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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
    Transcendent Warlord’s Genius
    • Solar looks into her past and finds a perfect order to give her troops.
    • When using Battle Path Ascendant, can order and execute a strategem with a threshold of half the successes of her JB roll.
    • I don't understand this at all. The better you roll on the JB the harder your next move is? What if you just want to carry out a Back to the Sea strategem, but get 6 successes on Join Battle? Is Back to the Sea now somehow have a threshold of 3?
    As I read the charm the join battle successes decide which strategems you get to execute, so to carry out a Back to the Sea strategem you would need to roll at least 2 successes, while a pincer attack would require 6+ successes.
    I also don't think you need to make any other rolls to activate the strategem except for the join battle one.

    Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
    Battle-Visionary’s Foresight
    • Solar draws on knowledge longer than her lifetime, and can watch previous battles through using Essence.
    • Takes one to five minutes to complete. Player secretly writes down 2 strategic manoeuvres. If an opponent wins the Strategic Manoeuvre roll and carries out one of the manoeuvres written down, the Solar's player automatically wins the roll and can execute a strategem of her own with the same value. This can be extended to strategems published in later books. Solar can trade in the 2 prepared strategems to counter a strategem... of indeterminate nature, beyond the fact that it's not been published yet.
    • Hang on, so the writing down doesn't actually commit the Solar to anything, she can just cash in both to reflexively counter anything? So what's the point of writing things down?
    You can only trade your two prepared stretegems for any "special, mystical stratagems" your opponent uses, by which i think they mean "charm-based".
    Normal strategems which just happens to be published later have to be actually predicted.
    Which given how often it'll be impossible for you to even know if your opponent know any such charms before the strategem roll seems fair enough to me.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Vegetalss4 View Post
      You can only trade your two prepared stretegems for any "special, mystical stratagems" your opponent uses, by which i think they mean "charm-based".
      Normal strategems which just happens to be published later have to be actually predicted.
      Which given how often it'll be impossible for you to even know if your opponent know any such charms before the strategem roll seems fair enough to me.
      That's my read as well, but I still think it's odd - in effect, it makes Charm-based strategies strictly worse than mundane ones against Solars with this Charm, which I think is bonkers.

      And that's before you get to the inevitable questions of whether X Charm counts, because 3E is allergic to clarity.


      "For me, there's no fundamental conflict between really loving something and also seeing it as very profoundly flawed." -- Jay Eddidin

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      • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
        Irked also changed stuff to make it more balanced and simpler I think. This is the only simple summary.
        That's not quite true - I do have a rewrite, but separate from that, I also did a summary/let's read thread last November. It's been interesting to see where Xerxes and I match up, and where our reactions differ.

        Originally posted by BlueWinds View Post
        One thing you're highlighting very effectively is how repetitive and boring all the charm fluff is. Occasionally there's something neat, but most of it is really phoned in. "The Solar is excellent and uses her anima to write the 100th variant on this sentence in a dozen pages. Her readers fall over dead."
        So much this. The funny thing for me is that this was Holden's critique of Lunars 2e, back in the day: that when you pick up the book, you go, "Oh, man, awesome, look at all these Charms he fit in!" - and then you realize that was achieved by writing, "The Lunar is awesome, like an animal or something" at the start of every Charm.

        (I'd actually be reasonably okay with many Solar Charms getting little or no fluff, honestly - if something's a straight damage-adder, you don't need to dress that up for me. I can fill in "The Solar hits you like a human would, but, like, a really good human," myself. It's the bad fluff - the wordy or, ah, sesquipedalian bits - that are bothersome.)

        ***

        You made it! Congratulations!

        Only a little bit left now, and compared to that... slog, it's easy going.
        Last edited by Irked; 06-26-2016, 07:12 PM.


        Homebrew: Lunar Charms for 3e

        Solar Charm Rewrite (Complete) (Now with Charm cards!)

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        • The links in the front page send me to the front page.

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          • Originally posted by Aranfan View Post
            The links in the front page send me to the front page.
            Yeah the links are misformatted. For some reason, every instance of the link that should be a # is instead a ?

            It's strange.

            Comment


            • The links were missing the "=" in the "?p=123456" syntax. All fixed now.

