Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't overly clear. I appreciate that initiative is only useful in combat, but Is there any real point in using the charm during a combat that's already been started by someone else that you haven't joined, for example. The "lone wolf" example feels like its only use - during a multi-person melee, I can't see it having much advantage in that context.
    In a recent session I played in, a large, multi-person melee with 7 Dragon-Blooded, somebody used Stalking Wolf Attitude to oneshot one of the enemy combatants and knock him out of the fight immediately. It's a very good charm, because it sidesteps the normal steps of attack resolution; instead of having to worry about soak, or defense, or anything of the sort, you just walk around it and can directly hit their health track with just one decisive attack.

    Comment


    • Survival
      Warning: I have heard this described as the "pet tree", which may influence my view. I will try to keep any such thoughts in check, though.

      Food-Gathering Exercise
      • The land gives the Solar strength.
      • Make a Survival roll. Each success gets enough food to feed a person for a day. Even on a fail or if there is no food around, she still gets enough for one person. In addition, each use builds towards a "climactic" encounter with some form of food. No guidance given at all about how many uses or successes this requires.
      • Shut the hell up, charm. You tell me that the Storyteller is somehow overridden by this charm (in spite of the orichalcum or gold rule, they both give me the right to slap this down), but you won't give me any guidelines on how to use it or structure it, beyond "it gets more likely the more the charm is used"? How dare you be so vehking condescending.
      Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit

      • Solar can survive in the harshest of conditions, without preparation.
      • Negates all environmental penalties to a Survival roll, and stops "the deleterious effects of exposure to extreme conditions". Does not protect against environmental damage. Lowers the difficulty to forage and to find shelter by 2, minimum difficulty 1.
      • So... what are "the deleterious effect of exposure to extreme conditions? The charm implies they are something different from both environmental penalties and environmental damage.
      Friendship with Animals Approach

      • Exalt can deal with almost any wild animal.
      • Herbivores will become docile, and allow basic handling. Predators will just let the Solar pass through unharmed. Does not work on sentient, trained or desperate animals.
      Trackless Region Navigation

      • Solar can find her way through the roughest terrain.
      • Solar and an Essence-based number of followers can travel up to 10 miles a day across harsh terrain, or 20 miles across wilderness. Solar automatically succeeds on the next Survival roll she makes to find the next topographical feature of her choice.
      Unshakeable Bloodhound Technique

      • Solar can track someone through the wilderness following the sparsest of signs.
      • Supplements a tracking action, rerolling 5s and 6s until they don't appear, and treating opponent's 1s as 10s. Can contest track-covering magic.
      • There's that "perfect" word again... Feels like it means more than it does in Ex3.
      Spirit-Tied Pet

      • Exalt feels chosen by her pet as well as by the Unconquered Son.
      • Exalt elevates the status of a familiar, giving it a defining tie of loyalty to the Solar, allowing the Solar to draw 5 motes and 1 willpower per day from it. May also use a single sense of the familiar's, entering into a meditative state for the duration. Can control familiar's actions at Survival 5.
      • Hang on, this is Simple, not Permanent? So... the familiar only has the intimacy for as long as the motes are committed? OK, but that feels really odd. Not to mention paying 10 motes to regain 5 seems beyond silly. How is this supposed to be used? It may be a one-off cost, but if so it doesn't say that anywhere.
      • Nor yet does it give any limit to the number of familiars this can create. Cue intensely loyal menagerie!
      • Are familiars explicitly those created with this charm? It doesn't say in this charm's text, just uses the word "familiar" everywhere, like it actually means something, without defining it or saying where it would be defined.
      Beast-Mastering Behaviour

      • Solar holds dominion over beasts.
      • Can train an animal to follow her commands faster than most people, based on Essence. Higher Essence levels unlock magical abilities for the animal. The first level of these appear to be innate, but the highest level is entirely at the Exalt's whim. Animal training rules are provided.
      • OK, so we have animal training rules in the middle of a charm. Wonderful. Please tell me the index references this... only in the vaugest way possible. "For more on Animals, see Survival", more or less. Well that's as clear as mud...
      On Spirit-Tied Pet Sidebar

