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EXALTED RETURNS - The Solar "Backer Charm" PDF

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  • Originally posted by Molez View Post

    For you, maybe. But let's not go around stating it like a matter of fact, for some of us it did.
    Oooh yes, it very much did

    New favorite system of my group!

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    • Originally posted by JayTee View Post
      3e did not live up to the hype, so my willingness to buy in to hype once again has been... tempered. I remain cautiously skeptical.
      I don't really get the "not lived up to the hype" complaint considering the 3E core delivers exactly what the writers said it would. If you don't like what they aimed to do that's a matter of taste not quality since it does successfully do the things they said they were aiming to do.


      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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      • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
        "Find out how many Survival charms Vance designed just for puppies"

        Well if they can be adapted for kittens and baby ducks, then that works too

        Kyman, you need to brush up on your Vancisms! Just because your puppy has fluffy yellow feathers or meows instead of barking doesn't invalidate it's puppyness!

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        • Originally posted by Wandering View Post
          Kyman, you need to brush up on your Vancisms! Just because your puppy has fluffy yellow feathers or meows instead of barking doesn't invalidate it's puppyness!
          *Gasps* I can use the new Survival Charms to empower my Scaly Puppy!



          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

            *Gasps* I can use the new Survival Charms to empower my Scaly Puppy!

            good dog <3


            Currently Writing: Arms of the Chosen, Dragon-Blooded: What Fire Has Wrought, Scion: Hero

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            • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

              *Gasps* I can use the new Survival Charms to empower my Scaly Puppy!

              Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

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              • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                good dog <3
                Best Friend.


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                • Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

                  *Gasps* I can use the new Survival Charms to empower my Scaly Puppy!

                  Oh my dear god what a cute li'l spaghetti.

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                  • Originally posted by Senara View Post
                    Oh my dear god what a cute li'l spaghetti.
                    Snakes are freaking adorable man!


                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                    • Originally posted by Molez View Post
                      For you, maybe. But let's not go around stating it like a matter of fact, for some of us it did.
                      I can appreciate and respect that some people enjoy 3e. In the same way, I can appreciate and respect that some people enjoy eating at, say, Applebee's. Enjoying a mediocre product however, does not stop it from being mediocre.


                      Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                      I don't really get the "not lived up to the hype" complaint considering the 3E core delivers exactly what the writers said it would. If you don't like what they aimed to do that's a matter of taste not quality since it does successfully do the things they said they were aiming to do.
                      I suppose you're right. Maybe I'm holding the Devs to too high a standard.

                      Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to adhere to the standards they had set for themselves with their earlier work in 2.5e.

                      Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to write charms that are flavorful and evocative, that wow me as a player and fire my imagination, as opposed to simple dice tricks.

                      Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to write tight, clean and concise rules that ease the burden on the GM and facilitate ease of play.

                      Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to remove a problematic mechanic that has been known since the early days of 2e (Bonus Points) now that we have a whole new edition.

                      Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to, after almost 4 years, have examined the implications such charms as God-King's Shrike, Duel Magnus Prana, or Celestial Bliss Trick.

                      Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows. I'm sure it's all subjective anyway, and that quality is just an empty word with no meaning.

                      Maybe.
                      Last edited by JayTee; 04-29-2016, 11:59 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by JayTee View Post
                        I can appreciate and respect that some people enjoy 3e. In the same way, I can appreciate and respect that some people enjoy eating at, say, Applebee's. Enjoying a mediocre product however, does not stop it from being mediocre.
                        That's really not at all a fair comparison. That you don't care for it doesn't make it mediocre. The devs pretty clearly had a solid creative vision for this edition that they executed on. That makes them something very different than the Applebee's of TTRPGs. You don't have to like what they made, but come on, man.



                        Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to adhere to the standards they had set for themselves with their earlier work in 2.5e.
                        Okay, these are internal attributions that you have no way of knowing anything about. I cannot claim to say what standards they were using, but given what I have seen of John and Holden, I am inclined to believe it's pretty high.

                        Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to write charms that are flavorful and evocative, that wow me as a player and fire my imagination, as opposed to simple dice tricks.
                        Taste again, but I vehemently disagree. I think the broad spread of the charms are cool and evocative, and that in my play experience these tricks enhance feel of play at my table. May not be for you, again, taste is subjective.


