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  • 3rd Edition Lookshy and Solars.

    So I thought that it was worth asking how Lookshy would react to a Solar in 3rd edition? Previous editions portrayed Lookshy as deeply pragmatic and that while they disliked Anathema they seemed to be willing to work with them for mutual benefit.

    3rd Edition has explicitly shown a fanatical and much more importantly Immaculate Lookshy, does this mean that Lookshy is now at a stage that they unwilling to work with Anathema regardless of interest?

    At the same time the changes to crafting and the introduction of Workings makes something Craft or Occult Supernal Twilight absurdly valuable, to say nothing about the value of a War-Supernal Dawn that could literally make Gunzosha quality troops the mainstay of your forces. Just thought that it would be interesting to speculate until more concrete information is available.

    To be clear I am referring to the leadership since common people wanting to lynch Celestials being the global norm is far from new.

  • #2
    I'm still reading though the new book (649 pages? Sheesh!) but i'd probably say that the individual commanders will be pragmatic as they need to be, some will be fanatical to the degree of Idiocy/self-destruction others will be extremely pragmatic.


    Light and Dark are two Sides of a Coin... Humanity is What Happens when it Lands on it's Edge.

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    • #3
      I don't know what will be canon, but I'd portray Lookshy with a some good old fashion pragmatic hypocrisy. On one hand, they hunt down Anathema with as much vigor as the Realm. On the other hand, they have some poor Twilight locked up in a top secret manse, producing new artifacts. It's only a matter of time before this Twilight realizes that they are being used and figures out "Hey, maybe instead of taking orders, I could be running things." At which point, the General Staff will off the Anathema and wait for the next inevitable Twilight Exaltation*.

      *Come on! Lookshian Twilight has to be one of the most common character types in Exalted.


      I write things.

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      • #4
        Lookshy is run by military pragmatists, but they're also an Immaculate town, even if it's their own state church rather than the same Immaculate Order that is embedded in the Realm. They maintain their own equivalent of the Wyld Hunt, and would never be seen using Solars openly.

        That said, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the leadership may use Solars covertly. Night Caste are particularly valuable in this sense, because they excel at remaining covert. Twilight as well, because a single Twilight can serve as an incredibly effective military support... but more forward and public Castes are something they'd probably not be willing to fold into existing forces. More likely, they'd act through intermediaries to contract such heroes into situations that they need a wrench thrown into. Having a Dawn train or lead standing Lookshy forces? The troops wouldn't stand for it. Have the Spec Ops Night Caste whose status as a Solar Anathema is classified join a Circle of Solars in order to steer them into situations that Lookshy would like resolved? Absolutely.

        What I'm getting at is that the leadership inevitably won't like them... But if it can be done out of the light of day, and could keep Lookshy soldiers from going into battle, they might be willing to use them. It's chess (or Gateway if you prefer), the Solar is an expendable piece that can be used to great effect.
        Last edited by Caffeine Delusions; 06-10-2016, 02:01 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Caffeine Delusions View Post
          Have the Spec Ops Night Caste whose status as a Solar Anathema is classified join a Circle of Solars in order to steer them into situations that Lookshy would like resolved? Absolutely.
          I want to play this character now.

          /adds to the pile of Lookshy based character concepts.

          ((Also add a Lookshian Dawn that gets run out of town by the Wyld Hunt, who finds out about the Lookshian Night Caste who was given rank in Military Intelligence. Epic Rivalry Ensures. ))
          Last edited by wonderandawe; 06-09-2016, 03:14 PM.


          I write things.

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          • #6
            Lookshy may be a different branch of the Immaculate tree (the original trunk, really), but they're still Immaculates, and they still have a Purist faction that doesn't just not like Solars, Lunars, and Abyssals, it also doesn't like one of its allies (Great Forks) for being openly ruled by gods and having so many God-Blooded, as well as being a Mecca for Exigents (that last one being a recent feature from EX3). While the faction is not the majority by any means, Karal Linwei is in a potentially career-ending crisis, not a mild upset, over her daughter being a Zenith, and Fire Orchid's story makes no sense if Solars can work so directly with the Seventh. Really, the only difference is that what they do is actually called a Wyld Hunt now.

            As for the utility of the Solars, it's arguably less in this edition, on account of Dragon-Blooded being able to make Artifact 4 - N/A stuff with ratings of 5 in an Ability, and being able to get anything short of an Ambition 3 Solar working by dint of hard work. They'd probably rather continue working on their own than be beholden to a weak link that needs protection and may also, in fact, be a demon in a flesh suit, which reflects poorly on both metic Solars and natives of Lookshy that become Celestials, since the former can't be trusted and the latter are suspect because only the spiritually weak and vulnerable who take excessive risks and potentially disrupt unit cohesion become Anathema, and everyone "knows" it.