      • Why wasn't this little note about the cost of the charm on first activation in the main charm text? Why waste the margin space on a sidebar to declare something so thoroughly mundane?
      Deadly Onslaught Coordination

      • Familiar can attack on command.
      • Solar can make her familiar attack at the same instant that the Solar does.
      Bestial Traits Technique

      • Can enhance a familiar beyond its normal capacity.
      • Reroll 1s until 1s fail to appear on an animal training roll. Can increase its traits through training, including giving it a unique merit.
      Hide-Hardening Practice

      • Solar fiddles with the familiar's metaphysical structure, taking out the softness and hardening it.
      • Increase familiar's soak and hardness. Can be done up to Essence times on a single familiar.
      • But what about if we WANT it to have beautiful soft fur!!??
      Life of the Aurochs

      • Solar taps Essence to enhance their familiar's vitality.
      • Each purchase increases a given familiar's health levels, and ultimately its size too.
      Familiar-Honing Instruction
      • Solar inspires devotion from all beasts.
      • Send telepathic orders to familiars. Successes on a Cha+Surv roll add successes to familiar's attempt to follow that order. At higher Essence, this becomes reflexive.
      Spirit-Hunting Hound
      • Familiars can see spirits, and the Exalt can boost these with Essence.
      • Familiars can attempt to detect spirits for a turn. Once it can see them, the ability to see them lasts a scene.
      Ambush Predator Style
      • Exalt feels the Essence pulse of battle, and guides her familiar with it.
      • Roll Wits+Survival, with Essence auto-successes, and add it to the familiar's Join Battle roll. If Familiar-Honing Instruction was used, successes on the JB roll become cascading.
      • Would have been really nice if "cascading" was actually used consistently in the rules.
      Element-Resisting Prana
      • Solar can survive in any environment.
      • While using Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit, Solar can survive lethal environments. Environmental damage is reduced by the Solar's Resistance rating.
      A Familiar Investment Sidebar
      • Oh, the puns.
      • This is a good point. I was starting to wonder what happened to the charms pumped into a familiar when the Essence-fuelled kitteh died.
      Traceless Passage
      • Exalt can vanish into the wilderness.
      • Can cover the Solar's tracks, and a number of followers, with Essence auto-successes and double 9s. Solar cannot be tracked mundanely.
      • So can the followers be tracked by mundane means? I assume so, otherwise the number of successes on the roll wouldn't really matter.
      Eye-Deceiving Camouflage
      • Exalt can camouflage things. Flavour-crunch blur.
      • Camouflaging an object takes an hour. Camouflaged object cannot be detected by mundane senses while immobile. Int + Survival roll with rerolled 1s until 1s don't appear is the difficulty of any magical attempts at detection.
      Red-Toothed Execution Order
      • Exalt orders her familiar to kill at just the right moment.
      • Adds extra successes to a Familiar's decisive attack and the raw damage. Forces the familiar to reset to base initiative. Cannot be used more than once per scene, resets if familiar raises its initiative to 10+.
      • Why is this reflexive if it supplements an action? Is it because it's the familiar's action, not the Exalt's?
      • Also, when is this activated, given that the Solar and their familiar will likely have different points in the initiative order? Does the Solar activate it and wait for the familiar's turn, activate it before their own turn somehow, or what?
      Ghost Panther Slinking
      • No flavour text.
      • When using Sense-Riding Discipline from Spirit-Tied Pet, protect the familiar from a particular form of sensory detection. Does not negate environmental penalties to animal-based stealth.
      Saga Beast Virtue
      • Solar unlocks some Form of the Beast thing in her familiar.
      • Familiar grows in size, with physical stat boosts and various mutations based on the Solar's Essence rating. While in Saga Beast Form, familiar is immune to fear.
      • I may be thick, but I really dislike how many charms (as a whole) are activation-based but this is barely mentioned in the text. I know there's the Permanent keyword, but I was getting through this charm thinking "you walk around with a mutated cat and someone's going to notice and call you out as a Fae beastie", and then I get "While in Saga Beast form" at the end, and am very surprised. This isn't the first time it's happened. To make my lazy self happy, the charm text needs to call this sort of thing out a little bit more. Am I just a terrible reader?
      Phantom-Rending Fangs
      • Solar channels condemnation through her familiar.
      • Supplements a familar's attack roll. While a familiar has an immaterial being in a clinch, it is vulnerable to material attacks. When used with Familiar-Honing Instruction, the Solar can trade in FHI bonus dice to reduce the cost of this charm, which can reduce the cost of this down to zero.
      • Same question as RTEO. When is this activated?
      Force-Building Predator Style
      • No flavour text.
      • When a familiar goes into combat with Ambush Predator Style, automatically gets 1 initiative per turn. Does not function while Deadly Predator Method is active.
      Crimson Talon Vigour
      • The Solar and her familiar fight together as the familiar learns the Exalt's movements and way of attacking.
      • For each withering attack the Solar lands, the familiar gains initiative equal to half the amount taken. This may not exceed the Solar's Essence score. Must be repurchased for every familiar who wants to use it.
      • What's an "Essence score"? Is it Essence rating or current Essence pool?
      On Saga Beast Virtue Sidebar
      • This
      • Sidebar
      • Is
      • On
      • The
      • Wrong
      • PAGE! I know I whine about this a lot, but it never stops being irritating.
      • Also, WHY IS THIS IN A SIDEBAR AND NOT IN THE CHARM TEXT!!??
      Deadly Predator Method
      • Solar crushes a star of Essence, transports people back to the ancient world, and that ancient Essence is hoovered up by the familiar, who is now super-awesome.
      • Familiar grows in size, looks more awesome and gets intimidate bonuses, cannot be intimidated, gets Essence-based auto-successes on Athletics actions, does attacks with Essence-based auto-successes, does not reset initiative to base unless Red-Toothed Execution Order is used, gains soak vs withering and is invulnerable to decisive damage, can only be hurt by falling and crushing damage but even this will not kill it, and may roll JB twice and take the highest result. Familiar loses 1 initiative per round while this charm is active, and if the familiar crashes the charm ends. May be used once per battle, reset by killing an opponent with Red-Toothed Execution Order.
      General thoughts:

      • Hmmm... six charms that aren't related to familiars, out of twenty-three. I can understand this tree's reputation. Although I also struggle to imagine that many charms outside of the six that are particularly survival-focused. Maybe I need to spend some time with Bear Grylls or something, get a fresh perspective on what other charms could be made.
      • A flag to the Familiar merit as the base for all the familiar charms would have been helpful. I was wondering if there was a definition of what a familiar was, and only remembered the Merit about three-quarters of the way through the tree.
      • For all the talk about familiars, it feels like it treats them fairly flippantly. Ride does an excellent job of generating this atmosphere, but with these... I had various "what's that, Skip?" scenarios running through my head, or Battle Cat. I cannot take familiars seriously as written.
      Almost there! Thrown next.



      A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
      Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

      Comment


      • "Red-Toothed Execution Order
        • Exalt orders her familiar to kill at just the right moment.
        • Adds extra successes to a Familiar's decisive attack and the raw damage. Forces the familiar to reset to base initiative. Cannot be used more than once per scene, resets if familiar raises its initiative to 10+.
        • Why is this reflexive if it supplements an action? Is it because it's the familiar's action, not the Exalt's?
        • Also, when is this activated, given that the Solar and their familiar will likely have different points in the initiative order? Does the Solar activate it and wait for the familiar's turn, activate it before their own turn somehow, or what?"
        Its reflexive because you do it outside of your turn ie. when the familiar attacks.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
          [*]Hang on, this is Simple, not Permanent? So... the familiar only has the intimacy for as long as the motes are committed?
          Nah, it's Simple/Instant - it creates an effect when activated that doesn't require ongoing commitment of resources. (If it was Permanent, you'd have to rebuy the Charm for each application of it.)

