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  • Isator Levi
    started a topic Exalted and childbirth

    Exalted and childbirth

    I've been watching a lot of the BBC drama "Call the Midwife" recently. It's got me thinking a lot about the subject of childbirth.

    ​Since most of my interests tend to intersect with Exalted in my considerations at some point, and since Exalted has some particular factors concerning the subject, it has me speculating on a few things.

    Discussion of opinions would be all right, but I would also be interested if anybody who knows a bit more about the subject would be able to lend any perspective.

    I find that the biggest question on my mind concerns the line that previous Editions gave about how the Exalted never die as a result of childbirth.

    How do people think this might relate to subjects of certain complications? Do they simply never happen for the Exalted? Are they the kind of thing where the danger is going to be heavily shifted towards the foetus? Say, if there's a shoulder presentation and nobody around or qualified to perform a caesarean section, well, that baby is definitely not going to make it, but then there's the question of what is going to happen to a mother who cannot get it out and apparently cannot die from the body trying to force it.

    I wonder if the notion of them never dying might be rolled back a bit, or else should be looked upon as not so rigid that it would extend to even unbelievable cases.

    Indeed, as rules go, perhaps it would be better for me (and everybody else) to look on it less in terms of a description of the capabilities of the Exalted and more as a proscription on what might happen to player characters in a game. Although there is the question of the occasional non-player character...

    Or things that might be logical results of occurrences in play. Suppose somebody was playing Tepet Ejava's mother, insisting on being on the battlefield at the height of pregnancy, and some soldier or Anathema gets a lucky shot in that the Storyteller thinks would lend to the (acceptable to the group) dramatic complication of something going terribly wrong with the birth.

    But I'm digressing a bit, my main interest was in developing an image of the setting.

    With all of that in mind, I suppose there are a couple of other matters: on the one hand, some of these complications are rare in any case, the odds of that in any given Exalted pregnancy are naturally small; on the other, the Exalted can often be involved in dramatic events that could result in some late term complications.

    Anyway, do people have thoughts? Has anybody ever played a pregnant character, or in a game where the players were associated with one, and anything that could have led to complications coming up?

  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Fair enough, my apologies. I suppose I'll bow out of this thread for the time being.

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  • Lioness
    replied
    Careful, this looks like it's crossed a line from trying to understand his position into taunting.

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  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    You're misreading my post. I'm not saying you suck, I'm saying your situation does. If you genuinely find yourself disturbed by fictional intersperses hybrids (and, apparently, from your latest post, real ones - does that include Ligers and Mules and Zorses?), finding media that doesn't trigger that for you must be a challenge, and frankly, I'm surprised you got into P&P RPGs at all.

    Anyway, I'm off to run my Exalted session in which the entire crew of PCs is some manner of God-Blooded. TTYL.

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  • Brind'amour
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    You were the one who said you were bothered by its presence in PnP. Does Steven Universe make you shudder with revulsion as well? He's half-human, half-spacefaring hologram-golem.

    Don't get me wrong, you're free to be squicked out by whatever you want. It must suck to have an aversion to something so pervasive, though; it's the media equivalent of a gluten allergy.
    I said P&P because this is what this thread is about, but to be fair I am grossed out by it in folklore or real life too.
    Sorry I don't know who Steven Universe is.
    Hahaha I'm free to be squicked out by whatever I want but it sucks xD this is like saying "no offense but..." or "I'm not a racist but..." smh
    I really don't wanna argue about this but you just went right at it.

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  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    You were the one who said you were bothered by its presence in PnP. Does Steven Universe make you shudder with revulsion as well? He's half-human, half-spacefaring hologram-golem.

    Don't get me wrong, you're free to be squicked out by whatever you want. It must suck to have an aversion to something so pervasive, though; it's the media equivalent of a gluten allergy.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 09-11-2016, 11:07 AM.

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  • Brind'amour
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    I'm also talking about biologically. Brind'amour expressed being disturbed at the notion of humans and "non-humans" making babies together in RPGs, but one of the examples he listed is a subset of humans.
    Yeah I get what you said before, I was aware of that. There is a lot of this stuff in old and young cultures.
    But so what? I can't be disturbed by it? So you claim that my feelings and ideas about something are wrong, just because it's been in folklore?
    Don't be hatin, dude...


    "Metaphysically and spiritually, sure, but I'm sure there are lots of non-beastman humans in Exalted who consider them sub-human and would consider mating with one to be bestiality. Especially in areas that are Immaculate-influenced or have fought beastmen a lot[...]"