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            • #7
              Wyld Hunts issue from Lookshy, even if they're not specifically funded by the government the way that they are in the Realm; they're a private interest.

              ​I'd say that if Mnemon, of all people, can be plausibly written as making a brief pact with the Mask of Winters via an Abyssal Exalt intermediary, then somebody with authority in Lookshy might do so on a case by case basis, even if that person still thinks the one they're dealing with is an abomination and they'll be looking to help out with destroying them at the earliest possible opportunity.

              It's a lot like how Hitler really hated Communism, but was still able to manage to reach an agreement with the Soviet Union that held up for a few years, until he went with the whole "time to destroy Communism" thing.

              Or how Churchill and Roosevelt really hated Communism, and were still able to form an alliance to conduct a war and divvy up occupation of Germany that held up for a few years, until they went with the whole "let's don nothing to really alleviate or compromise with your legitimate fears of future western invasion, so it all comes to a head more explosively" thing.

              So it may be that forming alliances with Anathema that you know you will inevitably have to destroy is not the best course of action.


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post

                I want to play this character now.

                /adds to the pile of Lookshy based character concepts.

                ((Also add a Lookshian Dawn that gets run out of town by the Wyld Hunt, who finds out about the Lookshian Night Caste who was given rank in Military Intelligence. Epic Rivalry Ensures. ))

                Glad to serve. It's actually the concept behind a stock character of mine; Adamant Viper. Yes, his name is a blatant send-up of Solid Snake.

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                • #9
                  I'm... Still toying with the Idea of a Lookshyian Gunzhosha(?) Armour wearer who Exalted as a Dawn caste while in combat.. He's managed to get away with staying in the military by staying in the armour and keeping the Charm use to a minimum.


                  Light and Dark are two Sides of a Coin... Humanity is What Happens when it Lands on it's Edge.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RickmanUK View Post
                    I'm... Still toying with the Idea of a Lookshyian Gunzhosha(?) Armour wearer who Exalted as a Dawn caste while in combat.. He's managed to get away with staying in the military by staying in the armour and keeping the Charm use to a minimum.

                    Your Dawn could be buddies with my Chosen of Ending Gunzhosha Commando.... if your Dawn can remember who he is.


                    I write things.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post

                      I want to play this character now.

                      /adds to the pile of Lookshy based character concepts.

                      ((Also add a Lookshian Dawn that gets run out of town by the Wyld Hunt, who finds out about the Lookshian Night Caste who was given rank in Military Intelligence. Epic Rivalry Ensures. ))

                      I have played that character (More or less)

                      My character was a Shinobi for Gens Karal (SP?) who, while on a mission, Exalted as a Night Caste. Hating what he now was, and being a staunchly loyal citizen, he continued to do his duty, just taking further and further ranging tasks, meticulously making sure that what he was stayed hidden.

                      My Circle eventually figured out he wasn't just some peasant, and he was outted as a Night Caste (By Five Days Darkness, since I was apparently the reincarnation of Ebon Shadow's Daughter), but when the game came to a shitty sudden end, the Circle had still never found out his true purpose, and that he was actively spying on/working against them.

                      Hell of a lot of fun.


                      Exalted Behind a Screen of Jade, Savant of the Immaculate Texts, No Moon Scholar, Seeking Awakened, Cloaked Changeling, Disciple of the Antler Crown, Wraith, Good Sitting Dog, Best Lurking Cat with Bones, Pioneer Pooch, Scion with Shield of Knowledge, Director

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                      • #12
                        A decent chunk of the "pragmatic with regards to Anathema" image of Lookshy was confusion on the part of the writers who had those sections (per Neph, long, long ago). Lookshy is pragmatic, but it's also full-bore Immaculate. It's worth remembering the power of Celestials threatens Dragon-Blooded hegemony. It's also worth remembering that Lunars want to destroy Lookshy as much as they want to destroy the Realm, so Lookshyan soldiers get the pleasure of fighting asymmetric campaigns against Lunar-led armies. Both are squatting on the legacy of the First Age, which the Lunars feel belongs to them. Even non-religious Lookshyans believe Lunars and Solars are Anathema. To them, that's just factual. Expecting them to casually deal or recruit world-endangering Demons because they don't show up to church is kinda silly.

                        That doesn't mean deals won't occur, of course. It just means those deals are closer to those movies where the CIA cuts deals with the Mafia or drug lords. Nobody trusts anybody, there are lots of readied weapons at all times, and chances are both sides have plans to eliminate or expose the other as soon as it's tenable.