          Survival is one of the first places where Ex3's approach to XP-handling starts to just completely weird me out. So, recapping, and ignoring the purchases of the Charms themselves:
          -Want to make a bunch of daiklaves? No XP. Might even give you some XP, with the right build.
          -Insta-learn a bunch of evocations for those daiklaves via Charms? No XP.
          -Manually train up a bunch of evocations for those daiklaves? Full XP cost; investment lost if sword is lost.
          -Train up a bunch of warriors? No XP.
          -Train up a bunch of scholars? Get ready to pay 25-50% of the cost of what you want them to learn.
          -Train up a pet? XP cost per use after the first. But if it dies, you get a refund!
          -Wyld Shaping? XP cost just to make the attempt, which might fail.
          -Sorcerous working? XP cost if it succeeds, but with a refund if it stops mattering. (Weird XP costs.)

          If there's a pattern here, I'm not seeing it. Why do dots of Melee not cost ongoing XP, in addition to purchasing a Charm, but dots of Lore do? Why do pets and workings refund your investment if they exit the story, but evocation-heavy artifacts don't? Why does "I spent my downtime sorcering up this magic whatsit" cost XP, when "I spent my downtime building up my army" costs nothing and "I spent my downtime building this magic whatsit" may actually get you XP back?


          Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

          Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Irked View Post
            -Insta-learn a bunch of evocations for those daiklaves via Charms? No XP.
            Which charms is this one referring to? I don't remember seeing anything that can do that.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
              Which charms is this one referring to? I don't remember seeing anything that can do that.
              Wake the Sleeper, in Lore, is the best example. (Maybe the only, in the final version?) Max pool + WP + stunt + Excellency is ~12 successes average; for an Artifact 4, that's 4 free Evocations once a story.

              (It does require buying deep into Lore, but it's not like Wyld-Shaping doesn't require deep investments in Lore, and that still costs XP per use.)

              (Unless you're also deep in Craft, and then it can be free!)


              Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

              Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

              Comment


              • Re: The pet tree and what charms could be "survival."

                Others have brought that point up before. It's funny, actually, there was a post from Lea some time ago. It was a little reducto ad absurdum exercise where he suggested that Survival, Sail, and Ride could be developed as Pilot, Navigation, and Husbandry. He then went on to illustrate how dumb that'd be.

                By contrast, a lot of forum posters said "actually that would probably work better." I rather concur, myself

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Irked View Post
                  If there's a pattern here, I'm not seeing it. Why do dots of Melee not cost ongoing XP, in addition to purchasing a Charm, but dots of Lore do? Why do pets and workings refund your investment if they exit the story, but evocation-heavy artifacts don't? Why does "I spent my downtime sorcering up this magic whatsit" cost XP, when "I spent my downtime building up my army" costs nothing and "I spent my downtime building this magic whatsit" may actually get you XP back?
                  That's why every evocation should have "awakens at no cost" special clausule!

                  As for Survival. it's really missing on really amazing "survive in harsh environment" Charms, "protect others from these environment" Charms, "walk 40 days without food or water" Charms and few other Biblical or mythological effects that really should be there.
                  Last edited by Daerian; 06-22-2016, 11:41 AM.


                  My homebrew/rewrites:
                  2nd->3rd Edition Sorcery Spells Rewrite
                  Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes Evocations
                  Solar Occult Charms for Sorcerers
                  Solar Thrown Charms (with Solar Danmaku Charms)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Irked View Post
                    If there's a pattern here, I'm not seeing it. Why do dots of Melee not cost ongoing XP, in addition to purchasing a Charm, but dots of Lore do? Why do pets and workings refund your investment if they exit the story, but evocation-heavy artifacts don't? Why does "I spent my downtime sorcering up this magic whatsit" cost XP, when "I spent my downtime building up my army" costs nothing and "I spent my downtime building this magic whatsit" may actually get you XP back?
                    Preach it, brother.

                    As for Survival ideas that aren't familiar related...
                    Creating trails/trail markers/maps that are so perfect others can navigate them without your skills.
                    Create temporary shelters that throw off your pursuers.

