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​Spun off from 'A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3' - Sidereal Excellency

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  • ​Spun off from 'A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-through of Ex3' - Sidereal Excellency

    First- CODE AND NUMBERS

    Das (corrected) code
    Code:
    public class Dice {
    
        private static final int ROLLS = 10000;
    
        private static enum Actor {
            SOLAR("Solar", 10, 0, 7, 10, 1, 10),
            SIDEREAL_W_0_BONUS("Sidereal wtih 0 bonus dice", 0, 0, 4, 10, 1, 10),
            SIDEREAL_W_1_BONUS("Sidereal with 1 bonus dice", 1, 0, 4, 10, 1, 10),
            SIDEREAL_W_2_BONUS("Sidereal with 2 bonus dice", 2, 0, 4, 10, 1, 10),
            SIDEREAL_W_3_BONUS("Sidereal with 3 bonus dice", 3, 0, 4, 10, 1, 10),
            SIDEREAL_W_4_BONUS("Sidereal with 4 bonus dice", 4, 0, 4, 10, 1, 10),
            SIDEREAL_W_5_BONUS("Sidereal with 5 bonus dice", 5, 0, 4, 10, 1, 10),
            SOLAR_W_EXCELLENT_STRIKE("Solar with Excellent Strike", 8, 1, 7, 10, 2, 10);
            
            private int bonusDice;
            private int bonusSuccesses;
            private int targetNumber;
            private String actorName;
            private int doubleNumber;
            private int min;
            private int max;
    
            private Actor(String actorName, int bonusDice, int bonusSuccesses, int targetNumber, int doubleNumber, int min, int max) {
                this.actorName = actorName;
                this.bonusDice = bonusDice;
                this.bonusSuccesses = bonusSuccesses;
                this.targetNumber = targetNumber;
                this.doubleNumber = doubleNumber;
                this.min = min;
                this.max = max;
            }
            
            @Override
            public String toString() {
                return "target number: " + targetNumber + " double number: " + doubleNumber + " bonus dice: " + bonusDice + " bonus successes: " + bonusSuccesses + " dice min/max " + min + "/" + max;
            }
        }
        
        public static void main(String a[]) {
            int[] successes = new int[50];
            int numberOfDice = 13;
            Actor actor = Actor.SOLAR_W_EXCELLENT_STRIKE;
            for(int i=0;i<ROLLS;i++) {
                successes[roll(actor.min, actor.max, numberOfDice + actor.bonusDice, actor.targetNumber, actor.doubleNumber)+actor.bonusSuccesses]++;
            }
            System.out.println("Test for " + actor.actorName);
            System.out.println("
    Code:
    ");
            System.out.println("Out of " + ROLLS + " attempts");
            for(int i =0;i<successes.length;i++) {
                int successesRolled = successes[i];
                if(successesRolled > 0) {
                    BigDecimal percentage = new BigDecimal(successesRolled).divide(new BigDecimal(ROLLS));
                    System.out.println(StringUtils.rightPad(Integer.toString(i), 3) +": " + StringUtils.leftPad(Integer.toString(successesRolled), 4) + " " + StringUtils.leftPad("(" + NumberFormat.getPercentInstance().format(percentage.doubleValue()) +")", 5));
                }
            }
            System.out.println("----");
            System.out.println("Number of dice: " + numberOfDice + " " + actor.toString());
            System.out.println("Top  5%: " + printTop(.05d, successes));
            System.out.println("Top 20%: " + printTop(.20d, successes));
            System.out.println("Top 33%: " + printTop(.33d, successes));
            System.out.println("Top 50%: " + printTop(.50d, successes));
            System.out.println("Top 67%: " + printTop(.67d, successes));
            System.out.println("
    "); } private static int printTop(double percentage, int[] successes) { int minimumNumberOfRolls = new Double(ROLLS * percentage).intValue(); int count = 0; for(int i=successes.length-1;i>0;i--) { count += successes[i]; if(count >= minimumNumberOfRolls) { return i; } } throw new IllegalStateException("Minimum percentage never found"); } private static int roll(int min, int max, int numberOfDice, int targetNumber, int doubleNumber) { int successes = 0; for(int i=0;i<numberOfDice;i++) { int roll = rollDie(min, max+1); if(roll >= targetNumber) { successes++; } if(roll >= doubleNumber) { successes++; } } return successes; } private static int rollDie(int min, int max) { return RandomUtils.nextInt(min, max); } }