                        If I were a member of the General Staff of Lookshy, the idea of steering a full Circle of Solars to do my bidding would be roughly as appealing as saddle-breaking a Behemoth.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                          As for the utility of the Solars, it's arguably less in this edition, on account of Dragon-Blooded being able to make Artifact 4 - N/A stuff with ratings of 5 in an Ability, and being able to get anything short of an Ambition 3 Solar working by dint of hard work.
                          How are they getting the thirty-some-odd successes each Craft interval?

                          Likewise, I wouldn't imply that achieving a Solar Working of any Ambition is something DBs would look on as reliable. To put it shortly, even going with Finesse 1 and a fistful of Means, the dice math is really against them.
                          Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 06-09-2016, 06:50 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Totentanz View Post
                            A decent chunk of the "pragmatic with regards to Anathema" image of Lookshy was confusion on the part of the writers who had those sections (per Neph, long, long ago). Lookshy is pragmatic, but it's also full-bore Immaculate. It's worth remembering the power of Celestials threatens Dragon-Blooded hegemony. It's also worth remembering that Lunars want to destroy Lookshy as much as they want to destroy the Realm, so Lookshyan soldiers get the pleasure of fighting asymmetric campaigns against Lunar-led armies. Both are squatting on the legacy of the First Age, which the Lunars feel belongs to them. Even non-religious Lookshyans believe Lunars and Solars are Anathema. To them, that's just factual. Expecting them to casually deal or recruit world-endangering Demons because they don't show up to church is kinda silly.

                            That doesn't mean deals won't occur, of course. It just means those deals are closer to those movies where the CIA cuts deals with the Mafia or drug lords. Nobody trusts anybody, there are lots of readied weapons at all times, and chances are both sides have plans to eliminate or expose the other as soon as it's tenable.

                            If I were a member of the General Staff of Lookshy, the idea of steering a full Circle of Solars to do my bidding would be roughly as appealing as saddle-breaking a Behemoth.
                            That is quickly becoming a reservation of mine when dealing with 3rd (even though it has done a marvelous job of convincing me until now), I feel like it makes Lookshy and the Realm too similar, I always thought that Lookshy had a very Shinto approach to their faith with it being very secondary to their ancient Greek style Nationalism. It really does just feel painfully unnecessary to have yet another group devouted to ending Solars. It should honestly at least occur to at least some Lookshyians that a Solar could be Lookshyian first and Anathema second.

                            A vibe that I loved from 1st edition was that people viewed Solars and Lunars as extremely different things, both were Anathema but while Lunars were active threats that are a well known quantity. Solars on the other hand were this mysterious force that were only well known by devout Immaculate historians (read:Sidereals) that no one really knew how to deal with other than that they were Anathema in extremely old legends. Nowadays everyone is suspiciously well-informed as to what they are and have very concrete opinions about them.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Totentanz View Post
                              A decent chunk of the "pragmatic with regards to Anathema" image of Lookshy was confusion on the part of the writers who had those sections (per Neph, long, long ago). Lookshy is pragmatic, but it's also full-bore Immaculate. It's worth remembering the power of Celestials threatens Dragon-Blooded hegemony. It's also worth remembering that Lunars want to destroy Lookshy as much as they want to destroy the Realm, so Lookshyan soldiers get the pleasure of fighting asymmetric campaigns against Lunar-led armies. Both are squatting on the legacy of the First Age, which the Lunars feel belongs to them. Even non-religious Lookshyans believe Lunars and Solars are Anathema. To them, that's just factual. Expecting them to casually deal or recruit world-endangering Demons because they don't show up to church is kinda silly.

                              That doesn't mean deals won't occur, of course. It just means those deals are closer to those movies where the CIA cuts deals with the Mafia or drug lords. Nobody trusts anybody, there are lots of readied weapons at all times, and chances are both sides have plans to eliminate or expose the other as soon as it's tenable.

                              If I were a member of the General Staff of Lookshy, the idea of steering a full Circle of Solars to do my bidding would be roughly as appealing as saddle-breaking a Behemoth.
                              That is quickly becoming a reservation of mine when dealing with 3rd (even though it has done a marvelous job of convincing me until now), I feel like it makes Lookshy and the Realm too similar, I always thought that Lookshy had a very Shinto approach to their faith with it being very secondary to their ancient Greek style Nationalism. It really does just feel painfully unnecessary to have yet another group devouted to ending Solars. It should honestly at least occur to at least some Lookshyians that a Solar could be Lookshyian first and Anathema second.

                              A vibe that I loved from 1st edition was that people viewed Solars and Lunars as extremely different things, both were Anathema but while Lunars were active threats that are a well known quantity. Solars on the other hand were this mysterious force that were only well known by devout Immaculate historians (read:Sidereals) that no one really knew how to deal with other than that they were Anathema in extremely old legends. Nowadays everyone is suspiciously well-informed as to what they are and have very concrete opinions about them.

                              EDIT: Can anyone tell me how the same post got copied?

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