Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OK, but Seriously Though...Where's My Exalted?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by RichT View Post
    Sorry you didn't like the fiction anthology. Did you read the final product or just the initial backer PDF?
    The final product bears most of the same complaints. There were some edits of A Singular Justice, including a label of "A Tale of the First Age", none of which really helped its problems. Changing to the First Age actually introduced several new issues* because the story still contains many elements peculiar to the Age of Sorrows, such as the mentions of Empress and Dynasty. The other problem stories, including the infamous Dragon-Blooded Solar and the multiple mentions of an Emperor, seemed to go entirely unedited.

    The new story was good, I'd rank it my third favourite in the collection after Kingdom of Honey and Resting Place at the Heart of the Mountain.

    *

    My personal favourite edit was changing the name of the Iselsi agent who contacts Unforgiven Blossom in Resting Place at the Heart of the Mountain from Khelzar Rhey to Cathak Creos. This is a bit silly, let me count the ways.

    1) Iselsi's whole deal is that it is an exiled, disgraced house that operates in the shadows and would never contact anyone on behalf of the Imperial Bureaucracy. That was the word that needed edited, the Dragon-Blood's name was fine, not every Terrestrial in the Realm has a Great House name.

    2) Cathak is also a great house (though not an exiled one). A Cathak would not be an Iselsi and vice versa.

    3) The name Cathak Creos is lifted from a mentioned character in A Singular Justice, despite the stories taking place over a thousand years apart and the Cathak line being founded many hundreds of years after the time period A Singular Justice supposedly takes place.

    4) To add insult to injury, he is still referred to as Rhey four times during the story.
    Last edited by Crumplepunch; 07-27-2016, 05:20 PM.


    A Clutch of Dragons: Hub Thread, Presence, Resistance, Ride, Sail, Socialize Stealth, Survival, Thrown, War, First Draft pdf<NEW

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RichT View Post
      As I already said, said Stretch Goal rewards are not unnecessary and not something that alters what folks can and do get paid.
      Not unnecessary? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Exalted needs a music suite?

      I'm always hearing about how you guys don't have enough money to pay people decently. Well, you'd have more money if you didn't waste it. And then you could pay people better. And then you'd get better work out of them.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
        Are you seriously trying to tell me that Exalted needs a music suite?
        I'd sure like one.

        Comment


        • Will you stop playing if we don't get one?

          Do you look at 3e now and say "This would be worth my attention if it had music. But it doesn't so it isn't."?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
            Will you stop playing if we don't get one?

            Do you look at 3e now and say "This would be worth my attention if it had music. But it doesn't so it isn't."?
            If anyone felt that way about any of the stretch goals they would be terrible stretch goals, now wouldn't they?


            A Clutch of Dragons: Hub Thread, Presence, Resistance, Ride, Sail, Socialize Stealth, Survival, Thrown, War, First Draft pdf<NEW

            Comment


            • Heh, yeah.

              Which really makes it weird for Rich to call them necessary.

              Comment


              • People whined about the "pay the devs" stretch goals, so let's pretend that making every stretch goal "pay the devs" would work better.


                When all the world was very young
                And mountain magic heavy hung
                The supermen would walk in file
                Guardians of a loveless isle

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post

                  Not unnecessary? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Exalted needs a music suite?

                  I'm always hearing about how you guys don't have enough money to pay people decently. Well, you'd have more money if you didn't waste it. And then you could pay people better. And then you'd get better work out of them.
                  Again, not a waste of money if it allows other people other ways to access Exalted 3rd and they begin buying the books. No Stretch Goal is for everyone, the idea is to create a series of projects that appeal to more than one type of person who might enjoy Exalted 3rd.

                  And again, we pay our creative folks what we can afford to pay (which is better than most in this business) on a company-wide level, not per book. A single Kickstarter does not enable everyone to get raises. So the Stretch Goals have not a thing to do with our pay rates. And our pay rates have not a thing to do with how Exalted 3rd has been handled, nor how the supplements are going.