    Results:

    ​Test for Sidereal wtih 0 bonus dice
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    2  :    1  (0%)
    3  :    4  (0%)
    4  :   18  (0%)
    5  :   63  (1%)
    6  :  254  (3%)
    7  :  603  (6%)
    8  :  967 (10%)
    9  : 1456 (15%)
    10 : 1818 (18%)
    11 : 1758 (18%)
    12 : 1406 (14%)
    13 :  920  (9%)
    14 :  454  (5%)
    15 :  211  (2%)
    16 :   56  (1%)
    17 :    8  (0%)
    18 :    3  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 0 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 14
    Top 20%: 12
    Top 33%: 11
    Top 50%: 10
    Top 67%: 9


    Test for Sidereal with 1 bonus dice
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    3  :    1  (0%)
    4  :   12  (0%)
    5  :   34  (0%)
    6  :  123  (1%)
    7  :  324  (3%)
    8  :  657  (7%)
    9  : 1127 (11%)
    10 : 1533 (15%)
    11 : 1787 (18%)
    12 : 1675 (17%)
    13 : 1245 (12%)
    14 :  804  (8%)
    15 :  411  (4%)
    16 :  194  (2%)
    17 :   50  (0%)
    18 :   18  (0%)
    19 :    4  (0%)
    20 :    1  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 1 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 15
    Top 20%: 13
    Top 33%: 12
    Top 50%: 11
    Top 67%: 10


    Test for Sidereal with 2 bonus dice
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    3  :    1  (0%)
    4  :    6  (0%)
    5  :   14  (0%)
    6  :   55  (1%)
    7  :  181  (2%)
    8  :  382  (4%)
    9  :  745  (7%)
    10 : 1194 (12%)
    11 : 1564 (16%)
    12 : 1729 (17%)
    13 : 1585 (16%)
    14 : 1108 (11%)
    15 :  751  (8%)
    16 :  408  (4%)
    17 :  192  (2%)
    18 :   64  (1%)
    19 :   17  (0%)
    20 :    3  (0%)
    21 :    1  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 2 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 16
    Top 20%: 14
    Top 33%: 13
    Top 50%: 12
    Top 67%: 11


    Test for Sidereal with 3 bonus dice
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    4  :    1  (0%)
    5  :    6  (0%)
    6  :   24  (0%)
    7  :   84  (1%)
    8  :  213  (2%)
    9  :  460  (5%)
    10 :  915  (9%)
    11 : 1249 (12%)
    12 : 1547 (15%)
    13 : 1673 (17%)
    14 : 1471 (15%)
    15 : 1114 (11%)
    16 :  645  (6%)
    17 :  350  (4%)
    18 :  171  (2%)
    19 :   50  (0%)
    20 :   15  (0%)
    21 :   10  (0%)
    22 :    2  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 3 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 17
    Top 20%: 15
    Top 33%: 14
    Top 50%: 13
    Top 67%: 12


    Test for Sidereal with 4 bonus dice
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    5  :    1  (0%)
    6  :   15  (0%)
    7  :   44  (0%)
    8  :  119  (1%)
    9  :  312  (3%)
    10 :  560  (6%)
    11 :  951 (10%)
    12 : 1356 (14%)
    13 : 1554 (16%)
    14 : 1531 (15%)
    15 : 1318 (13%)
    16 : 1037 (10%)
    17 :  614  (6%)
    18 :  350  (4%)
    19 :  149  (1%)
    20 :   67  (1%)
    21 :   14  (0%)
    22 :    7  (0%)
    23 :    1  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 4 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 18
    Top 20%: 16
    Top 33%: 15
    Top 50%: 14
    Top 67%: 12


