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  • Euhemerism

    Considering that the gods are actually real within The World, how does the concept of Euhemerism come into being.

    On a more crucial note, My research has indicated to me that early Christians used the arguments of Euhemerism as a way of turnig people away from the so called pagan gods and into their own cult. What changes would be necessary to keep things the same without the tool of Euhemerism?

    I ask this principally because I am unfamiliar with the concept at large, although I am aware of some examples like how Neit/Athena was changed into St Catherine and Horus/Perseus became St George.


    How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
    -Zhuangzi

  • #2
    Well, that would depend upon how Saints are treated in Scion and how exactly the god was euhumerised.

    It could vary from the euhumerization doing absolutely nothing to the Saints being Mantles that some gods have to a whole pantheon with some serious identity issues.

    And the gods weren't always euhumerized into Saints, either. I know that Odin, Thor and Baldur at the very least were said to be sorcerors who had tricked the Scandinavian peoples into worshipping them a long time ago.

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    • #3
      Euhemerization is a really interesting tool used by a bunch of different religious systems when contesting with others. I don't think any changes would need to be made, I can still entirely see the writers of The Red Book of Hergest, for example, still presenting the Welsh Pantheon as incredibly human, if powerful, people instead of out and out Deities. Fate is still a issue for the Pantheons, so, even though the Gods are real, they might not want to risk substantial changes to their being by showing up to shout about the process. So, Llew Llaw Gyffes or Awawn isn't likely to show up to correct the writer of The Red Book.

      If you are interested in euhemerization though, just like Crying mentioned, there is a ton of differences in the details. For example, some figures are made into Saints, such as is suspected to have happened with Brigid. However, in other cases Deities are simply made into powerful magicians as Crying noted with the Norse. The Irish Pantheon in general gets demoted to Kings (such as Lir being demoted from the sea down to a king) or slotted into Christian cosmology through some... I would call it borderline heretical theology. (Fun stuff though, they never get called on it as far as I have read.)

      It also happens both in a later period for Christianity when contact is made with the New World. The Andes in particular have euhemerization going on, or, attempted to be pushed on the population. (it doesn't work awesomely, things get totally out of hand there, it's fascinating) I'm fairly sure it also happened with other religious systems, however most of the examples I know of are demonization instead of euhemerization, such as the Persians ruling the Greek Gods all malignant demonic entities.

      But still, really fun topic! Crying is totally right too that this creates an awesome situation with Mantles. Or, well, a really messy situation with Mantles, but it's awesome for stories.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ostarion View Post
        Considering that the gods are actually real within The World, how does the concept of Euhemerism come into being.
        Like monotheism, I imagine it'd be an (effective) culture-jamming tactic.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Crying View Post
          Well, that would depend upon how Saints are treated in Scion and how exactly the god was euhumerised.

          It could vary from the euhumerization doing absolutely nothing to the Saints being Mantles that some gods have to a whole pantheon with some serious identity issues.

          And the gods weren't always euhumerized into Saints, either. I know that Odin, Thor and Baldur at the very least were said to be sorcerors who had tricked the Scandinavian peoples into worshipping them a long time ago.


          Well I suppose changing too much about that would drastically affect the outcomes of certain historical events. It just seems like something that hasn't been discussed much so I was wondering what was thought about it in this community.


          I also think that the god's themselves would be more culturally bound and be against such stealing of their identities that euhemerization generally entails. I can't imagine the Norse or Greek Gods going lightly into sainthood of an upstart new fangled thing.(from what I know which is very little)


          How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
          -Zhuangzi

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
            Like monotheism, I imagine it'd be an (effective) culture-jamming tactic.
            Basically.

            Euhemerization doesn't precisely exist in Scion per se, since on some level Gods and Heroes actually did the stuff they're accorded to, even if it gets overwritten or rewritten by Fate.

            Since a mantle is a thing, you can steal it from another God, however.


            Neall Raemonn Price
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Neall View Post

              Basically.

              Euhemerization doesn't precisely exist in Scion per se, since on some level Gods and Heroes actually did the stuff they're accorded to, even if it gets overwritten or rewritten by Fate.

              Since a mantle is a thing, you can steal it from another God, however.
              That reminds me,Ouranos being overtaken by Chronus and he being overtaken by Zeus,or Isis stealing Ra's name. Were those examples of mantles being stolen?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                That reminds me,Ouranos being overtaken by Chronus and he being overtaken by Zeus,or Isis stealing Ra's name. Were those examples of mantles being stolen?
                While the Greek succession line could be those guys all stealing the Mantle of 'leader of the Theoi' from each other or something, I kind of doubt it. And I'm sure that Isis' duping of Ra has nothing to do with Mantles.

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                • #9
                  So, hoping this isn't thread necromancy after a week as I haven't yet appeased the Baron, but one thing I gotta ask about this: How exactly would it happen? I mean, even assuming that the various gods and spirits and such are more subtle than the myths make them seem, you'd think they'd ​somehow​ intervene if someone is culturally jamming them. I'd have thought if you went to Japan and told people who make offerings to the kami of a lake "No, cut that out, you don't worship lakes," then the lake kami would take offense. Unless I'm missing something? I admit I'm not sure if that's actually how it's done. I imagine there's more to it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CreepyShutIn View Post
                    So, hoping this isn't thread necromancy after a week as I haven't yet appeased the Baron, but one thing I gotta ask about this: How exactly would it happen? I mean, even assuming that the various gods and spirits and such are more subtle than the myths make them seem, you'd think they'd ​somehow​ intervene if someone is culturally jamming them. I'd have thought if you went to Japan and told people who make offerings to the kami of a lake "No, cut that out, you don't worship lakes," then the lake kami would take offense. Unless I'm missing something? I admit I'm not sure if that's actually how it's done. I imagine there's more to it.
                    Gaius Iulius Caesar conquers a hypothetical ethnic group that practices Kami worship. After the military and political subjugation, the Roman priests you come in. "Hey, you know your Susano-wo, the storm god with a bad temper? He's the same guy as our Zeus. Some of your gods are just kings and saints who did cool stuff. That oughta make your forced conversion a little less awful!"

                    So, our hypothetical tribe ends up worshipping the Theoi under the names of various kami. The Romans might need to introduce some changes into the group's traditional religious practices—Gods aren't super picky about that sort of thing, but they do care about it.

                    What does Susano-wo do when some upstart deity jacks his swagger and his worshippers? Getting a Band of Scions to teach the Romans a lesson is a good start.
                    Last edited by Robert Vance; 12-11-2016, 10:14 PM.


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