OK, but Seriously Though...Where's My Exalted?

[blindST]

So, first, yes, I'm aware that 3rd Edition is out and, don't get me wrong, I like it a lot! Made me giddy and giggle and feel all funny in places. Then...um...nothing? I'm just a little confused. There used to be this GREAT support for, what is arguably, my all time favorite game! So many AWESOME books! When I read 3rd Edition, I couldn't wait to read books about the new Exalt types! I'm not ashamed to admit, I hyped it. I hyped it something fierce. But...now what? Are we going to get one book a year? I'm not sure how much I can get my players into that let alone myself. I want to buy books. I want THEM to buy books. It's just...there's a lack of books.

When I thought about it, I could see no reason for us to use 3rd Edition over 2nd. That's not true. I like the system, I do, but when I compare the wealth of material for 2nd to 3rd, it's almost a no brainer. It doesn't take a Lore Charm to see that I'm going to get more miles out of one then the other.

Now, the argument can be made "Well, 2nd edition had many years to build upon itself" and, yes, that's true, but I feel as if 3rd Edition has been put on the back burner. That there's no building happening or, rather, the building is very, very slow to the point of questionable existence. It's not as if there's not a demand, right? Am I wrong in thinking it's still a profitable line? Is that the issue?

Please, don't get it twisted, I LOVE what's happening with the World of Darkness! Books left and right and I'm just LOVING it! Both game lines, Classic and New. Good, good stuff.

I just wish that my poor Exalted got half as much attention.

Am I alone in this? If so, please, tell me. Am I not seeing something? That wouldn't be hard, I'm Visually Impaired (it's in the name!). I just feel like Exalted is less a game about Mythic Demigods and more a game about waiting for the next delay.

This post was made because I wanted my voice to be heard on the subject. On a subject I love. It was also to get information and opinions. So, please, feel free to give me both.

I just really, really wanted some Liminal and Exigent books, man. Is that too much to hope for?

[The Unsung Hero]

I can't begin to predict how this will turn out, but bare in mind that 4-5 books a year was relatively common for previous editions and they're shooting for 4 books a year with this edition. The core has only officially been out for just about 3 months now. So if the next book were to come out this next month they'd be close to on time. I AM NOT STATING THAT I ASSUME THIS TO BE THE CASE. On the contrary, my assumption in that a lot of the gears have paused to get the Kickstarter fulfilled and done with. Whatever it means for the gameline, I bet there'll be an uproar if another supplement comes out before the original product for all those people that backed the KS. The next 3 books are already in 2 Draft stage, so it is my strong assumption that once the KS materials are all shipped, the books will return to their original distribution rate.

Which is still (as of the most recent information I've heard) planned at 4 books a year. So it's still going to take a while.

[Sanctaphrax]

Four books a year? Where did you hear that?

Anyway, the schedule page lists the releases they have planned for 2016. No Exalted books are among them, unfortunately; the Exalted stuff is all "On The Horizon".

Given Holden's comments about the damage that 2e being rushed did, I expect them to take their time on future releases. My best guess is that we'll see DBs next year and Exigents the year after that, with one or two non-splat books per year. That's actually a pretty quick pace for a project in which everything has to go through two people with other jobs.

[blindST]

I love 2nd Edition. I know a lot of people think it's broken, but, personally, I feel Exalted SHOULD be broken. Point is, I never had an issue running it.

4 books a year? That I can get behind. If that happens, I'll retract all my doubts. Right here. No problem. I'll recommend my players get out there and throw money at the line like no tomorrow. I'll sing the praises to my friends and family!

One book a year? Um...not so much...I could understand 1 big book and 2-3 smaller books, but people are going to get bored easily and drop a game if there's no new content. It's just how games tend to go.

In the end, I'll cross my fingers for new books, but I'm going to have to say that I won't recommend the new edition without some new stuff and I like it, I do. That being said, I can use the 2nd Ed. books for many years to come without an issue. I just really want to give money to the Exalted line rather than use what I have.

Maybe I'm just being greedy? Maybe selfish? Perhaps, but it's hard to stay interested in a book you've read back to front over and over again. Does that make sense?

[AnubisXy]

One of the biggest issues with the old pace of Exalted's publishing was that they would print out Charm trees for splats with little mechanical playtesting and very little editing or time to rewrite. This was, to put it mildly, a big fucking problem.

Third Edition is coming out at a slower pace, in part, because the authors want to make sure that all of the splats get the attention they deserve and nobody ends up with a half-assed Charmset because they had to rush the book out the door.

[The Unsung Hero]

Four books a year? Where did you hear that?

It was said by a Dev at some point as a goal of theirs. 2 splatbooks, 2 supplements per year. It's been well over a year since I heard that last and I couldn't begin to quote it, so feel free to find it dubious. I stand by my theory about the KS being the holdup at the moment, though.

[Beriorn]

It takes more than 3 months to go from book concept to release. You need the base idea of what's gonna be in there, define every last bit to be added, make initial rules, playtest, learn how to fail and break them, fix them, repeat the above a few times, write lore stuff, proofread, check against previous lore, rewrite and check it again. When you have everything slap it together into a book, start cutting in text because there's too much of it, proofread, make sure all references are to page XX, add the art, create the index, make sure the printer can use it, send it off, get it printed, ship, say sorry for being 2+ years late and move on.

And that's a simple version.