    Test for Sidereal with 5 bonus dice
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    3  :    1  (0%)
    5  :    2  (0%)
    6  :    7  (0%)
    7  :   19  (0%)
    8  :   59  (1%)
    9  :  184  (2%)
    10 :  319  (3%)
    11 :  652  (7%)
    12 : 1033 (10%)
    13 : 1330 (13%)
    14 : 1578 (16%)
    15 : 1521 (15%)
    16 : 1275 (13%)
    17 :  952 (10%)
    18 :  530  (5%)
    19 :  330  (3%)
    20 :  131  (1%)
    21 :   54  (1%)
    22 :   17  (0%)
    23 :    4  (0%)
    24 :    2  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 5 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 19
    Top 20%: 17
    Top 33%: 15
    Top 50%: 14
    Top 67%: 13


    Test for Solar
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    2  :    4  (0%)
    3  :   15  (0%)
    4  :   55  (1%)
    5  :  134  (1%)
    6  :  278  (3%)
    7  :  518  (5%)
    8  :  745  (7%)
    9  :  990 (10%)
    10 : 1186 (12%)
    11 : 1240 (12%)
    12 : 1113 (11%)
    13 : 1063 (11%)
    14 :  872  (9%)
    15 :  679  (7%)
    16 :  438  (4%)
    17 :  287  (3%)
    18 :  191  (2%)
    19 :  102  (1%)
    20 :   46  (0%)
    21 :   25  (0%)
    22 :   11  (0%)
    23 :    5  (0%)
    24 :    2  (0%)
    25 :    1  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 7 double number: 10 bonus dice: 10 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 17
    Top 20%: 14
    Top 33%: 13
    Top 50%: 11
    Top 67%: 10


    Test for Solar with Excellent Strike
    Code:
    Out of 10000 attempts
    3  :    3  (0%)
    4  :   13  (0%)
    5  :   49  (0%)
    6  :  118  (1%)
    7  :  234  (2%)
    8  :  482  (5%)
    9  :  760  (8%)
    10 :  934  (9%)
    11 : 1161 (12%)
    12 : 1288 (13%)
    13 : 1240 (12%)
    14 : 1106 (11%)
    15 :  879  (9%)
    16 :  626  (6%)
    17 :  446  (4%)
    18 :  295  (3%)
    19 :  200  (2%)
    20 :  101  (1%)
    21 :   31  (0%)
    22 :   17  (0%)
    23 :   11  (0%)
    24 :    4  (0%)
    26 :    2  (0%)
    ----
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 7 double number: 10 bonus dice: 8 bonus successes: 1 dice min/max 2/10
    Top  5%: 18
    Top 20%: 15
    Top 33%: 14
    Top 50%: 12
    Top 67%: 11


    Summary of the top results for each
    Code:
    ​Test for Sidereal wtih 0 bonus dice
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 0 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 14
    Top 20%: 12
    Top 33%: 11
    Top 50%: 10
    Top 67%: 9
    
    Test for Sidereal with 1 bonus dice
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 1 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 15
    Top 20%: 13
    Top 33%: 12
    Top 50%: 11
    Top 67%: 10
    
    Test for Sidereal with 2 bonus dice
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 2 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 16
    Top 20%: 14
    Top 33%: 13
    Top 50%: 12
    Top 67%: 11
    
    Test for Sidereal with 3 bonus dice
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 3 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 17
    Top 20%: 15
    Top 33%: 14
    Top 50%: 13
    Top 67%: 12
    
    Test for Sidereal with 4 bonus dice
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 4 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 18
    Top 20%: 16
    Top 33%: 15
    Top 50%: 14
    Top 67%: 12
    
    Test for Sidereal with 5 bonus dice
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 4 double number: 10 bonus dice: 5 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 19
    Top 20%: 17
    Top 33%: 15
    Top 50%: 14
    Top 67%: 13
    
    Test for Solar
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 7 double number: 10 bonus dice: 10 bonus successes: 0 dice min/max 1/10
    Top  5%: 17
    Top 20%: 14
    Top 33%: 13
    Top 50%: 11
    Top 67%: 10
    
    Test for Solar with Excellent Strike
    Number of dice: 13 target number: 7 double number: 10 bonus dice: 8 bonus successes: 1 dice min/max 2/10
    Top  5%: 18
    Top 20%: 15
    Top 33%: 14
    Top 50%: 12
    Top 67%: 11
    Current implementation of Sidereal Excellency is: Spend 1m to reduce TN by (to a minimum of 4), spend 1m to add dice (to a maximum of Essence).

