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  • Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post

    It's like a sai with the Bashing and Smashing tags instead of the Lethal tag, or a cestus with Disarming instead of Worn. I don't think it's too far out of bounds on tags.

    Still, the smashing tag isn't important to the style, I just thought that a solid metal rod should be at least as good at smashing as a club. I'll remove it.
    That makes all the different imo. Honestly, I forgot that there was a light weapon with the Smashing keyword. The problem is that not every tag is equal and Smashing has been proven to be a rather strong one, making it hard to balance with other things. It's possible it's perfectly balanced and I'm just being obtuse, but it made me nervous based on my experience so I think it's a good idea.

    Otherwise, it's a very very cool style.


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    • Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post
      Feedback time!

      - The Voice of Justice is word-for-word the same effect as the Earth-aspected Presence Charm of the same name. *checks Presence* Oh, apparently you removed the original. Sneaky.
      - The Strength of Order's keywords were being rewritten as I read it, even though I was so ready to complain about it being Dual. Anyway, 3m for a conditional +4 raw damage boost is not a super great deal, but I guess I can live with it. Should probably have Mastery though, because this effect is definitely not Solar-tier (FoIT lets you ignore the same amount of soak unconditionally for 1m). Maybe add post-soak damage with Mastery.
      - I believe the correct technical term is "Profile Character action". Otherwise, Steel-Taloned Mospid Form looks okay, albeit as a personal preference, I'd get rid of the baseline withering damage boost to really make it focused on its core theme.
      - Quell the Raging Dragon is a good implementation of a Clash charm that is in line with the style's core mechanical identity.
      - Ring the Morning Bell is a variant on Ox-Stunning Blow that is hard to judge against the similar Solar Charm. It's ever-so-slightly cheaper but it's Supplemental instead of Simple (this might open up some interesting combo potential if there's ever an unarmed MA that lets you make multiple withering attacks), lasts for a maximum of three turns instead of "practically Indefinitely with Falling Hammer Strike", doesn't penalize Defense, and the penalty is hard-capped at 5 (and even 5 requires heavy investment in a subpar Attribute). Seems reasonable.
      - Kiss the Steel Prince looks okay. It's reasonably priced against Solar Counterattack, especially with the restrictions on its usage.
      - Swooping Raptor Dance is a thematically very good Charm. It protects you from the downsides of being in a grapple while giving a specific grappling-related benefit that further cements the style's niche as being all about subduing folks and dragging them into custody.
      - Heart-Grasping Talon Technique is interesting, because it effectively allows Terrestrial-keyworded Exalts to take two out-of-turn actions without sacrificing their action for the next round. On the other hand, they do so by paying through the nose (8m is quite an investment with DB mote pools, and they don't even get anima levels out of it - oh who am I kidding, they can just toss some excellency dice on it and hit 5 for both), the effect is conditional on the attacker being armed and the user's ability to successfully disarm them, and initiative dumped into the disarm is effectively -4 raw damage for the followup decisive. On the mutant third hand, Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash is an 8m 1WP reflexive Clash Charm and it still eats up the DB's combat action while also preventing them from taking a second action with the form benefit. Hm.
      - End of the Hunt says it's Essence 2 but has an Essence 3 Charm as a prerequisite. Otherwise it seems powerful but roughly on par with other conditional effect Charms that grant double 8s on damage (Kindly Sifu's Quill's Mastery effect and Vindictive Concubine's Pillow Book being major points of consideration). On the other hand, given that Kindly Sifu's Quill's damage-doubling is only accessible for Solars, and Vindictive Concubine's Pillow Book is a multi-condition effect that is both more expensive and has a Terrestrial reset condition, I'd probably rework it to be more similar to the latter.


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      • Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
        - The Voice of Justice is word-for-word the same effect as the Earth-aspected Presence Charm of the same name. *checks Presence* Oh, apparently you removed the original. Sneaky.
        I decided it was a better fit here than as a Presence Charm. I'll give Earth Presence something else in the expansion set.

        Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
        - The Strength of Order's keywords were being rewritten as I read it, even though I was so ready to complain about it being Dual. Anyway, 3m for a conditional +4 raw damage boost is not a super great deal, but I guess I can live with it. Should probably have Mastery though, because this effect is definitely not Solar-tier (FoIT lets you ignore the same amount of soak unconditionally for 1m). Maybe add post-soak damage with Mastery.
        I was comparing it more against other MA pre-form damage boosters than against Solar Brawl, they likewise tend to be more expensive and conditional. Compare Striking Cobra Technique, Striking Fury Claws, Seven Points of Weakness or Falling Scythe Flash.

        Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
        - I believe the correct technical term is "Profile Character action". Otherwise, Steel-Taloned Mospid Form looks okay, albeit as a personal preference, I'd get rid of the baseline withering damage boost to really make it focused on its core theme.
        The name of this action always trips me up, edited. The withering boost was tacked on because I felt it needed a little more punch; the gambit bonus alone falls short in comparison with (for example) Crane's counterattacks.

        Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
        - Heart-Grasping Talon Technique is interesting, because it effectively allows Terrestrial-keyworded Exalts to take two out-of-turn actions without sacrificing their action for the next round. On the other hand, they do so by paying through the nose (8m is quite an investment with DB mote pools, and they don't even get anima levels out of it - oh who am I kidding, they can just toss some excellency dice on it and hit 5 for both), the effect is conditional on the attacker being armed and the user's ability to successfully disarm them, and initiative dumped into the disarm is effectively -4 raw damage for the followup decisive. On the mutant third hand, Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash is an 8m 1WP reflexive Clash Charm and it still eats up the DB's combat action while also preventing them from taking a second action with the form benefit. Hm.
        Clash Charms require DB combat action and their multi-attack decisives are far more limited than Solar ones. I tend to make counterattacks more permissive because they are traditionally a fairly strong part of the DB set; compare 2e Smoldering Karma Strike vs Solar Counterattack, they are almost identical. Kiss the Steel Prince and Heart-Grasping Talon Technique together are intended to be a strong combo but I don't think they really break the power curve, certainly not more than certain other post-form MA Charm combos.

        Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
        - End of the Hunt says it's Essence 2 but has an Essence 3 Charm as a prerequisite. Otherwise it seems powerful but roughly on par with other conditional effect Charms that grant double 8s on damage (Kindly Sifu's Quill's Mastery effect and Vindictive Concubine's Pillow Book being major points of consideration). On the other hand, given that Kindly Sifu's Quill's damage-doubling is only accessible for Solars, and Vindictive Concubine's Pillow Book is a multi-condition effect that is both more expensive and has a Terrestrial reset condition, I'd probably rework it to be more similar to the latter.
        Essence is left over from a previous draft, good catch. A Terrestrial reset condition is probably fine, I'll think of one to add. Because these are styles intended for a DB book I have tried my best to tread softly on Terrestrial and Mastery keywords.

        Thanks for the feedback, very helpful.


        A Clutch of Dragons: Hub Thread, Presence, Resistance, Ride, Sail, Socialize Stealth, Survival, Thrown, War, First Draft pdf<NEW

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        • Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post
          I was comparing it more against other MA pre-form damage boosters than against Solar Brawl, they likewise tend to be more expensive and conditional. Compare Striking Cobra Technique, Striking Fury Claws, Seven Points of Weakness or Falling Scythe Flash.

          - Striking Cobra Technique's best-case scenario is +5 post-soak damage for 3m, and it can also be used to enhance decisives. It is also telling that despite being significantly better than TSoO, it still has the Mastery keyword.
          - Striking Fury Claws' best-case scenario is 5 post-soak damage successes for 6m, albeit in all fairness, a Terrestrial is unlikely to get this much out of it against meaningful opposition, and it converts raw damage dice for this effect. In any case, it also has Mastery, which effectively lets the user straight-up add its effect without using up raw damage dice.
          - Falling Scythe Flash adds 5 raw damage for 5 motes, which does work out for a worse mote-initiative ratio than TSoO, but it also lets you add 3 raw damage to a decisive in its best-case scenario, which is effectively +3 Initiative for 5m - compare and contrast with TSoO's up to 4 raw damage, which works out to an average of +2 Initiative for 3m in its best-case scenario and may still be negated by soak. It is also worth noting that White Reaper is much more permissive in armor and form weapon requirements, which means its Charms have to be weaker, and the fact that soak is reasonably likely to be a problem for a Mospid stylist, because they're limited to Light weapons.
          - Seven Points of Weakness Strike's best-case scenario is +10 damage for 4m, albeit this is indeed very unlikely to happen - except for Solars, a Solar gets to add post-soak damage dice with the Mastery effect if their opponent runs out of soak. Nevertheless, a Solar doesn't even need to play to the style's strengths to get better benefits than TSoO, which is definitely not a point in Mospid Style's favor. Granted, Ebon Shadow has significantly stricter armor restrictions, so its Charms are supposed to be better.


          In summary, even comparison with other pre-form damage boosters shows that the inclusion of a Mastery benefit is entirely warranted.



          Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post
          The withering boost was tacked on because I felt it needed a little more punch; the gambit bonus alone falls short in comparison with (for example) Crane's counterattacks.
          Crane's counterattacks are not free: the character effectively has to give up their action by going into Full Defense or by using Defend Other to get them. It can be a net action benefit, but it can also be shut down entirely by just attacking a different target. If you still think there's an imbalance, I think bumping the cost down to 6m is a preferable solution.


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          • Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
            In summary, even comparison with other pre-form damage boosters shows that the inclusion of a Mastery benefit is entirely warranted.
            Point well made, buffed the base Charm and added a Mastery benefit.

            Originally posted by aluminiumtrioxid View Post
            Crane's counterattacks are not free: the character effectively has to give up their action by going into Full Defense or by using Defend Other to get them. It can be a net action benefit, but it can also be shut down entirely by just attacking a different target. If you still think there's an imbalance, I think bumping the cost down to 6m is a preferable solution.
            I could do that as well, but I don't think the withering boost is so out of theme with the style that doing away with it is a priority.


            A Clutch of Dragons: Hub Thread, Presence, Resistance, Ride, Sail, Socialize Stealth, Survival, Thrown, War, First Draft pdf<NEW

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            • Originally posted by Crumplepunch View Post
              I could do that as well, but I don't think the withering boost is so out of theme with the style that doing away with it is a priority.
              Certainly not, but the style is limited to light weapons, and the form charm bumping their damage profile up to that of a medium weapon gets rid of a weakness that would otherwise be interesting to work around on the player side.


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              • Is there any plan for a comprehensive Google doc at some point to make this easier to go through?

                I just finished organizing all the different Google Docs into a folder on my Drive... But it would be easier if there was an All-In-One document.

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                • Originally posted by Wednesday View Post
                  Is there any plan for a comprehensive Google doc at some point to make this easier to go through?

                  I just finished organizing all the different Google Docs into a folder on my Drive... But it would be easier if there was an All-In-One document.
                  I tried making one but the way I have formatted the Charms causes the page to bookmark every Charm, making navigation very difficult.

                  A first draft of the ACoD pdf with all the current Charms and fancy art and stuff should be done very soon.


                  A Clutch of Dragons: Hub Thread, Presence, Resistance, Ride, Sail, Socialize Stealth, Survival, Thrown, War, First Draft pdf<NEW

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                  • Sorry a bit behind on that. Should have it done by Friday.


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