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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
    What's Celestial Ladder, and did that ever make it to draft form?

    It was completed and intended to be put into the core book, but later it was pulled out and replaced with Steel Devil, along with a promise that we would see Celestial Ladder style in a future release.

    The inspiration for that style was that one fight where Jackie Chan fought with a ladder:



    I admit, it never much intrigued me, as to my understanding it was about fighting with ladder - just a ladder - not actually fighting with improvised weapons in general. I would have been pretty stoked otherwise, but some people were very upset it wasn't published.
    Last edited by AnubisXy; 07-10-2016, 06:57 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
      What's Celestial Ladder, and did that ever make it to draft form?
      I think it was in outline form, but had to get replaced. Edit: Or listen to Anubis, he probably knows better.

      And... Well, it's about fighting and using a ladder. At first, I thought it was just a name and it was about using unconventional improvised weapons to Jackie Chan it up, when it was clarified that no, it's about using JUST a ladder.

      For more details you'll have to ask Vance.
      Last edited by Kyman201; 07-11-2016, 02:02 AM.


      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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      • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
        The secret of all Essence
        ​All Essence of a person who has gone that far down the path of that Martial Art, at least.

        Black Claw Style's final Charm making statements about all love and trust being lies and weaknesses isn't an objective and universal statement either.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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        • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
          The inspiration for that style was that one fight where Jackie Chan fought with a ladder:

          "Sasha, you shouldn't stand so close to the ring when there's a ladder match going on."

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          • Celestial Ladder was cut because it was conceived of as a weird style and an example of how esoteric MA could get, with the assumption that most of the other MA in the book would be fairly standardish. Then the backer styles included Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, Black Claw, et cetera, at which point Holden and John went "Yeah maybe we don't need another example weird and exoteric MA in the core; maybe we'd better go with another bread 'n butter style instead."

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            • Funny thing is, Steel Devil actually feels weirder and more esoteric than Black Claw or DPC to me. Even though I know it looks fairly normal to people in-setting, its mechanics are odd enough to make me think of it as one of the weird ones.

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              • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                I admit, it never much intrigued me, as to my understanding it was about fighting with ladder - just a ladder - not actually fighting with improvised weapons in general. I would have been pretty stoked otherwise, but some people were very upset it wasn't published.
                Yeah, if it had been a style focused on Improvised Weapons formalized into a sort of "World As Weapon Style", I'd have been all over that. I admit that when it was clarified that "No, not improvised weapons in general, JUST a ladder" I cooled considerably on it.

                When I thought it was some kind of Jackie Chan "Grab whatever is around you and kick someone's ass" style, I was more interested.


                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
                  Funny thing is, Steel Devil actually feels weirder and more esoteric than Black Claw or DPC to me. Even though I know it looks fairly normal to people in-setting, its mechanics are odd enough to make me think of it as one of the weird ones.
                  Hmmm... how do you feel about White Reaper style? Those two both stand out to me (as I'm going through Steel Devil now) as the weird ones, because they both involve adding something (halos or off-hand charge). White Reaper, even if it existed previously, will have had a serious mechanical change because of battle groups, and so the mechanics will be different.