    So- the trickiness

    In an ideal world, the Sidereal Excellency increases reliability at the relative tradeoff of having a lower ceiling than the Solar Excellency.
    As the Sidereal Excellency scales up with Essence, however, it starts to shoot past the Solar in both reliability and ceiling- *Technically* the Solar with 23 dice has a higher ceiling than the Sidereal with 18, but in experienced terms, the Sidereal is going to be almost always rolling higher.

    Solutions:
    * Sidereals don't get bonus dice, they only get TN reduction.
    PROS: Easy.
    CONS: The Sidereal becomes materially worse on average than the Solar- they don't gain reliability at the cost of a lower ceiling. Also, it's going to feel very 'samey' across different abilities.

    * Sidereals get (Essence) points to distribute across TN and bonus dice; at Essence 5, they effectively have 2 bonus dice.
    PROS: Best fit for the 'trade lower ceiling for increased competence'
    CONS: ...at Essence 5. Until then, the Sidereal is notably worse off. Also, more math tricky.

    Thoughts?

  • wastevens
    replied
    Originally posted by Aranfan View Post

    How so? I don't really see how.
    Because Martial Arts, that we have seen, tend not to have diceadders.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aranfan
    replied
    Originally posted by BadassOverlord View Post

    While this makes perfect sense within the context of excellencies and the hypothetical Sidereal charmset, it seems to interact poorly with a great number of martial art charms. Which is ironic, given how Sids are supposed to be &quot;masters of martial arts&quot; or whatever.
    How so? I don't really see how.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied
    As an alternative possibility, the fateful itself as a TN modifying charm doesn't exist, but is used to reflect thatv partly in place of where solars add lots of double and reroll tricks, sidereal exalted add TN fuckery.

    My point is more, it's a bit premature to declare doom and falling skies when their book is probably like three or four years out, and I'd rather they not get an air of negativity about how their charm set is fundamentally broken without even a single actual glimpse, so I'm intending to be the voice of reason and patience.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghosthead
    replied
    I think you could consider whether, even *if* you could bring Solars and Sidereals to where they are supposed to be relative to each other by "Powerful Excellency up front; weaker followup Charms" that's where you want Sidereals to be at in terms of how much the players have an incentive to engage with the weaker followup Charms (Are these weaker things after a powerful Excellency going to build enthusiasm to engage with them and use them?). This is a question for writers / developers of Sidereals more than just committing to a powerful Excellency and then trying to make everything else fit regardless, without having that powerful Excellency up for grabs to renegotiate. Just because they could make "strong Excellency, weak follow up Charms" work doesn't mean it's the best path.

    (I'm sort of repeating myself here I know).

    Leave a comment:


  • wastevens
    replied
    Originally posted by Meianno Yuurei View Post
    Honestly I think getting fussed over the excellency is symptomatic of 2e, wherein every single charm had to be crippled in order to sate the interminable hunger of Solaroids for supremacy. A more powerful on paper Excellency with less powerful, efficient, convenient, or if really need be all three, bread and butter charm effects would, I think, leave Sidereals at a proper position. But I think white rooming every single charm to be as inferior as you feel Sidereals need to be as a whole will leave them far below where you predict.
    I don't think looking at mean and median values of generic actions is not comparable terms of what and how they speak to the setting to weird edge cases or 'Well, if a Sidereal gets charms X, Y and Z they can edge out a Solar one time in twenty!' which could raise fervor in the past.

    If you disagree with that assessment, cool. We have different opinions, de gustibus non est disputandum and all that. The QC Sidereal Excellency will work fine.