[Sanctaphrax]

Well, I'd be shocked to see four books a year. Books take a long time and a lot of work. I doubt they could pull that off without an unacceptable level of delegation.

I love 2nd Edition. I know a lot of people think it's broken, but, personally, I feel Exalted SHOULD be broken. Point is, I never had an issue running it.

No, it really shouldn't be broken. Tons of people have had horrible problems running it, largely because of said broken-ness. If it worked for you, great, but I'm very glad the writers don't share your perspective here.

One book a year? Um...not so much...I could understand 1 big book and 2-3 smaller books, but people are going to get bored easily and drop a game if there's no new content. It's just how games tend to go.

In the end, I'll cross my fingers for new books, but I'm going to have to say that I won't recommend the new edition without some new stuff and I like it, I do. That being said, I can use the 2nd Ed. books for many years to come without an issue. I just really want to give money to the Exalted line rather than use what I have.

Maybe I'm just being greedy? Maybe selfish? Perhaps, but it's hard to stay interested in a book you've read back to front over and over again. Does that make sense?

I wouldn't call you greedy or selfish. But I don't really get the concern - I never felt like book flow was a problem playing DFRPG, for instance.

If you want to send in money, John has a Patreon you can donate to.

[blindST]

Meh. As I said, I never got my Exalted that broken. Like any game, there's going to be cracks and, as an ST, you just seal them as best you can. White Wolf is pretty well known for this so it's not hard to see it coming and stem the flow before the dam breaks. Keep in mind, I'm coming at this from a ST standpoint, where if I have a problem with a rule, I can just change it. I suppose it could be different for players. I suppose I just wanted to know what the hold up was. Now I know. I can move forward with my plans to just use the previous edition and, maybe in a decade, I'll have enough source material to switch it over. I honestly think it's a slow pace, but if it turns out to be two splats and two others, I'll eat my words and be happy. I mentioned the WoD pace previous. If Exalted is done at the same pace, that's great. If it's not, well, that's odd. I guess to answer you on why I'm concerned, it's one of my favorite games and it seems to not be getting the attention it deserves imo. It's on the back burner. I made a thread about the wiki years ago and that still isn't up again.

Look, I understand playtesting something. I dig that. But how many times must it be tested? Until it's not broken? It will always be broken. Always. Just look at your link "EX3 Craft Rewrite". If it's going through this much editing and still needing that, hell, rush the book. We're going to rewrite it anyway right? It's not an excuse, but at least I got a reason. I thank you for that. I'm going back to reading the WONDERFULLY written 2nd Edition Abyssal book.

(A plea to the crew on the Exalted line: I'm sorry if I seem overly critical, we gamers often are. Your work is amazing. I would just like more. Thank you for your hard work. Also, all the World of Darkness stuff is bomb. Very pleased on that front.)

[blindST]

BTW, I always think it's very funny that people think a game about breaking reality and molding it your whim is in some way broken or that it can even be broken. It's a game about breaking the game. It's built for just that. I found that 2nd Edition did that very well. Thus, it fulfilled it's goal in my mind, making it just what it's supposed to be. It's like people that watch Snakes on a Plane and then say "That was was stupid movie". It had Snakes. They were on a Plane. It fulfilled it's promise. :P

[Eura]

I just want my damn printed deluxe book, ST screen, and map. Any bonus supplement is just icing on the cake to me atm.

[Isator Levi]

The Realm will need no playtesting.

[CapitanTypo]

As someone who has also personally expressed frustration at the delay of exalted 3 core, i found this blog post from Neil Gaiman helpful in gaining perspective: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/0...ssues.html?m=1

[Ghosthead]

I think even pure setting work actually arguably needs playtesting to see if the assumptions prove fun and engaging to play with (and if not then those assumptions change or get written differently). Even setting stuff is not "Just plonk out this beautifully detailed culture, without any particular concerns as to whether the audience are engaged and enjoying themselves when they play in it".

Re: OP, yes to me, to be honest, my expectation of Exalted is more about having imaginative content for a lot of splats and venues of play, and then winging it, and not necessarily having lots of very rich content for one or two splats, and that content being very, very well playtested to not break. So Exalted 3e's release strategy does feel like it will remain be quite unsatisfying for some time (and to me it seems a bit strange to build up the idea of "Let's build enthusiasm for our new edition using these new splats... which we'll release 3-4 years after the core" if that's actually really the intent, taking Sanct's one splat per year literally).

At the same time, could Onyx Path could sell anything close to WW's previous way of doing Exalted - up front you get mechanics which are a bit wonky, but there's lots to play as and lots of varied content - a third time? Would most of the long term fans who've been frustrated by having to wing and houserule things to get something that sort of works well enough without being patched on the fly want anything that wasn't 100% in the other direction? IDK.

[Isator Levi]

I think even pure setting work actually arguably needs playtesting to see if the assumptions prove fun and engaging to play with (and if not then those assumptions change or get written differently). Even setting stuff is not "Just plonk out this beautifully detailed culture, without any particular concerns as to whether the audience are engaged and enjoying themselves when they play in it".

It seems to me that such a thing is far too subjective to test for in such a manner.

There are people who, if the current setting had been tested in such a manner, we never would have gotten it.

The Realm in particular is an interesting case, because there have been people who have talked about how they find the premise of a halfway honest depiction of imperialism to be something they would not have fun with, so... should the book be changed for them?