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  • #31
    Originally posted by Neall View Post
    Not all Knacks require Momentum. Only a few do. I'll mark that as a text clarification.
    Thank you, that would be wonderful. If I could recommend, perhaps a line like "Some Knacks require the spending of Momentum" in appropriate places under the "Knack Costs" section.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #32
      Does the Sage knack Blockade of Reason do anything for unvisited scions? It says it protects you against people of lower tiers, but I thought regular mortals and unvisited scions were on the same tier.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by marin View Post

        Well, divine parents, but still.

        On a similar note, Goibniu and Kali are also listed.

        Indeed! On the other side of things, though, Danu and Osanyin seem to have decided this book is a little passe and have gone off to do other things.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by trebius View Post
          Does the Sage knack Blockade of Reason do anything for unvisited scions? It says it protects you against people of lower tiers, but I thought regular mortals and unvisited scions were on the same tier.
          Well, with Blockade of Reason, supernatural lies would still trigger a Clash of Wills, with a decent Enhancement bonus. That could potentially shut down a lot of Trickster type Knacks.

          There are similar situations for Hunter Apex Predator and Judge Lie Detector Knacks at the Origin level, but they don't even get that. So, yeah, don't take them.
          Last edited by HighPriest; 01-27-2018, 10:56 PM.

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          • #35
            I wonder how Guides work at the Origin level. Like, if you were fostered by an Incarnation or Scion of the Tuatha, are they a Connection that gets upgraded to a Guide after the visitation?


            [Ex3] Why Gods Need the Exigence - Plot hooks for Exigent characters of various gods.
            [Ex3] Homebrew Solar Charms - I can see the future, and it is glorious.
            [Ex3] The Glass Library - My Exalted Third Edition Blog (Updated 24/04/2016)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Tiresias View Post
              I wonder how Guides work at the Origin level. Like, if you were fostered by an Incarnation or Scion of the Tuatha, are they a Connection that gets upgraded to a Guide after the visitation?
              I'm assuming Guide is still a birthright, yeah? You pick either 2 Knacks or 4 Birthrights in the Finishing Touches of character creation, so you might just get the straight up guide.

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              • #37
                Is it me, or are PCs going to get hurt, like, a lot? A beat cop, the lowest combat threat presented, is rolling 5 dice to attack. PCs are rolling 5 dice, at most, to defend - probably less considering not every PC is going to max a resilience stat. That's a low-end mook? Someone who is going to hit most PCs most of the time? I realize you're probably going to wipe them out in your own attack as well, but Attack of Attribute + Skill against Defense of Attribute feels incredibly unbalanced towards offense.

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                • #38
                  Well, armor is a thing one should not forget

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by HighPriest View Post
                    Is it me, or are PCs going to get hurt, like, a lot? A beat cop, the lowest combat threat presented, is rolling 5 dice to attack. PCs are rolling 5 dice, at most, to defend - probably less considering not every PC is going to max a resilience stat. That's a low-end mook? Someone who is going to hit most PCs most of the time? I realize you're probably going to wipe them out in your own attack as well, but Attack of Attribute + Skill against Defense of Attribute feels incredibly unbalanced towards offense.
                    It's already reminding me of Aberrant, where if you didn't win initiative, you spend your turn defending because otherwise the character who went first was going to wipe the other out in a single blow. It's not that swingy, but it's definitely tilted to offence.

                    The Eternal Keeper - I'm not sure armour is hugely significant.

                    For one thing, I'm not convinced it's practical to wear it openly at the mortal level. If you're wandering around wearing armour, you're going to get stopped by the police, people aren't going to be willing to talk to you, and it's just going to make everything harder. It's obtrusive in a way that a hidden gun or a sword in a dufflebag isn't. It screams "I'm about to get into a fight". Now, that can be countered by the Concealable tag, but it does limit the armour you can wear. My read is that [Concealable][Soft] armour is probably going to be the default, which raises the difficulty to damage you by 1.

                    Unfortunately, while that's generally really good (At mortal level, that's roughly equivalent to 3 extra defence dice, and will entirely negate the defensive deficit), it's entirely countered if that beat cop uses his [Piercing] handgun. So maybe [Concealable][Hard] should be the default, because it means you can safely take one bullet per combat without taking injuries.

                    Also, big question here: Are Pre-Visitation Scions mortal for the purposes of Lethal damage? The book uses "Mortal" to refer to both the Tier (Which Pre-Visitation Scions are) and the state of not being descended from Gods (Which Pre-Visitation Scions clearly aren't). And Origins includes things like "Mortal Sorcerers" as character options, and they clearly are mortals in both senses of the word.

                    Because if Origins player characters are mortals for the purposes of Lethal damage, then they're going to be taking Persistent conditions from Lethal damage, which they can't get rid of. And handguns bypass Bruised entirely, so they're going straight onto your Injured or Maimed boxes.

                    EDIT: Hmm. I'd have to see how often Weighty comes up, because

                    Kevlar Vest: Soft (1), Concealable, Resistant (Bulletproof), Weighty

                    is very good. A beat cop, rolling 5 dice is looking at needing an above average roll to hurt you even without counting in your defence (Soft armour means that to inflict an injury, you're needing 2 successes total over your defence, and he averages less than a single success). With just 3 dice in your defence (I.e. an average of a single success) you're not quite untouchable to the mooks, but you're not in too much danger from just a couple of beat cops.