    Exactly.
    Last edited by Brind'amour; 09-11-2016, 09:11 AM.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    It's damaging to Lunar NPCs. I looked at Blood and Salt earlier and Mnalilf Nganto's backstory gives us an idea of how pelagothropes live, her exaltation then skips 230 years so she can fuck out a small army and jump to essence 6.
    That, on top of her utterly non-functional and illegal combos. Some wouldn't even be usable even if you played under the newer, relaxed rules, because, say, they modify a full dodge and an attack. Good luck trying to put those together in 1e.

    Non-sequitur, to be certain, but damn, the person who wrote her up had no idea how to make combos, and it seems, even how the Charms in them actually worked. It's bent and warped my head in some Pavlovian way whenever I start to think about Mnalif Nganto. Also, how she seems to have so many shark motifs, but her spirit shape is a barracuda...

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  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by Thesaurasaurus View Post
    Also I will be very, very happy if this edition's portrayal of Lunars avoids any sort of "fuck-charts for victory!" paradigm. Even setting aside all the potential grossness or awkwardness at the gaming table, I have no idea how the hell you're meant to incorporate that into an in-game span of less than a century or so.
    It's damaging to Lunar NPCs. I looked at Blood and Salt earlier and Mnalilf Nganto's backstory gives us an idea of how pelagothropes live, her exaltation then skips 230 years so she can fuck out a small army and jump to essence 6.

    Leave a comment:


  • Erinys
    replied
    Since some Fair Folk and Wyld mutants look half-animal, I assume many people can't tell beastfolk and faerie and mutants apart, and lump them all together as "hostile killer monsters from the Wyld."

    Fae can use their magic to beguile mortals into mating them anyway, but beastfolk can't, even if they want to. I think the Wizard is right -- they'd probably be as rarely attracted to baselines humans as the other way around. I imagine that attraction is more likely where people of different sorts live together in integrated communities, rather than separate tribes.


    That article was fascinating if disturbing reading, BTW.
    Last edited by Erinys; 09-10-2016, 11:49 AM.

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  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    I'm also talking about biologically. Brind'amour expressed being disturbed at the notion of humans and "non-humans" making babies together in RPGs, but one of the examples he listed is a subset of humans.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 09-10-2016, 11:25 AM.

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  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard
    Beastfolk are human, dude.
    Metaphysically and spiritually, sure, but I'm sure there are lots of non-beastman humans in Exalted who consider them sub-human and would consider mating with one to be bestiality. Especially in areas that are Immaculate-influenced or have fought beastmen a lot.
    And there are probably beastmen who consider non-beastmen to not be the same as them and not something they'd want to mate with. Ugh, they're all pink and hairless, it's disgusting.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Originally posted by Brind'amour View Post
    I have to say I always found it quite strange and disturbing (no matter wich P&P system) when a human and a non-human get together and have a baby.
    It's older than PnP; it's as old as myth.

    Moreover, most of Exalted's are pretty reasonable.

    Originally posted by Brind'amour View Post
    No matter if it is a demon…
    What about Merlin?

    Originally posted by Brind'amour View Post
    …god…
    What about Heracles? Or Jesus?

    Originally posted by Brind'amour View Post
    …fairy…
    What about the Milesians and Tuatha Dé Danann?

    Originally posted by Brind'amour View Post
    …orc…
    Closest equivalent here would likely be beastmen, but…

    Originally posted by Brind'amour View Post
    …or beastmen.
    Beastfolk are human, dude.

    Furthermore, what are your thoughts on Sun-Touched, Star-Blessed, et cetera., the children crafted by Neomahs, Wyld mutants, or people who have been altered by the Essence-flows of a demesne?
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 09-10-2016, 09:29 AM.

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  • Brind'amour
    replied
    I have to say I always found it quite strange and disturbing (no matter wich P&P system) when a human and a non-human get together and have a baby.
    No matter if it is a demon, god, fairy, orc or beastmen.
    Was never my thing, never will be, but it is present in this world(s).
    My charakters having children with like beings somehow is okay.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post

    For me, not addressing in any concrete way the physiological realities of pregnancy (see: https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy...other-and-baby for example) elides the actuality of it.
    So we're in agreement; wonderful!

    ​I feel like clarifying that my prior post was concerned with ideas of being impregnated with something like a demon baby that needs to eat its way out of the womb or something.

    Originally posted by Lucy Darling
    the numerous ways that act still echoes in my flesh (not just the obvious, the hidden chimerism and the six monthly blood tests and so on as well).
    That's the kind of thing which is why I often advocate for the idea of it being advisable for the Dragon Blooded to wait a certain period between pregnancies.

    Originally posted by Lucy Darling
    I couldn't pass up the opportunity to link that wonderful essay.
    I shall give it a look, since the whole thing is a subject of interest to me, particularly since my Biomedical Science module was entirely concerned with a case study about pregnancy complications.

    Leave a comment:

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