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How does the Abrahamic Faiths have power in the Scion World?

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  • How does the Abrahamic Faiths have power in the Scion World?

    Now we've already learned that there will not be any Judaeo / Christian / Muslim type pantheon in the new Scion. Now the question is in a world where Gods are real (along with magic, mythological creatures, Titanspawn etc...) then how could have these religions survived to be the largest in the world? How could have these faiths almost eliminate the worship of a number of different paganistic faiths? Only the Japanese, Indian and Chinese Pantheons seems to have a large group of worship in the modern day while most other pagan religions have been relegated to small fringe groups of worshipers. First of all, if the Abrahamic faiths give no power then they would have not been able to become so dominant as the Pagan gods and servitors give REAL power, not empty promises. So the only way I can see Scion working is that A. It is an alternate modern time where the Pagan religions are still widely worshiped worldwide (Aka Think Percy Jackson) or B. The world is much like our own thus the Abrahamic faiths despite having NO POWER WHATSOEVER became the world's most dominant religion. How will Scion address this inconsistency?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Darkfire16 View Post
    Now we've already learned that there will not be any Judaeo / Christian / Muslim type pantheon in the new Scion. Now the question is in a world where Gods are real (along with magic, mythological creatures, Titanspawn etc...) then how could have these religions survived to be the largest in the world? How could have these faiths almost eliminate the worship of a number of different paganistic faiths? Only the Japanese, Indian and Chinese Pantheons seems to have a large group of worship in the modern day while most other pagan religions have been relegated to small fringe groups of worshipers. First of all, if the Abrahamic faiths give no power then they would have not been able to become so dominant as the Pagan gods and servitors give REAL power, not empty promises. So the only way I can see Scion working is that A. It is an alternate modern time where the Pagan religions are still widely worshiped worldwide (Aka Think Percy Jackson) or B. The world is much like our own thus the Abrahamic faiths despite having NO POWER WHATSOEVER became the world's most dominant religion. How will Scion address this inconsistency?


    Well one of the big reasons could be that the Gods generally retreated from the mortal world for thousands of years and just left mortals to do their own thing? They might have popped back in once in a while to spawn the occasional hero, but they weren't making the same grand display of themselves that they used to. And most of the old religions were wiped out not because of willing conversion, but because "heretics" were forced to convert either through torture or the threat of death. And since the gods weren't answering their prayers anymore, most of these victims either lost faith in them, or they were killed by the Abrahamic zealots.


    Also, just because the Abrahamic faiths doesn't give any power, doesn't mean the Titans don't. It was pretty obvious that the Titan of Light in 1st edition was supposed to be an allegory for the Abrahamic faiths by being the one and only being of worship, being too bright to look upon, and literally having angels serve him. Second edition might have another Titan who operates in the same fashion that was backing them throughout history.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 12-18-2016, 11:00 PM.

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    • #3
      Scion's history didn't happen in quite the same way as it did in the real world. Among other things, "pagan" faiths are more popular.

      Anyway, I don't think anyone said the Abrahamic faiths don't have any power. They're probably not all-powerful, but there'll be something there.

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      • #4
        How many times is this thread going to pop up, god damn

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Crying View Post
          How many times is this thread going to pop up, god damn
          Probably until the game about world mythologies and religions touches on the biggest ones still around.


          Just call me Lex.

          Female pronouns for me, please.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

            Probably until the game about world mythologies and religions touches on the biggest ones still around.
            But when the thread already exists, why do we have to keep making new ones or debating it in other threads?


            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

              Also, just because the Abrahamic faiths doesn't give any power, doesn't mean the Titans don't. It was pretty obvious that the Titan of Light in 1st edition was supposed to be an allegory for the Abrahamic faiths by being the one and only being of worship, being too bright to look upon, and literally having angels serve him. Second edition might have another Titan who operates in the same fashion that was backing them throughout history.
              I hope we don't see an "Aten 2.0" route taken with 2e. That explanation, from what I remember personally, was only really satisfactory to folks with an axe to grind where the Abrahamic faiths were concerned (read: about half my regular tabletop group).

              It's been mentioned that Scion 2e in in a slightly-alternate universe, seeming to imply that the Abrahamic faiths never quite managed the wholesale overpowering of other religions. At a guess, that may mean that they're competitive with, but not superior to, the other religions. Akin, if you will, to one major auto manufacturer among many such.
              Last edited by yukikaze; 12-19-2016, 12:39 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                But when the thread already exists, why do we have to keep making new ones or debating it in other threads?
                Hey, I'm not making any of them.

