcerer can MAKE a session spirit-heavy without much difficulty.


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                        • I cannot take the claim "Twilights are starved for a worthwhile Supernal" seriously. They're really not.


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                          • Originally posted by Ferryman View Post
                            I cannot take the claim "Twilights are starved for a worthwhile Supernal" seriously. They're really not.
                            It's not that they have bad supernals, they're just few in number compared to other castes. Lore & craft are powerful, but their options are very samey. Compare the variety of craft & lore to the melee, brawl, martial arts & archery options for a dawn. Or the socialise, presence, bureaucracy & performance options for an ecilpse.

                            Speaking from where I am now (pre sorcery), I would never want to play a Twilight. They feel so one-dimensional.


                            A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                            Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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                            • At some point there'll probably be a decent Sorcerous Project-focused Occult tree, I assume.

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                              • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                                Speaking from where I am now (pre sorcery), I would never want to play a Twilight. They feel so one-dimensional.
                                That's not all! There is another problem - there is nothing really that makes Twilight better Sorcerer than Dawn if they take Favored Occult and maybe Lore (for 1 Charm exactly). I would even argue that Zeniths, Eclipses and Dawns are better Sorcerers than Twilights in this edition (thanks to their anima powers and/or abilities spread). All Twilight has that's uniquely good for Sorcery is Supernal Lore (for fast Heaven-Turning Calculations, which has it's own big bag of problems) and pokemon anima (and even then they cannot really utilize and build around that as they don't have Survival as Caste Ability).
                                Supernal Survival Zenith with Tyrant Lizard and summoned army of demons/elementals will be much better pet class. Dawn will be much better offensive combat Sorcerer. Eclipse will be much better social Sorcerer. And at the same time they will be just as good as Twilight at the rest of Sorcery. It could have been remedied if Occult had some interesting options for Sorcerers as Supernal, but there are none - no reason to ever have it as anything else as class/favored.

                                Originally posted by Stephen Lea Sheppard View Post
                                At some point there'll probably be a decent Sorcerous Project-focused Occult tree, I assume.
                                I'm going to take your word for it ;-)
                                But I still would like some Charms working with rest of the Sorcery system.
                                Last edited by Daerian; 06-10-2016, 05:09 PM.


                                My homebrew/rewrites:
                                2nd->3rd Edition Sorcery Spells Rewrite
                                Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes Evocations
                                Solar Occult Charms for Sorcerers
                                Solar Thrown Charms (with Solar Danmaku Charms)

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