    Personally, it feels a bit wrong to me that an Essence 3 Sidereal will beat a Solar in a clash four times out of five, and that an Essence 5 Sidereal will do so better than 95% of the time- before you start to bring weapon accuracy or any other shenanigans into the mix, while also under spending said Solar. That perturbs me; to me, it undercuts the thesis of the Solars as the embodiment of human arete and perfection for no especial gain.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broken Masque
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    It's Sidereals, there's going to be regular shitfits over something the book whatever they do.
    Hopefully my fellow Sidereal fans have mellowed over the years like I have... but I also anticipate the Sidereals book upsetting people in some way when it comes out.

    And I'll remind out to the others that Sidereals can still be "weaker" without literally being weaker in every single way than Solars. Frankly I can't believe people are still using "they're better than Solars!" as a legit point of critique anymore, since I seem to remember something about 3e moving us away from that mindset.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meianno Yuurei
    replied
    Honestly I think getting fussed over the excellency is symptomatic of 2e, wherein every single charm had to be crippled in order to sate the interminable hunger of Solaroids for supremacy. A more powerful on paper Excellency with less powerful, efficient, convenient, or if really need be all three, bread and butter charm effects would, I think, leave Sidereals at a proper position. But I think white rooming every single charm to be as inferior as you feel Sidereals need to be as a whole will leave them far below where you predict.

    Leave a comment:


  • BadassOverlord
    replied
    Originally posted by wastevens View Post

    The Fateful Excellency
    While this makes perfect sense within the context of excellencies and the hypothetical Sidereal charmset, it seems to interact poorly with a great number of martial art charms. Which is ironic, given how Sids are supposed to be "masters of martial arts" or whatever.

    Leave a comment:


  • wastevens
    replied
    Originally posted by AtG View Post
    You should precisely define the dice cap for static ratings (including from Charms other than the Excellency).
    The Fateful Excellency

    Like the Solars, the Sidereal Exalted enjoy a fundamental power called the Fateful Excellencies. By pouring Essence into her endeavors, she brings to bear the forces of fate and destiny, aligning them with her will. The Fateful Excellency does not provide the same degree of raw strength as the Excellencies of the Solars; the power of the Fateful Excellencies come from twisting the odds to the favor of the Sidereal.

    Sidereals may use the Fateful Excellency to enhance any rolled action or application of a static value. To enhance a rolled action, the Sidereals spends two motes per target number reduction, as fate bends to her will and makes the desired action more likely to succeed. She cannot reduce the target number of an action by more than (Ability / 2, round up). No combination of effects can ever reduce a target number to less than 4.

    Unlike the Excellencies of the Solars, the Fateful Excellency does not enhance the Sidereal’s natural skill or talent. As such, it does not add dice to rolled actions. Other magics of the Chosen of the Maidens may do so, however. Sidereal Exalted cannot add more than (Essence) dice contributed from Charms or other magical effects. The only exception is for those effects which add ‘non-Charm’ dice to certain rolls. If a Charm adds successes, treat each added success as adding two dice for the purpose of dice-adding limitations.

    When using the Fateful Excellency to modify a static value, the Sidereal spends 2 motes per point of increase, to a maximum bonus of of (Ability / 2, round up). Other magics of the Sidereal Exalted may allow her to increase a static value beyond this limit. Sidereal Exalted cannot increase a static value beyond (Ability). The only exception is for those effects which add ‘non-Charm’ increases.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neall
    replied
    Originally posted by putty View Post
    The sidereal excellency is too strong for a player character with a bucket of charms, but its fine for antagonist quick characters where their powers are even more abstracted than a normal PC. Luckily, Vance confirmed that all the antagonist excellencies are provisional and subject to change.
    This is probably the best option, to be honest. Scion relies on an absolute minimum of TN and bonus dice trickery and divorces player-facing mechanics from antagonists for precisely this reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • AtG
    replied
    You should precisely define the dice cap for static ratings (including from Charms other than the Excellency).