              Intro Fiction
              • I like the style of this piece. It flows nicely, towards the twist at the end. Not overly sure about the twist itself, as the text doesn't imply much of a gap between the treatment and the summoning, but that's a minor beef.
              Martial Arts
              • Good clarification on the use of Martial Arts with other Abilities. While it's not an answer everyone will like, at least it's clear.
              Martial Arts Charms
              • Martial arts trees are complete, apart from when ST fiat comes into play. Good to know.
              • Martial arts do lethal damage. It's nice to see my earlier query ont his is resolved.
              Style Weapons
              • Generally feels quite simple & self-explanatory.
              • Can you do armed and unarmed attacks at once if you only have one weapon in hand? Or use legs with a sword? More of a general question than MA specific, but as they bring up combinations here, I thought it was vaguely appropriate.
              Armour
              • Explanation makes sense.
              Keywords
              • The "Terrestrial" keyword is weird. If Solars have their own, and Sidereals will have their own, and Dragon-blooded have their own, what's left?
              • Is there seriously no way to get mastery if you're not a Solar or similar? So a Dragon-blooded or Exigent who has trained in a style their whole life won't get what a Solar gets after learning the style after a few months? I guess it reinforces the "Solars are the bestest at being the best evvar" theme, but it rankles slightly. Maybe it's just the wording. If it was "Celestial" or "Solar", rather than "Mastery", I wouldn't be complaining half as much.
              • Also, seeing as we're into tags, are there any for mortal users? Or do mortals just roll their MA ability in their attack rolls, and not get any special toys?
              • ...actually, that would be kind of interesting. No non-charm Martial Arts gambits to be seen anywhere...
              Mixing Styles Sidebar
              • Good common-sense flagging.
              And so we go on to Snake Style! I'll be going through these ability by ability, as I have charms.
              Last edited by Xerxes; 06-27-2016, 03:00 AM.


              A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
              Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

              Comment


              • There are speculations that Dragon-bloods may be able to get mastery effects on the elemental dragon styles (as those were designed for DBs) That being said those mechanics aren't out yet so yeah, as of right now there is no way to get those for a non-solar.

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                • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                  [*]Is there seriously no way to get mastery if you're not a Solar or similar? So a Dragon-blooded or Exigent who has trained in a style their whole life won't get what a Solar gets after learning the style after a few months? I guess it reinforces the "Solars are the bestest at being the best evvar" theme, but it rankles slightly. Maybe it's just the wording.
                  Only Solar can get the highest Circle of Sorcery too, what make MA different ?

                  Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                  If it was "Celestial" or "Solar", rather than "Mastery", I wouldn't be complaining half as much.
                  One of the staple character of wuxia story is one who train in a style endlessly but unable to unlock its true power because they just lack that special something. Mastery conveys that perfectly.

                  Originally posted by satoshi View Post
                  There are speculations that Dragon-bloods may be able to get mastery effects on the elemental dragon styles (as those were designed for DBs) That being said those mechanics aren't out yet so yeah, as of right now there is no way to get those for a non-solar.
                  I'm pretty sure they said that the Dragon styles won't have the Mastery keyword.
                  Last edited by Jen; 06-27-2016, 04:22 AM.


                  The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

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                  • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                    The "Terrestrial" keyword is weird. If Solars have their own, and Sidereals will have their own, and Dragon-blooded have their own, what's left?
                    Funny story, true story. In the second major leak (pre-layout), the Terrestrial keyword effects was actually the CELESTIAL Keyword. Which didn't make sense to me. "Hey, Celestial Exalts! IGNORE THIS KEYWORD!", but now it's "Hey Terrestrials. Pay attention to this!"

                    Is there seriously no way to get mastery if you're not a Solar or similar? So a Dragon-blooded or Exigent who has trained in a style their whole life won't get what a Solar gets after learning the style after a few months? I guess it reinforces the "Solars are the bestest at being the best evvar" theme, but it rankles slightly. Maybe it's just the wording. If it was "Celestial" or "Solar", rather than "Mastery", I wouldn't be complaining half as much.
                    Well it plays into the Solar thing of Mastery of Mortal Skill. Lunars may not get the Mastery benefits of a Martial Art, but they can in fact turn into a tiger and eat your face. Exigents will likely have their own native talents to make up for not getting as much mileage out of Martial Arts as Solars.

                    And if you want to get overly technical, it's not just Solars that benefit from Mastery keywords. Sidereals are mentioned as having their own ways to get the Mastery benefits, which makes sense as they're the best at the philosophy of martial arts.

                    Also, the Mastery keyword notes that Abyssals get the Mastery benefits, being the dark reflections of Solars.

                    And finally on this note, well... Not EVERY Martial Arts charm has Mastery effects. Many charms don't even have a Terrestrial effect. The Terrestrial/Standard/Mastery power split isn't found in every Martial Arts charm.

                    Also, seeing as we're into tags, are there any for mortal users? Or do mortals just roll their MA ability in their attack rolls, and not get any special toys?
                    Mechanically, a mortal with Tiger Style 5 will make attacks with [Dexterity + Tiger Style], and won't get any Charms. I admit that while I have spoken up in the past to not remove the need for the Martial Artist Merit for Exalts, I'm a bit more lenient towards requiring Mortals to use it.


                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                    • Snake Style

                      Snake Style is about hitting hard and fast, and aiming for weak spots.