                  I didn't hire Holden and John because they were cheap, I hired them because they had (and still have) a vision for how to recreate Exalted that I agreed with and believe in. Some truly awful life events have smashed into their efforts to bring that vision to everyone through the projects they are working on, but they are still committed to getting on top of the work needed to delivering the upcoming books.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Navar View Post
                    What I am reading from this seems that OPP and the Exalted team are currently slowed down significantly because of "synergy" problems. I almost hate to use that word as it is such a buzz word in business at the moment, but I cannot see a better word to describe that problem as I am understanding it. Now I don't have a good solution to synergy problems (and if I did I would be teaching it to other businesses at a premium.) BUT it seems to me that as OPP grows and moves forward that some investment in some kind of infrastructure might be a good idea.

                    The whole "mama needs new shoes" from earlier shouldn't be an issue.

                    Professionally I save the world, and am just wetting my toes into the book publishing industry with the impending release of my first book "Hazardous Waste Operations and Emergency Response." And my eyes have been opened quite a bit as to what happens between manuscript and finished project. In fact networking with OPP writers and developers actually helped me quite a bit, but I digress.

                    The issue here seems to be one of equipment and training. If I need to hire someone to move soil for me, then I would allow them to use the Yellow Iron I already possess. If I employ an individual to track shipments of hazardous waste then I provide that individual with access to our system. It would seem to me that providing freelancers with licenses for software (perhaps through logins to a shared computer network) or requesting that the product they deliver to you be in a specific file format might be something that would help OPP a LOT in the future. The Exalted kickstarter raised just north of 675 thousand dollars. A small infrastructure investment would likely pay off immensely.

                    OPP only makes money (in the long run) when they publish books. And any way those books can be published faster will only increase the total income of OPP and the profit margin per project as well.

                    I have capital. I want OPP to deliver more products to me that I may purchase. I recognise that synergy is hard, but from a customer point of view it is frustrating that a company that has created 20 Kickstarter projects, and delivered more than double that in high quality (really, by and large wonderful) books are still struggling with these issues.

                    I LOVE Exalted. Holden, John, and crew have truly created a new edition for a project that has brought me a lot of happiness and entertainment already. By and large the other lines from OPP are also fantastic, and I really applaud Rich Thomas for all of the hard work he has done to make me, and tens of thousands of other gamers like me happy and entertained. I just want more.
                    Er, I'm sorry to have given you entirely the wrong impression - mama needs new shoes was hyperbole (I mean, I'd love a nice pair of flat ankle boots that were comfy and looked good and fit but while I'm in the realm of fantasy I may as well pretend I can wear heels) because I have a real day job that actually pays my bills and rpgs are something I write because I love to. I don't particularly WANT to learn to draft my work in LaTeX or InDesign or whatever and I'm not going to buy it for the small amount of work I do in rpgs because it makes no sense to me as a writer to do so, and it isn't going to significantly change the bottom line given that this isn't structured anything like a single author work, or even an anthology. It requires a different skillset entirely and I need to emphasise this - none of y'all have any clue. Not to mention just how irritating it has turned out to be, this desire of mine to say 'things don't work the way you want it to, here are a few reasons why' and now you're using it to tell Rich Thomas to restructure his entire business? And even if you do work in publishing, do you work in this part? Do you work with these kinds of books? And let me also point out - I'm talking from the vantage point of being a writer and being friends with the devs so there is a WHOLE HUGE aspect of it (the actual layout, working with printers etc) that I have no clue about outside my experience elsewhere, and I haven't even touched on.

                    The chicken little routine about every single aspect of anything we say gets tedious.

                    And these are the kinds of pipeline issues all publishing has, for what it's worth (see: my day job).


                    ". ... for me, the transformative power of art is you are not above the material." -= Guillermo del Toro

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Root View Post
                      People whined about the "pay the devs" stretch goals, so let's pretend that making every stretch goal "pay the devs" would work better.
                      Let 'em whine. The right thing to do remains right no matter how much people complain about it.

