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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

    I think that was an example of how it works, yeah. Like, there's tons of people in Creation who read the stars, but it takes a rare person who can interpret what they foretell accurately.
    And another important part of this is, again, much like in real life, it's probably impossible to tell that these people DON'T see the future anyway beyond the general possibility of being wrong.

    The non-thaumaturge tea leaf reader doesn't have to be a huckster or a fraud. He might very well believe that what he's doing is real/genuinely works. Occult traditions be like that, and it's not as if there's a whole lot of thaumaturges running around saying "NO ONLY I READ TEA LEAVES FOR REAL!"


    I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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    • True enough. The grammar and contextual pedant inme is probably too hyperactive at the moment.


      A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
      Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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      • Originally posted by Totentanz View Post


        That seems reasonable, but ill-considered. 1E was a great book, but it wasn't the platonic ideal of a RPG. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about what amounts to its third rewrite. In this case, I doubt excluding 3CD examples from the text makes much immediate difference, but our core splat can summon them. How long do we need to wait before the official system is going to support us actually doing that?
        I'm all for an eventual full write-up for a Third Circle Demon, but I can how they're a low priority when characters need to be Essence 5 to summon them.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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        • They're still higher-priority than most of the things that players can't summon at all.

          Especially since that end of the power scale could really use some examples...I'm not really sure how to write opponents for a Dawn who can kill a team consisting of Octavian, Ahlat, Mara, Sigereth, and Alveua in one round.

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          • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
            They're still higher-priority than most of the things that players can't summon at all.

            Especially since that end of the power scale could really use some examples...I'm not really sure how to write opponents for a Dawn who can kill a team consisting of Octavian, Ahlat, Mara, Sigereth, and Alveua in one round.
            ... I'm going to regret this but...

            How the everloving FUCK?!


            Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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            • Essence 5 Solar with Dexterity 5, Strength 5, Melee 5 (with specialty), Occult 5, and Athletics 3+.

              Increasing Strength Exercise to get 10 Strength and +5 damage on each decisive attack. Spirit-Slaying Stance for +5 dice on each attack roll. Immortal Blade Triumphant for stunt bonuses to damage rolls and five damage dice converted to successes.

              Activate Iron Whirlwind Attack enhanced with a one-point stunt, Excellent Strike, Fire And Stones Strike, Ghost-Eating Technique, and Armour-Eating Strike. Make 10 attacks, each with 18 dice and one free success and disappearing 1s. If you don't spend any Initiative on them, successful attacks inflict 3 + extra successes (up to 5) dice of damage and 5 automatic levels of damage. All aggravated. If you do spend Initiative on them, they do that many additional dice. Hardness is irrelevant, and you get a bunch of motes back from GET.

              Then use Peony Blossom Attack to throw another Iron Whirlwind Attack.

              The set-up's a pain, it costs willpower, and it's not guaranteed to kill them all immediately. But even if some of them survive, there's no way you're gonna lose that fight. Once you get your scene-longs up, you can cut down second circles like grass.

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              • I don't think Increasing Strength Exercise should grant extra attacks to either the Melee or Brawl flurries for many reasons - not the least of which it creates a situation where can be two Solars of equal combat investment, and the dude with (ISE + close combat flurry that grants attacks equal to strength) is VASTLY more powerful when fluff wise they shouldn't be. Its harmful to the game.

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                • But you're also referring to an Essence 5 Dawn - which is a big deal in 3rd edition - specialized to fight Spirits with strong occult investment. I don't think you should level scale enemies to fight him.

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                  • Yeah, ISE needs fixing. (Gestures vaguely in the direction of the BlueWinds rewrite).

                    But even if that specific example is excessive, you still need something stronger than the corebook offers to challenge experienced Dawns and combat-capable Circles. 3CD stats would be a great place to show us ways to make super-monsters that can take on an entire Circle of not-un-optimized Essence 3 Solars.

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                    • In 1e, Grawbowski said that most 3CDs are as strong or slightly stronger than Ahlat (With Fetiches being signicantly stronger). I do not know if that is the case in 3e, but it seems reasonable. Ahlat is much stronger than Octavian mechanically; yes, I know the devs tweeted a while back about Oct nearly beating Ahlat in a test fight. As far as 2nd Circles go, Octavian is an outlier and massively stronger than any other corebook 2nd circle.

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                      • I do agree that more high level antagonists would be great, and I'm really hoping for a 3e version of Creatures of the Wyld

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                        • Antagonists

                          And so we begin the adversaries stuff! Unlike with charms and spells, I won't go through adversary-by-adversary I don't think, unless they have enough abilities to warrant it, as I don't have enough of a system head to get a bar on how competitive or not a particular stat-line is just by reading it. This may happen for some of the more complicated ones with a lot of content, but we'll see how it goes.