                      Serpentine Evasion
                      • Snakes are dodgy critters.
                      • Adds a bonus to Evasion vs a single attack. Can declare this for an attack that happens after her action, and if this is so it may be declared after the attack has been rolled. At Mastery,
                      • The wording for declaring after the attack roll was unclear. Took me about three reads to realise it was only for attacks that come after the Snake's own attack.
                      Striking Cobra Technique
                      • The snake wins by hitting first, not hardest.
                      • Add Dex to the raw withering damage or one extra decisive damage against an enemy who hasn't acted this round. More bonuses vs crashed opponents. Mastery adds Essence-based bonuses to effective initiative when using this charm.
                      Snake Form
                      • Martial artist slides around like a snake.
                      • Enemies take a -1 penalty to all attacks against the Solar, -3 if their initiative is lower. Add Dex to the Solar's soak. Can be reflexively activated if the Solar makes an attack that brings an opponent's initiative below her own.
                      Armour-Penetrating Fang Strike
                      • Exalt has hardened fingers, which can punch through metal.
                      • Ignore soak on withering attacks, and a degree of hardness on decisive attacks. Dragon-blooded can use this once per scene, unless they deal a large amount of Snake style decisive damage.
                      Crippling Pressure-Point Strike
                      • Serpent hits key points on the opponent's body, slowing and numbing them.
                      • Gives various gambits that can blind opponents, deaden their nerves and paralyse their lower body. Terrestrials must first dodge a decisive attack and use these gambits in their next action, leveraging the opening created by that dodge.
                      Essence Fangs and Scales Technique
                      • Martial artist's anima forms scales and fangs of Essence.
                      • Enhance the form charm, getting a boost to soak and to raw withering damage. Mastery gives the bonus to decisive attacks when the victim has a lower initiative than the Solar.
                      Uncoiling Serpent Prana
                      • Martial artist flings anima towards a distant target, which uncoils en route to strike.
                      • Can hit enemies up to short range away with lower initiative with withering or decisive damage. At high levels of withering or any decisive, the target gets dragged into close range of the martial artist. When Essence Fangs and Scales Technique is active, this charm can hit from medium range. Terrestrials do not get this range bonus.
                      Snake Strikes the Heel
                      • Stepping on snakes is a bad idea.
                      • Martial artist can make a reflexive clash attack. Withering attacks do not give the initiative to the martial artist, and initiative from decisive attacks can only be used for gambits. Can be used to reflexively activate Uncoiling Serpent Prana and Crippling Pressure-Point Strike.
                      Countless Coils Evasion
                      • Martial artist has no flaws in her defenses.
                      • May negate decisive damage after it's rolled. Resets the martial artist to base initiative, with an initiative bonus if the damage was reduced to nothing. Cannot be combined with other effects that reduce decisive damage. Dragon-blooded must use this charm before damage is rolled, and only once per scene.
                      Essence Venom Strike
                      • Martial artist hits her opponent with a strike of Essence poison.
                      • As long as one level of damage is dealt, target gets one level of agg per round, and a dice penalty to actions. Crashed characters cannot roll to lower the duration of this. Poisoned characters are always assumed to have lower initiative for other Snake style charms until the venom has gone. Terrestrial use of this charm lasts no longer than 5 rounds. Solars can advance its course by precise strikes on pressure points; subsequent attacks immediately apply an amount of the poison's remaining dice to the victim's health track. This does not reduce the duration of the charm's penalties, but does (apparently) reduce the overall damage.
                      • The example that's tacked on the end to this charm is confusing. It doesn't specify anywhere else that the dice penalty and the health damage are split out.
                      The thematics in this are really strong. There's a big message of "MAKE SURE YOU'RE ALWAYS ON HIGHER INITIATIVE THAN YOUR OPPONENT" in these charms. It works really well. And it feles mostly simpler to read than basic charms, but that might just be because they are mostly shorter.


                      Next up, Tigger Style. Or something like that. Does it involve bouncing, I wonder?
                      Last edited by Xerxes; 06-27-2016, 07:50 AM. Reason: Spacing, you are now my MORTAL ENEMY!


                      A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                      Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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                      • RE: Battle Visionary's Foresight


                        If I'm reading it right, the player writes down the two stratagems. If the opposing general uses one of them, they get the benefits of the charm and still have the other stratagem available. If the opponent chooses something the player hadn't selected, the player can turn in both chosen stratagems to counter it.

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                        • Actually, yeah, it does involve bouncing.

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                          • I think you'll find that many martial arts are a lot more clear, concise, and easier to understand. Partly because there's no Solar grandstanding in the fluff, and partly because the other combat trees had to encompass so much in them that they often lack such a clear and cohesive theme.

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                            • There appears to still be some issues with the links not working properly. I was trying to find survival charm recaps and found out that most of the charm set links in the bottom half link back to first page of thread.


                              Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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                              • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                                [/LIST]The thematics in this are really strong. There's a big message of "MAKE SURE YOU'RE ALWAYS ON HIGHER INITIATIVE THAN YOUR OPPONENT" in these charms. It works really well. And it feles mostly simpler to read than basic charms, but that might just be because they are mostly shorter.
                                The Martial Arts Charms are generally better-written than the Solar Charms. Steel Devil and Crane have issues, I guess, but the overall quality is still higher.

                                Originally posted by Oriares View Post
                                RE: Battle Visionary's Foresight


                                If I'm reading it right, the player writes down the two stratagems. If the opposing general uses one of them, they get the benefits of the charm and still have the other stratagem available. If the opponent chooses something the player hadn't selected, the player can turn in both chosen stratagems to counter it.
                                Yep.

                                Will rarely matter, though, unless you make a habit of going up against opponents with Solar War or similar. Most opponents use one strategy and that's it.

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