                Originally posted by yukikaze View Post

                I hope we don't see an "Aten 2.0" route taken with 2e. That explanation, from what I remember personally, was only really satisfactory to folks with an axe to grind where the Abrahamic faiths were concerned (read: about half my regular tabletop group).

                It's been mentioned that Scion 2e in in a slightly-alternate universe, seeming to imply that the Abrahamic faiths never quite managed the wholesale overpowering of other religions. At a guess, that may mean that they're competitive with, but not superior to, the other religions. Akin, if you will, to one major auto manufacturer among many such.
                I don't either, but I think the 2e fix is going to be "El got a little big for his britches and has a couple different Mantles that make up one-God Pantheons."


                Just call me Lex.

                Female pronouns for me, please.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                  I don't either, but I think the 2e fix is going to be "El got a little big for his britches and has a couple different Mantles that make up one-God Pantheons."
                  I'm dubious that's going to be the answer myself.

                  I have a hunch, though, that whatever the solution, the Abrahamics are not going to deny the existence of other gods. They'll be more henotheistic than exclusively monotheistic.

                  One thing I came across I thought was interesting from Neall:

                  Scion's World is based on our world, albeit with subtle differences (like the small matter of all mythologies being true). The Abrahamic religions might be relatively unchanged, but the mythologies behind them would be significantly altered.


                  Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                  • #10
                    Fate has a sense of humour?

                    That makes sense doesnt it?


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marin View Post

                      I'm dubious that's going to be the answer myself.

                      I have a hunch, though, that whatever the solution, the Abrahamics are not going to deny the existence of other gods. They'll be more henotheistic than exclusively monotheistic.
                      Either of those would be have more nuance and thoughtfulness than 1e's handling of the Abrahamic deity.

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                      • #12

                        Originally posted by yukikaze View Post
                        I hope we don't see an "Aten 2.0" route taken with 2e.
                        Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                        I don't either, but I think the 2e fix is going to be "El got a little big for his britches and has a couple different Mantles that make up one-God Pantheons."
                        Neal has already said that he likes that idea/explanation and that while Aten won't be solely responsible for the idea of monotheism, he will have played a large part in it. I think there was something said about him being responsible for exclusionary monotheism, though that confuses me since all monotheism is exlcusionary.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Crying View Post
                          Neal has already said that he likes that idea/explanation and that while Aten won't be solely responsible for the idea of monotheism, he will have played a large part in it. I think there was something said about him being responsible for exclusionary monotheism, though that confuses me since all monotheism is exlcusionary.
                          I suspect Neall was referencing monolatry and henotheism there.


                          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                          • #14
                            Riffing on the "Fate can change the past through actions in the present" - suppose that the Abrahamic deity[ies] managed in the past to change things [say around 2,000 years ago] so that the worship of the old Gods/Goddesses became mostly forgotten and suppressed [much like Amun worship in historical Egypt]. They have thus enjoyed a couple of millennia of unprecedented power, much like in the real world. Now, cue our current game world in Scion 2nd Edition, where the reactivation of Scions will once again prove the power and ability of the Old Gods, and show the masses of humanity that they aren't mere powerless myths. This causes Fate to change things once again so that the last 2,000 years of monotheism are suddenly ret-conned and suppressed to the point where they are [at best] equal to the rest of the faiths. Knowing that this would be the outcome of Scion creation was the prime reason that the Abrahamic faiths tried so hard to destroy the other worship all around the world in the first place. And so the "All Myths Are True", the "Abrahamic faiths still exist", the "Aten didn't just pull the wool over your eyes" and the "Pantheistic faiths change the World" would all be possible at once, and the direction of the world from this point on is up to the individual GMs.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by marin View Post

                              I'm dubious that's going to be the answer myself.

                              I have a hunch, though, that whatever the solution, the Abrahamics are not going to deny the existence of other gods. They'll be more henotheistic than exclusively monotheistic.

                              One thing I came across I thought was interesting from Neall:

                              Fun fact: The Jews were originally polytheistic. The introduction to monotheism caused them to interpret their entire pantheon as different avatars of the the same entity. YHVH was originally derived from the Hewbrew god of war. Maaaaaybe something like that might be the case here? They just recognize other gods as being an extension of the one divine?
                              Last edited by Nyrufa; 12-19-2016, 06:31 AM.

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