                        Maybe I'm wrong for expecting them to, after almost 4 years, have examined the implications such charms as God-King's Shrike, Duel Magnus Prana, or Celestial Bliss Trick.
                        You mean powers where the essential problem comes down to table-level conduct which amounts to don't be a dick with the powers at your disposal in a game where one of the guiding principles explicitly spelled out in the rules is pretty much don't be a destructive dick?

                        I can understand that people have frustrations with the game, the system and the devs. I can see how the language of the book, the tone that is presented in places, the spread of charms and their mechanics can frustrate people. That some people take issue with something does not make it of lessened quality. I am also, quite frankly tired of people uncharitibly interpreting both the rules text and the words of the devs at every turn. I'm not specifically accusing you of this, JayTee, but I see it happen a lot and it pushes me away from the community.


                        Pronounced "Monkey Pie"

                        Find my actual play content here!

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                        • Powerful and balanced can and do live together, especially in the Solar Charm set. Trust me, I'm a doctor!

                          (Writing the Medicine tree is kind of like being a doctor, right?)


                          Exalted Developer
                          Currently writing: The Realm and Dragon-Blooded: What Fire Has Wrought
                          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/hatewheel/
                          If you like the work I am doing, please consider supporting my ability to work: https://www.patreon.com/emptyset?ty=h

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                          • Originally posted by John Mørke View Post
                            (Writing the Medicine tree is kind of like being a doctor, right?)
                            Close enough for government work.

                            (makes Bureaucracy check)


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                            • Originally posted by JayTee View Post
                              Maybe.
                              Certainly.

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                              • Originally posted by Monkipi View Post
                                That's really not at all a fair comparison. That you don't care for it doesn't make it mediocre. The devs pretty clearly had a solid creative vision for this edition that they executed on. That makes them something very different than the Applebee's of TTRPGs. You don't have to like what they made, but come on, man.
                                I was expecting Gordon Ramsy, and instead I got Chef Joe. How else was I supposed to feel about all this?


                                Originally posted by Monkipi View Post
                                Okay, these are internal attributions that you have no way of knowing anything about. I cannot claim to say what standards they were using, but given what I have seen of John and Holden, I am inclined to believe it's pretty high.

                                Taste again, but I vehemently disagree. I think the broad spread of the charms are cool and evocative, and that in my play experience these tricks enhance feel of play at my table. May not be for you, again, taste is subjective.
                                With 2e, they were working within the bounds of a broken system and still managed to produce content that was flavorful and engaging, and helped me get through a lot of the mechanical slog of 2e because of how amazing it was. With the opportunity to write the bounds of the new system, I expected this to continue. It didn't. Instead they contributed to the mechanical slog

                                Originally posted by Monkipi View Post
                                You mean powers where the essential problem comes down to table-level conduct which amounts to don't be a dick with the powers at your disposal in a game where one of the guiding principles explicitly spelled out in the rules is pretty much don't be a destructive dick?
                                With all due respect (and I mean that genuinely as opposed to sarcastically) I believe you are making the Oberoni Fallacy, so you'll have to forgive me if I... dismiss? (there needs to be a nicer word for that) this claim.

                                Originally posted by Monkipi View Post
                                I can understand that people have frustrations with the game, the system and the devs. I can see how the language of the book, the tone that is presented in places, the spread of charms and their mechanics can frustrate people. That some people take issue with something does not make it of lessened quality. I am also, quite frankly tired of people uncharitibly interpreting both the rules text and the words of the devs at every turn. I'm not specifically accusing you of this, JayTee, but I see it happen a lot and it pushes me away from the community.
                                First off, props and respect for keeping this impersonal with your last sentence. Better than I did with Molez and Glamourweaver (My bad to each of you, I got cross and let it get the best of me).

                                More on point, sadly there isn't much room for interpretation. The text of the charms are right there in the book. Much of it is unclear, which in turn hurts speed of play, which in turn make the game less ideal than it could have been. I'm not asking for perfection, but I am asking for a level of quality that I have been given previously. I don't think this is unreasonable.

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