                          Note that I have been through part of this chapter already, when I pulled together the reference sheets in the other thread in my sig. I have notes of my first reactions though, so hopefully the newness won't be too compromised. But it's worth bearing that impression in mind.

                          Intro Fiction
                          • Yay, storytime again! I've been genuinely missing these, what with the long chapters.
                          • Interesting mind-reading section of the machinations of an Abyssal. It's good writing, but why did the character have to think something "deliciously evil"? Does anyone who's not a cardboard cut-out think of themselves as evil?
                          • The musing on the nature of Mask of Winters is kind of interesting, gives a few thoughts about the nature of the Deathlord for people to chew on.
                          • The two paragraphs are the best of the piece. Beautifully elevated above any concern about the pain and suffering he's inflicting, he just wants to be appreciated and get on with his work.
                          Quick Characters
                          • This is a system designed for minor characters, apparently.
                          • However, a quick flip ahead (because I'm curious about how major characters are done) reveals that there are no non-QC NPCs in the book. Was there a reason for this?
                          • In the absence of any fully-created characters, I will probably use the QC system for most NPCs at this point. Given the lack of full splats, any non-mortal, non-Solar characters have to be built this way. Will have to wait and see if the powers listed relate to attributes or dice pools to allow fuller characters to be built out of these frameworks.
                          Traits
                          • Essence, Willpower, Join Battle, and Health Track all given.
                          • The gradation of Essence is helpful, making it more than "match the PCs" type things.
                          • The systems for the other attributes are apparently explained elsewhere. This is fine, but does leave me wondering why they're discussed here, apart from just to say "this trait exists".
                          Dice Pool
                          • QCs get dice pools for specific actions, not Attributes or Abilities, under actions that they are likely to take in the game. This all makes good sense.
                          • General table outlining broad competence in each area. If in doubt, make a roll on 3 dice. This is very clear and well-written, giving good benchmarks. Although part of me does wonder if a "challenge rating" might be more appropriate, given that Exalts are often far above mortal capabilities. That is "X dice pool should challenge a mortal, Y should challenge a non-specialised Exalt, Z should challenge a specialised Exalt". There is a slight nod to this in some of the text, but it's not entirely clear whether this is a descriptor of competence or a description of who they should be able to challenge with these pools. Probably both and I'm being thick/too picky, as ever.
                          • Social action fixed values are also gone over, a bit more briefly. Apparently 5+ is the peak of competence here.
                          • These difficulty levels seem to scale with the difficulties as presented in the systems chapter, but I'm not sure I agree with the systems chapter. Difficulty 2-3 should be passable for most characters in my experience, rather than the base difficulty being 1. But that may just be my impressions being fuzzy.
                          Combat Actions
                          • Combat dice pools are the same regardless of attack type.
                          • Nice summary of weapon types given here. Would have been nice to have a page ref for tags rather than just a chapter ref, but that's a minor gripe.
                          • So you need to add Strength (which the character doesn't actually have) to the value presented in the QC stats? That's just plain awkward to remember.
                          • More helpful tables describing Parry, Evasion, Soak and Hardness.
                          Powers
                          • Powers will be listed alongside each individual antagonist.
                          • These will be simplified versions of any powers, aiming at general ballpark values rather than precise systems. This is great for minor characters, but what about for ones we want to fully develop?
                          • Essence-spending will be addressed later.
                          That's it for general systems for QCs - lots of helpful tables and build advice. Could be a bit more detailed in places, but that may just be my preference rather than a problem. A good solid chapter so far, apart form the disappointing lack of non-QC build stuff.

                          On to Mortal Antagonists next. As said, I (probably) won't be doing a detailed evaluation of each one, but more some discussion over the general types and powers etc.
                          Last edited by Xerxes; 07-24-2016, 05:05 AM. Reason: S P A C I NG


                          A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                          Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

                          Comment


                          • For some reason I can't add in the new section to the TOC at the beginning of this thread, but it's showing up fine when I hit edit. Is there some sort of display limit thing?


                            A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                            Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
                              They're still higher-priority than most of the things that players can't summon at all.
                              ​Are those things that exist in Creation more casually without being summoned?

                              Ahlat and Fakharu are in the world, so they take higher priority than beings that are not in the world until a character who has been in a game of about forty sessions calls them.

                              I think much the same applies to challenges for such a character.



                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                              • Yeah, I'm not a fan of the fact that they only included QCs in the book.

                                I assume it's because the rules for the other splats simply aren't finalized yet, so they didn't want to include information that would quickly become outdated. The most obvious evidence of this is that the Sidereal excellency rules they give in this chapter are broken as fuck (they get roughly the same amount of average successes on a roll by spending 3m as a Solar gets by spending 10m) since they were ported directly from 2e without considering the different environment of 3e.

                                That doesn't explain why Ahlat, Fakharu, and the couple of Second Circle Demons they presented are QCs though. I assume it was to save space.

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