                      Originally posted by RichT View Post
                      And again, we pay our creative folks what we can afford to pay (which is better than most in this business) on a company-wide level, not per book. A single Kickstarter does not enable everyone to get raises. So the Stretch Goals have not a thing to do with our pay rates.
                      Increasing pay rates literally was a stretch goal. How can you say that stretch goals have nothing to do with pay rates?

                      Originally posted by RichT View Post
                      And our pay rates have not a thing to do with how Exalted 3rd has been handled, nor how the supplements are going.
                      So, should we stop attributing various problems to the whole "barely paid second job" thing?

                      Comment




                      • I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sanctaphrax View Post
                          So, should we stop attributing various problems to the whole "barely paid second job" thing?
                          As someone who's looked into freelance writing and is studying it for his major, unless your a pulp writer in the `1920s, all freelance writing jobs are "barely paid second jobs". Its just not a thing that can be supported. If someone's writing not-novels or equally popular fiction(screenwriting, comics, etc) for money, then they are in for a bad time.


                          Restoring demonic glory in Infernals:What Hell Has Wrought

                          Comment


                          • No, a pay bump on EX3 itself was part of the EX3 KS. Twice I think, in fact. Rates are ongoing things that apply across the company for all the work a freelancer does.

                            If a freelancer posts that their pay rate caused problems with delivering a project, that's their legitimate personal take on a situation. When we say that there is a difference between full-time creative staffs and teams of freelancers that are doing their RPG work as a second or third job (which is most of our folks), and this can cause problems, pay rates are not usually the issue. Usually it is available time.

                            Comment


                            • Let me open this by saying that I am verbose and am plagued with ADD as well as a form of dyslexia, so I sometimes have trouble making my points online. With that said I didn't even make the point I wanted which was this:

                              From a customer point of view it is frustrating to wait for a product like the backer charm PDF when the rough draft was released about 60 days ago, and the final feedback was entered over 30 days ago. I don't know how "rough" it was, but 40+ days seems to be a very long time for a company like OPP to invest in what will likely be a $10.00 product on Drivethrough. That was my point.

                              Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post
                              Er, I'm sorry to have given you entirely the wrong impression - mama needs new shoes was hyperbole (I mean, I'd love a nice pair of flat ankle boots that were comfy and looked good and fit but while I'm in the realm of fantasy I may as well pretend I can wear heels) because I have a real day job that actually pays my bills and rpgs are something I write because I love to. I don't particularly WANT to learn to draft my work in LaTeX or InDesign or whatever and I'm not going to buy it for the small amount of work I do in rpgs because it makes no sense to me as a writer to do so, and it isn't going to significantly change the bottom line given that this isn't structured anything like a single author work, or even an anthology. It requires a different skillset entirely and I need to emphasise this - none of y'all have any clue. Not to mention just how irritating it has turned out to be, this desire of mine to say 'things don't work the way you want it to, here are a few reasons why' and now you're using it to tell Rich Thomas to restructure his entire business? And even if you do work in publishing, do you work in this part? Do you work with these kinds of books? And let me also point out - I'm talking from the vantage point of being a writer and being friends with the devs so there is a WHOLE HUGE aspect of it (the actual layout, working with printers etc) that I have no clue about outside my experience elsewhere, and I haven't even touched on.

                              The chicken little routine about every single aspect of anything we say gets tedious.

                              And these are the kinds of pipeline issues all publishing has, for what it's worth (see: my day job).
                              You didn't give me the wrong impression at all, but I am afraid I gave you the wrong impression. I meant that the tools that you use to do work for OPP shouldn't be solely your responsibility. It is reasonable for OPP to say things like "all work shall be submitted digitally" and they can expect that any writer can accommodate that. However if a specific software suite would vastly decrease the time that OPP needed to go from manuscript to product that OPP can charge money for then it would be in OPP's best interest to provide access to that software. There are tools now that would allow for this with little problem.

                              I have no idea about this industry at all, but the problem you seem to be describing is a universal one: Synergy. Investments in Synergy usually return rather high dividends.

                              Comment


                              • I foresee a thread lock coming...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X