                    EDIT: Wait, the Kevlar vest is given as an example, but it's not legal, is it? Soft [1], Concealable [2]. Resistant [2], Weighty [-1]. Total of [4], which is too many tag points.
                    Last edited by Tarion; 01-28-2018, 07:16 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Is it intentional that some pantheons completely lack a specific calling?

                      For example, the Tuatha completely lack the Hunter calling, and the Asir lack Healer... which I discovered because those were my first two character concepts...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TheSarcasticSage View Post
                        Is it intentional that some pantheons completely lack a specific calling?

                        For example, the Tuatha completely lack the Hunter calling, and the Asir lack Healer... which I discovered because those were my first two character concepts...
                        Might be just a side-effect of the actual mythology... are there any major Hunter figures in Tuatha myth that could serve as a patron? It might also simply be that they couldn't fit in every possible God with every Calling in the core book... Idun would probably be the Aesir Healer (or at least an Aesir with the Healer Calling), she's just not written up right now.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Samudra View Post

                          Might be just a side-effect of the actual mythology... are there any major Hunter figures in Tuatha myth that could serve as a patron? It might also simply be that they couldn't fit in every possible God with every Calling in the core book... Idun would probably be the Aesir Healer (or at least an Aesir with the Healer Calling), she's just not written up right now.
                          A Paramedic Scion of Idun was one of my original concepts before this PDF came out, so I definitely agree with you there. Though I'm not as familiar with the Tuatha, off the top of my head, perhaps The Morrigan could get Hunter... I know that she already has 3, but it's not like they stuck to only 3 per god... (Nana’B’Oozoo has only 2, while Freyja has 4)... but if you really wanted to stick to 3, I'm really not seeing how Sage fits her any better then Hunter might (At the Heroic level at least)...

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TheSarcasticSage View Post

                            A Paramedic Scion of Idun was one of my original concepts before this PDF came out, so I definitely agree with you there. Though I'm not as familiar with the Tuatha, off the top of my head, perhaps The Morrigan could get Hunter... I know that she already has 3, but it's not like they stuck to only 3 per god... (Nana’B’Oozoo has only 2, while Freyja has 4)... but if you really wanted to stick to 3, I'm really not seeing how Sage fits her any better then Hunter might (At the Heroic level at least)...
                            I'm pretty certain those two are either errors or have something especially weird going on, cuz as far as I am aware each God is supposed to have only Three Callings. As for Morrigan having Sage, I'm no Tuatha expert but doesn't she have associations with Prophecy? Sage has Prophetic powers, I think, so she may have it for that. I also found her lack of Warrior weird, but this is a question for Watcher : Does the Morrigan ever actually fight or she an example of a War Goddess who's not a Warrior Goddess?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Samudra View Post
                              I'm pretty certain those two are either errors or have something especially weird going on, cuz as far as I am aware each God is supposed to have only Three Callings.
                              Fair enough. I thought so too, but then I read the PDF and I began to wonder if the "Rule" was merely a "Guideline".

                              Originally posted by Samudra View Post
                              As for Morrigan having Sage, I'm no Tuatha expert but doesn't she have associations with Prophecy? Sage has Prophetic powers, I think, so she may have it for that.
                              No. Sage has no Prophetic powers whatsoever at the Heroic level. On the other hand Liminal does, and she has that. Liminal, Lover, and Sage are her 3 Callings. The Morrigan is Inevitable, run from her all you want, try and avoid her all you can, but in the end, she will find you... and that just screams hunter to me...

                              Originally posted by Samudra View Post
                              I also found her lack of Warrior weird, but this is a question for Watcher : Does the Morrigan ever actually fight or she an example of a War Goddess who's not a Warrior Goddess?
                              I too found that weird. I expected Liminal, Hunter and Warrior to be her callings.

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                              • #45
                                Morrigan's mythology is kinda messy. What the best three are is going to depend highly on which take on her (or them) you go with.

                                The problem with Hunter and Warrior as far as I can tell is that she doesn't generally join in the battle or stalk people. Her war association is more because of her giving of omens and portends around death - especially violent death - than her being a particularly noteworthy combatant.

                                It's possible that some of the assignments just make more sense once we start seeing the Hero level Knacks. Master of the World (esp. a more supernatural upgrade of it) being a Sage Knack is the sort of thing I'd expect of a goddess that influences the outcomes of battles. Palace of Memory ramped up to post-cognition levels, and Office Hours via signs and portents to give generals help in making battle plans all seem to be well within her wheelhouse. So there's a solid case for Sage here.

                                Lover is the one I struggle with. The general concept of Lover as denoting a godess that can inflame emotions isn't necessarily a bad fit for some of the ways she's been described, but the Lover Knacks all hinge more on positive stuff, where most of what would make sense in this take on her is in the Leader Knacks like Cloak of Dread (she's feared as an omen of death), Good Listener (overlapping with the case for Sage in knowing stuff), Grand Entrance (again with being such a strong portent just appearing on the battlefield is supposed to matter), and Perfect Poise (OK, probably a weak example as the first half of the Knack makes sense and the second less so).

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