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2nd Edition Shinobi?

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  • 2nd Edition Shinobi?

    So in first edition, the Shinobi are depicted as Titan cultists who have sworn themselves to the Titan of Darkness and pretty much run around assassinating people for their dark master. But it turns out the entire concept of Ninjas being highly trained killing machines is woefully inaccurate to what a real, historical ninja actually did. The two videos listed below go into further depth about this subject.

    I believe it was stated at one point that the pantheons and cultures in 2nd Edition will include a more thorough representation of them, as there wasn't too much research done in 1st edition about them (again, just what I think I remember reading). So can we expect a more accurate representation of certain historical figures?





  • #2
    Ummm I'm pretty sure real ninjas Lao weren't made of darkness and didn't have magic powers. They aren't supposed to represent a real historical group, they are drawing off of idealized pop culture ninjas.


    It is a time for great deeds!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
      Ummm I'm pretty sure real ninjas Lao weren't made of darkness and didn't have magic powers. They aren't supposed to represent a real historical group, they are drawing off of idealized pop culture ninjas.


      Real ninjas did utilize alchemical mixtures and mystical gestures to distract and confuse their enemies, though. So historically speaking, they could be described as having used magic, at least from the point of view of the people at the time. The point I was trying to make, though, is that historical ninjas were more of spies and scouts, not killing machines. Wanted to know if they'd receive a more appropriate representation this time around.

      It might also open the possibility to recruit shinobi followers without engaging in Titan corruption.

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      • #4
        But modern depictions of ninjas have looked the killing the stealthy killing machine aspect, as it is enticing. 1st ed had Shinigami, and that is a more modern idea. The Scion Shinobi weren't even humans were they? So you can just have many types of ninjas, have actual mortals be what you want them to be, the toned down ninjas, and then keep these shadow demons things.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #5
          I'm gonna find SOME way to put Shadowkhan into my games. Titan servitor race, construct demons that serve whatever master, hell maybe a Darkness-using Kami Scion could get some of them serving them.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            But modern depictions of ninjas have looked the killing the stealthy killing machine aspect, as it is enticing. 1st ed had Shinigami, and that is a more modern idea. The Scion Shinobi weren't even humans were they? So you can just have many types of ninjas, have actual mortals be what you want them to be, the toned down ninjas, and then keep these shadow demons things.

            Kind of ambiguous as to whether they were human or not. They started out as a humans, performed some kind of ritual, were then infused with the Titan's power and obtained supernatural abilities. They probably classified into the More than Human category, which were really just a collection of human-like figures that had innate magical abilities.

            As for them taking on the modern media interpretation of them, the 2nd edition of Scion won't use the idea of human belief shaping Legendary figures. This time around, Fate will shape itself according to how those figures behave, so now it's a "reap what you sow" kind of deal.
            Last edited by Nyrufa; 02-06-2017, 09:18 AM.

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            • #7
              Well the Shinobi work as mooks for combat in the game, I think if you want more spie social ninjas then they would work better as actual humans trained as ninjas. The Shinobi seem like soulless monsters in the shape of humans. And I am not saying Legend is being warped by modern day sensibilities. I am saying the game is using those sensibilities when designing these NPCs. Like I was saying Shinigami are modern ideas taken from contact with foreign nations. But it works, the idea of Shinigami are fun. It is kind of like using Folklore and Urban Legends in Scion games, which they often do for NPCs. The gameline has taken a lot of inspiration from modern sensibilities hence why we have Shinobi/Vampires/Shinigami.

              I had more written down but I forgot what it was and the internet ate my first post. :P

              Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
              I'm gonna find SOME way to put Shadowkhan into my games. Titan servitor race, construct demons that serve whatever master, hell maybe a Darkness-using Kami Scion could get some of them serving them.
              Oh yeah they are literally Shadowkhan!


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #8
                Anywho, Nyrufa I think there's room enough in the game setting for the following.
                • A Scion who uses stealth and covert actions in the style of actual historical ninja
                • Historically-accurate ninja that may serve as a follower (Need to get into TitanCorp Pharmaceuticals because they're up to no good? It's easy when the new intern they hired is actually a ninja loyal to a PC)
                • Magically altered shadow-beings, which may be a terminology thing in them being called shinobi.
                Actually I might do that, say that in my version of The World, to divine beings there's a distinction. Shinobi are shadow-magic using beings, may have once been human may just be constructed demons, it's kind of a catch-all category, and 'ninja' refers to people who use stealth and sneaky tactics while looking totally unassuming.


                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                • #9
                  Based on some admittedly questionable sources, it seems that there IS a distinction between:

                  ​1. Ninja; people who practice the art of Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu, a particular set of skills who's name translates as "Way of Invisibility".
                  2. Shinobi; those who specialize in using those skills to end lives.

                  ​Ninja are more likely to be seen as a necessary evil/outlaw anti-hero; while Shinobi are most often the dead-eyed, cold-blooded assassin types. While a Ninja MIGHT be a killer, a Shinobi pretty much always is.


                  "A free society is one in which it is safe to be unpopular."

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                  • #10
                    Incidentally, ninjas are not the only historical (or quasi-historical/semi-mythical) people to combine martial arts with stealth, disguise and rumors of magical power. China had the Lin Kuei ("Forest Demons." Cuba had the Nanigos (there should be a tilde over the Ns, but I can't get my terminal to do that), who were said to turn invisible and walk through walls to kill people in the course of their criminal activities, as well as African-derived religious and magical practices. Voodoo Ninjas! And some others that I can't remember offhand.

                    Dean Shomshak

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