                  A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                  Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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                  • Steel Devil Style
                    • Steel Devils use twin blades and are kind of dancy. Whirling dervish warrior archetype it is, then. But without the Sufi asceticism, I guess.
                    • Part of me feels a little let-down that there are two "devil" styles. But that's a minor irk.
                    • What are "paired" swords? Again, this is probably a term from the Panoply, but are they the same size etc? Dual wielding as I understand it tends to involve different-sized blades.
                    Naked Fang Draw
                    • Devil draws her blades and ends the fight before it starts.
                    • Supplements a JB roll, adding Essence or 2 (take greater) to the result. Can shift successes from the roll into her Offhand Charge. Gets one automatic point of Charge if she beats all opponents.
                    • What is this... oh, there's a conveniently placed sidebar. Hang on, THERE'S A CONVENIENTLY-PLACED SIDEBAR!? TRULY THIS IS AN AGE OF WONDERS!
                    What is the Offhand Charge? Sidebar
                    • Steel Devils can reflexively move initiative to their offhand when the character does damage, where it is stored as "charge", and can't be Withered away or used for Decisive attacks without particular charms. Moveable damage is generally limited to Essence + Dex.
                    • Does this ever empty? Nothing about it in the current charms implies so, which means that this style can just carry on winding up without winding down...
                    Double Attack Technique
                    • Devil feints this way and that, disorienting her opponent before the strike.
                    • Creates a withering attack that may create a second strike if the threshold successes beat the target's Defence. If both attacks land, a single damage roll is made. If this is successful, add a raw damage bonus of Dex + half charge. Dragon-blooded using this charm get a lower bonus.
                    Triple Attack Technique
                    • Steel Devil moves very fast and makes 3 attacks in quick succession.
                    • As with Double Attack Technique, successes from the second attack roll over to make a third. If the attack is successful, add Dex + Charge to the attack's base damage. Can trigger Steel Devil Strike and Empty Mind Strike, like Double Attach Technique. Dragon-blooded get a smaller increase in base damage, while those with Mastery reroll Essence-based non-successes on the damage roll.
                    • Double Attack Technique said nothing about triggering these charms... And I don't know what they are yet.
                    Steel Devil Strike
                    • The secret of this style is a strike that happens after Double Strike. Or, in other words, keep poking it until it dies.
                    • When Double (or, as it turns out, Triple) Attack Technique do more raw damage than the offhand charge capacity that is yet to be filled with charge. May then launch a decisive attack with Essence auto-successes, whcih ignore hardness, and uses initiative gained from Double Attack Technique's withering damage as base damage.Those with mastery gain willpower after damaging an opponent with this charm if they are in form.
                    Steel Devil Form
                    • Steel Devil stretches her blades out along her arms in readiness.
                    • Increases off-hand charge capacity by 2. Whenever she crashes an opponent her offhand charge capacity increases by 1 for the rest of the scene, but can't happen more than once per opponent. Steel Devil ignores off-hand penalties while attacking with this form. Reduces the cost of Double Attack Technique and Steel Devil Strike.
                    • Looking up off-hand penalties, it's never defined in itself. Ambidexterity defines it ("you may ignore the -1 off-hand penalty") as does Prehensile Tail ("the tail has a -1 offhand penalty"), but there is no just "this is the off-hand penalty" section).
                    Seconds Between Strife
                    • Blade hums and drives the Steel Devil towards her prey.
                    • Can pay a point of charge to add auto-successes to a Rush action. If it succeeds, they retain the spent charge.
                    • Ahhh, so you can cash in Charge for use in other charms. Cool.
                    Sonic Slash
                    • Steel Devil surges forward after using Seconds Between Strife.
                    • After using SBS, activate reflexively to make an attack that auto-hits all targets out to medium range ahead of the Steel Devil with a decisive attack that does damage equal to her current charge. Does not interact with the Exalt's current initiative at all, and does not reset her to base. Dragon-blooded using this charm only reach out to short range.
                    Dual-Slaying Stance
                    • This is the passive version of the Steel Devil form, that is still frightening.
                    • While in this stance, Parry is increased by 2, can't fall below 2. May forgo her attack to react to any attack she tries to parry with a decisive counterattack, which has base damage equal to her current charge. May pump additional initiative into this if desired. If damage is done, she doesn't return to base initiative, and retains her charge. Also ignores off-hand penalties. Dragon-blooded using this style are limited to Essence-based initiative boosts.
                    • Hang on, if you've got 2 weapons with this style and you can't flurry attacks, when would you ever strike with your off-hand using this style?
                    Twin-Blade Defence
                    • Steel Devil parries stuff away with her off-hand.
                    • After a failed parry attempt, pay 3 motes and convert a point of charge into a second parry at a one-for-one rate to counter the attack's remaining successes. She can totally nullify an attack in this way, and if she does so with at least 3 charge points remaining, she executes a Move called the Cross-Blade Catch, which is a recognised Move, but has no mechanical effects whatsoever.
                    Iron Lotus Unfurling
                    • No flavour text.
                    • After doing a Cross-Blade Catch, pay motes and willpower to disarm an opponent and throw the weapon 2 range bands. Treated as a disarm gambit with double 9s on the initiative roll. If successful, may pay motes to reflexively unleash Sonic Slash, adding 2 successes to the attack roll and Essence-based damage to the attack's base damage. Must know Sonic Slash to use this attack.
                    Empty Mind Strike
                    • No flavour text
                    • When damage done by Double Attack Technique is equal or greater than the remaining offhand charge capacity, pay charge to boost a decisive attack. If all charge is spent in this way, gain Essence-based bonus damage dice. May activate this charm after using Steel Devil Strike that does at least half her current charge in damage.
                    • Hmmm... I can see players micromanaging their charge excessively for things like this. I guess that's the intent?
                    Dervish Blade Frenzy
                    • Martial artist pauses for a second of serenity before letting loose another attack. Flavour-crunch blur.
                    • May use after successful SDS followed by EMS. Add a point of off-hand charge and hit the same target with Triple Attack Technique, whether or not it has been learned. If TAT has been learned, she may strike with a quadruple attack, which uses TAT's damage bonus and adds automatic successes to the post-soak damage roll.
                    • Boy, this style is all about the onslaught penalties.
                    Whirling Guillotine Dance
                    • Steel Devil goes into special stance, seeing the angle of attacks that haven't been launched yet, and every point of weakness.
                    • Combines both Steel Devil Form and Dual-Slaying Stance. Those with mastery may reflexively enter this stance after crashing someone with a multi-attack charm, gaining one point of charge and Off-hand Charge Capacity.
                    And that's it for Martial Arts! I will be taking a few days' break from this now, as I have a story to prep for. Plans for the first session in Jibei include a festival which includes a martial arts tourney & weapon-crafting festival, as a way of introducing the mechanics. Any suggestions on how to include tasks for the 2 Night Castes I have would be helpful. There'll be sneaking around to uncover the political stuff I've got going on, but that's all I've got so far.
                    Last edited by Xerxes; 07-11-2016, 03:30 AM. Reason: Only two spacing problems this time! Things are looking up!


