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A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3

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  • Yeah, like I said, it's pretty abstract.

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    • Mortal Armour
      • Helpful refresh on what armours represent, along with the armour-as-category bands.
      • Donning armour calculations make sense. and wasn't something I usually think about in the context of a roleplaying game.
      Light Armour


      Breastplate
      • This feels weird that it's light armour, but hey.
      • Also, it's very location-specific; if it hits anywhere but on the front of your torso, this may as well be nil. It feels odd that this is "averages" to light armour.
      Buff Jacket
      • This makes sense.
      Chain Shirt
      • Possibly the most useful of the light armours, from a system perspective.
      • I don't get why the breastplate is "more protection than a chain shirt" in the description, but isn't actually more so in system terms.
      Medium Armour


      Hauberk
      • Description makes sense.
      • Where are all the tags? I'd expect more, to add more differentiation.
      Lamellar
      • So THAT'S what lamellar is!
      Reinforced Breastplate
      • Ah, we have a fuller version of "breastplate" now. I guess that works.
      • I imagine that realising that all these are functionally the same would be a pain in character creation. I didn't actually notice it on a first read-through because the descriptions were good enough to distract me, but I imagine it would be mildly confusing if building a character with armour.
      Reinforced Buff Jacket
      • An upgrade to the standard buff jacket.
      • And a tag! But why doesn't the lighter, more mobile, and thus presumably quieter, buff jacket get the silent tag. Houseruled!
      Heavy Armour


      Articulated Plate
      • This kind of armour makes a lot of sense - hinges on armour would make life so much easier, and isn't something that fantasy games usually consider.
      • This provides superior protection and manoeuvrability to plate-and-chain... which has exactly the same stats. So how is this actually superior in any meaningful way?
      Plate-and-Chain
      • The best armour that's easy to make. And probably what most people think of when they think "plate armour".
      Tags
      • These all start "most armour is not this, but some is". The wording feels awkward.
      • They are nice and obvious in meaning for the most part.
      • There are very few of these. Given the variety of weapon tags (particularly types of damage) I would have expected some tags to represent either bonuses or penalties against certain kinds of damage.
      This section shows up the weaknesses of the tag-based system quite a bit. There's not enough differentiation between armour types here. I may have to cook up some custom tags to attach to the different armour types just to keep myself happy on that score. That said, the actual descriptions feel like they go beyond what most fantasy rpgs do when talking about armour, which gives a nice appreciation for those differences (bear in mind I haven't read D&D in decades, though).


      And that's it for armour. The meaty stuff begins now, with Artefacts!


      A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
      Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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      • Artefacts
        • Artefacts were never common, even in the First Age. That's good to know, sets a proper benchmark for rarity.
        • Typo: "Many others artifacts"
        • Very many manys in this first paragraph.Makes for awkward reading
        • The overall tone of this first paragraph conveys the impression of "we want to impose this particular view of artefacts, but also want to leave plenty of room for every kind of exception". Take a stance and stick to it, book!
        Artefact Weapons
        • Another nice summary of all the weapon stats, although potentially reiterating some. I guess it's warranted for a very reference-y section, though.
        • Is there any point in having Attunement as a discrete stat if it's always 5?
        Attunement
        • So... what does this actually do? Yes, can make some things lighter, but what does that mean in system terms? Is it is a cost to pay to use artefact weapons? The rules don't actually say that.
        • Also, what happens when someone tries to use it without attuning? What sort of penalties do they get? Again, no guidance at all.
        So much for the general, and on to the particular. Artefact Melee Weapons next.



        A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
        Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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        • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
          [/LIST]Attunement
          • So... what does this actually do? Yes, can make some things lighter, but what does that mean in system terms? Is it is a cost to pay to use artefact weapons? The rules don't actually say that.
          • Also, what happens when someone tries to use it without attuning? What sort of penalties do they get? Again, no guidance at all.
          So much for the general, and on to the particular. Artefact Melee Weapons next.
          I would like to direct your attention to the paragraph directly above that, also labelled "attunement".

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          • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
            • Also, what happens when someone tries to use it without attuning? What sort of penalties do they get? Again, no guidance at all.
            Actually, there IS a very specific guide in the core on page 594. You should have seen it before getting to the descriptions of the Artifact Weapons.

            Without this commitment, subtract -5 from the weapon’s Accuracy and its Defense, and lose two Initiative per attempted attack or defense. These penalties can only be negated by attunement.
            So yeah, if you don't take the required "a few heartbeats" to Attune to the weapon, then OUCH.

            Assuming that we have a Solar with Dexterity 5 and Melee 5, with a regular Daiklave (medium artifact weapon, +3 accuracy, +12 damage, and +1 defense)...

            Attuned, that's 13 dice to hit with a sword attack, before use of an Excellency, assuming that it's Attuned. And that's probably about... 6 Parry, from the Defense and the Dex + Melee.

            But if you're UNattuned, then the Daiklave's accuracy is 5 points lower, as is the defense. So our Daiklave's net stats become -2 Accuracy, +12 damage, and -4 defense.

            So if you don't Attune to this Daiklave, that's like... 8 dice to hit, before an Excellency. And 1 parry.

            Because Artifact weapons are made of the strongest, but heaviest and bulkiest metals. But by attuning them to your Essence, they resonate and become a part of you, making them feel lighter and easier in your hands, negating the penalties.

            Is there any point in having Attunement as a discrete stat if it's always 5?
            Spoiler From The Future: Not every artifact has an Attunement of 5.


            Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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            • I also headcanon that attunement is what allows powerbows to bend at all, and without it they're just a bow-shaped chunk of metal.

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              • Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                it's very location-specific; if it hits anywhere but on the front of your torso, this may as well be nil.
                ​Just like a Kevlar vest.