                    Upgrade Food-Gathering Exercise to allow it to avoid the "climatic encounter," or to turn the encounter into a benefit.
                    -- Upgrade to drive away game, forcing those following the Solar to contend with reduced supplies.
                    --Upgrade to allow the Solar to serve as a game warden for a region, balancing its ecosystem and essence by building dams for ponds, culling runts, etc. Makes the land more fecund, or perhaps more dangerous, over time.

                    ...I could spit out ideas all day. Seriously, there are many areas of human expertise the game files under "Survival." People who think there isn't much material beyond Pokemon should turn off their computers and go outside.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                      Survival
                      *snip*
                      Element-Resisting Prana
                      • Solar can survive in any environment.
                      • While using Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit, Solar can survive lethal environments. Environmental damage is reduced by the Solar's Resistance rating.
                      And

                      Originally posted by Daerian View Post
                      *snip*
                      As for Survival. it's really missing on really amazing "survive in harsh environment" Charms, "protect others from these environment" Charms, "walk 40 days without food or water" Charms and few other Biblical or mythological effects that really should be there.
                      Okay I'm feeling stuck here. I got the feeling with Hardship Surviving Mendicant and Element-Resisting Prana a character could walk underwater in terms of pressure resistance, but not be safe from drowning; they would still need some means to breath under water. But no one else seems confused by this, am I crazy?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Major View Post
                        Okay I'm feeling stuck here. I got the feeling with Hardship Surviving Mendicant and Element-Resisting Prana a character could walk underwater in terms of pressure resistance, but not be safe from drowning; they would still need some means to breath under water. But no one else seems confused by this, am I crazy?
                        Charms that let one go without breathing (or hold their breath for a long time) has traditionally existed in Resistance. The disconnect here is because there is a fair amount of thematic overlap between Survival and Resistance, so picking which charms go where is bound to cause some confusion.

                        That said, I don't recall there being ANY "I don't need to breath (as much)" charms in the Solar set, so I admit this is a hole, wherever it may lie.


                        I post Artifacts in this thread. How I make them is in this thread.
                        I have made many tools and other things for 3rd Edition. I now host all of my creations on my Google site: The Vault of the Unsung Hero

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Irked View Post
                          Why do pets and workings refund your investment if they exit the story, but evocation-heavy artifacts don't?
                          I've said it before and I'll keep saying it as many times as needed: If you invest experience into the Evocations of your Daiklave, it gets destroyed, and the ST doesn't refund you for it? That ST is a jackass.

                          (Granted, I've also said many times that if a ST destroys your Daiklave without permission and answers objections with "Suck it, I'm the ST" then they have no right to be a ST)


                          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                            I've said it before and I'll keep saying it as many times as needed: If you invest experience into the Evocations of your Daiklave, it gets destroyed, and the ST doesn't refund you for it? That ST is a jackass.
                            I don't disagree - but so why isn't that a rule? Like, I'd say that applies equally well to weapons/pets/workings/Wyld Shaped things; why do the middle two get call-outs and the others don't?

                            Originally posted by Totentanz View Post
                            Upgrade Food-Gathering Exercise to allow it to avoid the "climatic encounter," or to turn the encounter into a benefit.
                            Isn't it already supposed to be a benefit? Like, I read that Charm as saying, "You pop this Charm, you get just enough food to survive; three activations later, you get a chance to bring down a mammoth."


                            Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

                            Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

                            Comment


                            • Why does "Remember Who You Are Playing." need to be such a common reminder?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Irked View Post
                                I don't disagree - but so why isn't that a rule? Like, I'd say that applies equally well to weapons/pets/workings/Wyld Shaped things; why do the middle two get call-outs and the others don't?
                                Maybe the writers assumed that players would read how it works to Wyld Shaping and Workings and would assume it works across the board for all similar things.

                                Which is kind of something you don't want to assume with players. At least plonk down a sidebar in the Systems chapter that says "Hey, if a player's invested Experience into something through Charms, or Evocations for an artifact, and the thing they invested Experience in is destroyed, refund them. Don't be one of THOSE Storytellers."


                                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X