                    A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                    Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                      White Reaper, even if it existed previously, will have had a serious mechanical change because of battle groups, and so the mechanics will be different.
                      White Reaper in 2E was all about fighting multiple foes, there just weren't any Battlegroups back then. And this was when Multiattack charms were everywhere, so you had things like "Make [Halos] + 1 attacks at your full dice pool"

                      As for 'Paired Swords', I would personally rule that it's two swords of the same kind, one in each hand.

                      So two short swords, two long swords, two hook swords... If they're swords, can be wielded in one hand, and match, then you can use Steel Devil with them.

                      I've had this pointed out to me that if you use twin hook swords, you can actually combine Steel Devil Style with Snake Style.


                      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                      • It seems sensible to me that they would have to be the same. Part of the point of requiring paired swords is that it's actually a limitation of the style. If you could use any two similarly sized swords, the style has more utility in that your weapons can cater to different situations, and it's good enough already.

                        As an interesting aside, the topic says that Totentanz was the last to post, with kyman's picture. I was confused.

                        EDIT: Apparently we're all Totentanz. I'm now last to psot, but apparently i'm still totentanz, with my picture.


                        This post was made in a factory where hyperbole and sarcasm are handled.

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                        • Yeah, the forum occasionally glitches like that. Have you really not encountered that before?

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                          • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                            Hmmm... how do you feel about White Reaper style? Those two both stand out to me (as I'm going through Steel Devil now) as the weird ones, because they both involve adding something (halos or off-hand charge). White Reaper, even if it existed previously, will have had a serious mechanical change because of battle groups, and so the mechanics will be different.
                            It feels a bit unusual to me, but not really strange. About equal to Silver-Voiced Nightingale.

                            Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                            What are "paired" swords? Again, this is probably a term from the Panoply, but are they the same size etc? Dual wielding as I understand it tends to involve different-sized blades.
                            Pretty sure it means two identical swords.

                            Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                            Plans for the first session in Jibei include a festival which includes a martial arts tourney & weapon-crafting festival, as a way of introducing the mechanics. Any suggestions on how to include tasks for the 2 Night Castes I have would be helpful. There'll be sneaking around to uncover the political stuff I've got going on, but that's all I've got so far.
                            The festival is an absolutely amazing place for pickpockets and con men. Nights are well equipped to participate in and defend against such shenanigans.

                            Races might be good for Nights with Athletics and Ride, too.

                            PS: Did you ever read my Craft rewrite?

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                            • My experience with Nights is that every one I've seen has been hugely invested in at least one of Athletics and Stealth, so when I want to engage them, I make something really obviously hard to get into. Say, a magical flying palanquin with guard standing atop it, or an unknown being (prisoner? dignitary?) being transported in a block of seemingly-solid metal - or, in a pinch, just an angry Dragon-Blood screaming that nobody better go in this building or else before stationing guards around it and entering alone as it bursts into flame. The Night will, inevitably, want to prove they can bypass such obstacles, and will become invested in the mystery (and any hook it leads to) in the process.

                              The issue is then the classic problem of running an Exalted session: how do you have other PCs, less capable at gaining entry to absurd places, on the scene. Having multiple Nights may help you there, but (especially in the first session), it's usually doable to have other PCs take other routes, talking, fighting, or (very sparingly) being captured to be on the scene... but with NPCs aware of the other player and unaware of the Night - which usually makes both players pretty happy, since gloating about how NPCs don't even know they're around is often what people play Nights to do.


                              "For me, there's no fundamental conflict between really loving something and also seeing it as very profoundly flawed." -- Jay Eddidin

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                              • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
                                The festival is an absolutely amazing place for pickpockets and con men. Nights are well equipped to participate in and defend against such shenanigans.

                                Races might be good for Nights with Athletics and Ride, too.

                                PS: Did you ever read my Craft rewrite?
                                I feel dumb as all hell for not realising this...

                                I've gone over the crafting system that you put up, although not in any great detail. I like the "not advancing everything at once" tweaks, and the total ditching of slots. I've not yet looked at the charms, however. Will go over them with a fine-toothed comb soon, I promise.


                                A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                                Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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