    Leave a comment:


  • wastevens
    replied
    So, I think I've solved this problem to my personal satisfaction.

    Fateful Excellency: You can reduce your TN by a maximum of (Ability/2, round up), at a cost of 2m per TN. No combination of effects can reduce your TN to less than 4. You can increase static ratings by a maximum of (Ability/2), at a cost of 2m per increase.

    The Fateful Excellency does not add dice, however other Sidereal Charms may. Sidereals are limited to adding a maximum of (Essence) additional dice from Charms.

    Reasoning:

    With these numbers, Sidereals slightly underperform Solars are comparable levels of development within an ability, but also undercut them on cost. That feels like a reasonable compromise.
    By removing dice as a default 'thing' from the Fateful Excellency, but allowing them to be added via other Charms, it provides the option to give Sidereals targeted boosts where they simply need to dice-thwomp more heavily, without forcing a general competency increase that is not always desired. It also means that the Sidereal QC excellency can still serve as a useful approximation, without having to define where exactly those dice are coming from.

    Leave a comment:


  • wastevens
    replied
    Out of curiousity (and because it forced me to rewrite everything to accomodate Charms in a more extensible fashion...)

    Mortal, Essence: 1, Dicepool: 10 with Charms: ()
    Code:
    Attack with internal modifier 3
    Top  5%: 11
    Top 20%: 8
    Top 33%: 7
    Top 50%: 6
    Top 67%: 5


    Solar, Essence: 1, Dicepool: 10 with Charms: (SolarExcellency)
    Code:
    Attack with internal modifier 3
    Top  5%: 17
    Top 20%: 14
    Top 33%: 13
    Top 50%: 11
    Top 67%: 10


    Solar, Essence: 1, Dicepool: 10 with Charms: (SolarExcellency, ExcellentStrike)
    Code:
    Attack with internal modifier 3
    Top  5%: 18
    Top 20%: 15
    Top 33%: 14
    Top 50%: 13
    Top 67%: 11


    Solar, Essence: 3, Dicepool: 10 with Charms: (SolarExcellency, ExcellentStrike, RisingSunSlash)
    Code:
    Attack with internal modifier 3
    Top  5%: 21
    Top 20%: 18
    Top 33%: 16
    Top 50%: 15
    Top 67%: 13


    Solar, Essence: 5, Dicepool: 10 with Charms: (SolarExcellency, ExcellentStrike, RisingSunSlash)
    Code:
    Attack with internal modifier 3
    Top  5%: 22
    Top 20%: 19
    Top 33%: 17
    Top 50%: 16
    Top 67%: 14


    Sidenote: I'd been underestimating Rising Sun Slash. (It has a proc rate of about 67%)

    Leave a comment:


  • Lanaya
    replied
    Originally posted by wastevens View Post
    That said, we've gotten a fair smattering of what Essence 4+ Solar Charms look like- and there's not very much in the way of extending their expected success range. They tend to be more on the lines of 'voted most likely to be scarier to get hit by' rather than 'voted most likely to hit'

    Which is good! That helps prevent elder Exalts from becoming passively invincible or passively deadly.

    But I think it also means we can't just take as granted that Solars at arbitrary Essence will reach a position of exceeding the expected successes of the as-written Fateful Excellency at Essence 3+.
    I'm not trying to argue that high essence Solars will or won't be able to get more successes on any given roll than similarly high essence Sidereals. I'm saying that it doesn't matter. Even if Sidereals do end up capable of rolling 18 average successes on a melee attack compared to a Solar's 15, I'd still much rather have those 18 successes thrown at me by a Sidereal, enhanced by whatever melee charms they end up getting, than take a fully buffed up Iron Whirlwind Attack to the face, especially since 15 successes is still going to be enough to blow past very nearly any defence you could possibly muster. Likewise, I'd much rather have Seven Shadow Evasion than the ability to get arbitrarily high successes on a Dex+Dodge roll. The only place where Sidereals getting the most raw successes might make them overpowered compared to Solars is craft, and there's not much chance of anyone getting more or better dice tricks than Solars for that.

    Leave a comment:

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