                Do you know why there are Kevlar vests but not so much Kevlar trousers and sleeves?

                It is because the torso presents to biggest target on the body, and so tends to warrant the most immediate protection, both in terms of being the thing with the largest probability of being struck, and the part that most people will be inclined to strike for, even if only instinctually.

                In any case, soak probably already needs to be a bit abstract in its representation of how it actually reduces damage, given that there isn't really an option to avoid soak to targeting unarmoured sections or spots between armour. I'd say the penalty to damage rolls is somewhere between representing the contortions necessary to actually connect the weapon with a body part and the armour acting as a barrier to absorb some of the force of a blow.

                Originally posted by Elfive
                I also headcanon that attunement is what allows powerbows to bend at all
                That was actually how they were described in at least Second Edition (I cannot remember for First). Although the idea for powerbows was that they were a magical material allow bonded to special woods and horn and things.

                There was also an idea to try and represent some of the significance of strength as a factor in giving energy to the bow, both in terms of a minimum Strength to bend them, and a maximum Strength to add to damage rolls to represent the limit to amount of tension the bow could actually store. Part of the idea of powerbows was that they waived both of these details; they would easily bend in the hands of a weak person and had no limit to how much energy they could store from somebody's draw strength (in addition to how the bow itself lent some extra energy to the force of an arrow). The former detail meant that powerbows actually represented an Artifact weapon that would be useable by people who were incapable of operating a mortal version.

                It's a level of simulation I think the game was right to excise (not least because I'm fairly sure that most people overlooked or ignored it anyway), but I still like it as a premise for what the mechanism of the powerbow was.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                • Also bear in mind that soak only affects withering attacks. I.E, glancing blows that just miss or clang off armour. If you get through the gaps and actually do damage, that was a decisive strike, and the lack of protection from the armour is factored in there.

                  Of course, this is a bit more complicated with artifact armour and hardness, but I generally assume how much of you artifact armour covers has only a tangential relation to how much it actually protects you. Bare thighs are not an issue for orichalcum.

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                  • Originally posted by Elfive View Post

                    Of course, this is a bit more complicated with artifact armour and hardness, but I generally assume how much of you artifact armour covers has only a tangential relation to how much it actually protects you.
                    ​Then why does armour with better protection cover more?


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                      • And a tag! But why doesn't the lighter, more mobile, and thus presumably quieter, buff jacket get the silent tag. Houseruled!
                      Because the silent tag removes the movement penalty from applying to silent movement, and a normal buff jacket has a movement penalty of 0, so this tag would do literally nothing.


                      Some of me humble homebrew for ex3:
                      Artifacts for Crumple's DB homebrew
                      Some Lintha QCs
                      A Wyld Behemoth

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                      • Mortal armor being several shades of screwed up is annoying.

                        There are three different types of Medium armor, a (chain) Hauberk, Lamellar, and a Reinforced Breastplate, that are all exactly the same. Same cost, same protection, same Tags (that is, none).

                        Why is wordcount being wasted on them, again?

                        In "reality", lamellar would likely be cheaper, significantly so, than mail, as any village blacksmith can hammer out some sheet metal and tie the plates together. On the other hand, it would take a lot of metal. Mail, on the other hand, would take a lot more time and labor to make, but take less expensive metal........ so they would pretty much even out cost-wise. Both offered similar degrees of protection from slashing and stabbing blows, arrows, and blunt force.

                        I just don't see why they are in the book, to be honest. Just call it "medium armor" and describe it as chain, lamellar, or a backed-up breastplate.
                        Last edited by Boston123; 09-04-2016, 08:51 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Boston123 View Post

                          I just don't see why they are in the book, to be honest. Just call it "medium armor" and describe it as chain, lamellar, or a backed-up breastplate.
                          That's more or less exactly what they did, except they described them so people knew what they were.

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                          • Originally posted by Boston123 View Post
                            Why is wordcount being wasted on them, again?
                            Maybe so you don't need to google what "lamellar" means, or try to imagine what distinguishes medium armor from light/heavy armor. I'll admit I also think the medium sets could use some tags, but I can see the value in their descriptions at least.


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                            • There are other considerations too. A buff jacket will keep you warmer than a chain shirt, for example. There's cultural differences too. Creation is an entire planet, and you're allowed to set a story anywhere on it. You can't have everyone using exactly the same types of armour, so details like how lamellar is more common in places like Lookshy than the Realm are important.

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                              • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                                There are other considerations too. A buff jacket will keep you warmer than a chain shirt, for example. There's cultural differences too. Creation is an entire planet, and you're allowed to set a story anywhere on it. You can't have everyone using exactly the same types of armour, so details like how lamellar is more common in places like Lookshy than the Realm are important.

                                No, a buff jacket will not necessarily be warmer than a chain shirt.

                                Guess what? Chain shirts exist, they are called byrnies, or brynja. They weren't worn against the skin, for the same reason that any other armor wasn't worn against the skin: flexible metal armor worn against the skin will do jack-all to actually protect you, plus it will be super-uncomfortable.

                                Beneath a byrnie, you will be wearing some sort of padding, usually some sort of quilted jacket, aka a buff coat/gambeson.

                                Plus, mail, no matter how small of an area it covers, isn't going to be silent. You can't sneak around with a mail byrnie and not have it jangle, at least not while wearing it under "regular" clothing. Wearing it under clothing, or sewn between two layers of cloth ("concealing" it), will be ...... pretty obvious. It is going to be bulky. Finally, the whole ensemble is going to stink.

                                Of course, this is the same group that thinks a self bow is 3 feet long, or that polearms lack spearheads, so reasonably-accurate descriptions of weapons and armor is out of the picture, I guess.
                                Last edited by Boston123; 09-04-2016, 09:27 AM.

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