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Abrahamic Pantheon?

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  • #61
    Monotheists arent the only group to oppress people.... That kind of as arguement doesn't belong here


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    • #62
      Intolerance and oppression are not the same thing, even though they tend to go hand in hand. Monotheism is largely opposed to polytheism, in a bad way, in such a degree it's quite simple to construe it like a Titan. This doesn't sit well with many whom consider their supreme being the good guy. To accurately portray the "myth" correctly means to have a whole lot of conflict with the pantheons. If not portrayed the greatest, sole divine being, can, and will be construed as an attack on their belief. So if one doesn't portray them as an opposing, force of creation (greater Titan), what than? As a pantheon? Even though it isn't one? Do we mix the ideas up, like an over done Hollywood tripe and portray Hades as a Satan like figure?

      Other reasons to largely ignore it is just look at Ahketaten. The Titan based on an actual Egyptian Monotheist religion. The Titan stirred up it's own controversy for it's similarities to the Abrahamic faith, which it ironically had enough similarities in real life to be construed as the founding root of the faiths by the likes of Freud. The point I am making here is that this had some not happy with it's "similarities", imagine going with an actual portrayal. On the other side of it, there are those whom do not want anything to do with it.

      If you portray it factually you might please those of faith, and irritate those that don't by watering down the myths they love, much like how we tire of how they do the myths on film. If you don't portray it factual, you entertain some, but irritate the faithful whom tire of "attacks" on their beliefs.

      This is the intolerance to which I speak, the easy to offend and be offended.

      If you don't actually take a stance, most people don't care, and the ones that really want it in their game can write their own version of Abrahams "pantheon". I personally think a set of guidelines for writing up pantheons we want that aren't the main ones are the best way to go.

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      • #63
        Eh. I still say that Onyx Path shouldn’t be making design decisions based off of who will be offended, but rather on what will make for the most interesting story possibilities.


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        • #64
          Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
          Eh. I still say that Onyx Path shouldn’t be making design decisions based off of who will be offended, but rather on what will make for the most interesting story possibilities.
          SMT sure as hell doesn't care and it tends to have an extremely high fanbase. As for an Abrahamic pantheon, anything can work and anything can be interesting it just depends on how much effort is put and the angles responsible as well as the friction between PCs. They have to be done in a way the doesn't cause too many issues. I don't think you can do anything without offending someone though. It's just life .

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          • #65
            Thank You Data. Too many stories are cheapened because someone wasn't willing to take the risk to offend. We trade greatness for normality way too much.


            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
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            • #66
              You know, if this were just a little bit different, it would be awesome.

              If you had Yahweh as one part of a pantheon of gods from the Levant area, alongside Baal and Dagon and Moloch and all the other Caananite/Phonecians (that later JudeoChristians literally demonized) and made it that he's no more or less powerful than his peers, but his Scions/Avatars/Followers/whathaveyou managed to get REALLY LUCKY in founding a religion that stuck, I'd find THAT an incredibly compelling mythological take on it.

              Certainly moreso than the archangel and saints stuff that's, honestly, been done to death

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              • #67
                Certainly, if a Caananite Pantheon ever gets published, it should address its relationship to the Abrahamic faiths. I saw one fan writeup of such a Pantheon where Yahweh was missing, with lots of theories about what happened to him but nothing conclusive, and the implication that he might be the god that was Fatebound by the Order of Divinity (or whatever the group in Companion was called).


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                • #68
                  Canaanite Pantheon would be cool, including Yahweh. That would be a pantheon, fitting with the polytheistic theme. It's a far cry different from the monotheistic faiths, it's not the all supreme being creator that is the omnipotent alpha and omega that is supreme above all (Titans included) that contradicts the entire premise of Scion.

                  I am not against offending someone, I personally would link Ahketaten to Yahweh as apposed to strikingly similar. From a business standpoint though, I think a pragmaticly neutral approach makes more sense as there is little to gain from literal interpretation or reinterpretation.

                  My viewpoint is simply this...

                  How does it improve the game to butcher the myth of other cultures to fit the myths of abraham? Or to butcher the myths of Abraham to fit the myths of the other myths?

                  How does it improve the game to take a myth with so many passionate interpretations, from faith and lack thereof, and define it?

                  How will adding it improve the genre, feel, and spirit of the game?

                  How will adding it improve the experience of the myth, when we have to already sift through the Monotheist rewrites of the existing myths?

                  How is adding it not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?

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                  • #69
                    Have you seen anyone asking for a supreme being creator who is the omnipotent alpha and omega and that is supreme above all (Titans included) to be added to Scion? I haven’t. Frankly, characterizing requests to include something about Abrahamic faiths in Scion in such an extreme way is a strawman argument, and I wish you’d stop it.

                    As for your other questions, they’re about as fair as “have you stopped beating your wife?”
                    Last edited by Dataweaver; 11-06-2013, 03:18 AM.


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                    • #70
                      But all suggestions of an Abrahamic Pantheon carry that supreme-above-all-others baggage. If you handwave away the presence/existence/activity of God, that's going entirely against the main tenant of Abrahamic religions: that God IS present, He IS active and He IS Supreme. You have to compromise monotheism to make it fit with polytheism, or you have to compromise the setting of the game itself to incorporate unadulterated monotheism.

                      They just don't play well together.


                      I'm a professor! Why is no one listening to me?!

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                      • #71
                        Then compromise a bit on the “supreme power” thing. It’s not like other mythologies haven’t been compromised to varying extents to get them to fit into Scion’s premise.


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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Telgar View Post
                          But all suggestions of an Abrahamic Pantheon carry that supreme-above-all-others baggage. If you handwave away the presence/existence/activity of God, that's going entirely against the main tenant of Abrahamic religions: that God IS present, He IS active and He IS Supreme. You have to compromise monotheism to make it fit with polytheism, or you have to compromise the setting of the game itself to incorporate unadulterated monotheism.

                          They just don't play well together.
                          It doesn't carry any baggage, you guys are the only ones that are even insinuating God would be the be-all-end-all-other-Gods-are-suckas-compared-to-him. As Dataweaver said, it doesn't even matter that things would need to be compromised and frankly I don't see why you're dragging your heels so much so to speak


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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Telgar View Post
                            But all suggestions of an Abrahamic Pantheon carry that supreme-above-all-others baggage. If you handwave away the presence/existence/activity of God, that's going entirely against the main tenant of Abrahamic religions: that God IS present, He IS active and He IS Supreme. You have to compromise monotheism to make it fit with polytheism, or you have to compromise the setting of the game itself to incorporate unadulterated monotheism.

                            They just don't play well together.
                            I believe we discussed this once but Shiva doesn't have the ability to destroy the universe and neither does Brahma's solipsism trigger the end of it either by waking up in Scion. There are a lot of deities who aren't nearly as powerful as their own myths would imply. You are assuming that half the restrictions that apply to other gods that have such myth tied to them wouldn't apply to an Abrahamic Pantheon when that doesn't make any sense. It would all have to conform together like it currently does.

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                            • #74
                              The "some people might be offended" argument seems weak to me, because that didn't stop them from including the Abrahamic faith as a Titan sham and nobody seemed to get up in arms as far as I'm aware
                              Last edited by Egg; 11-06-2013, 11:22 AM.


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                              • #75
                                If I recall correctly, Thor with his hammer is kinda off-scale when it comes to the level of destruction he can dish out.
                                And if "current worship in this reality" has any influence in a person's gaming experience, Norse deities aren't really worshipped much today when compared to the big three which are flourishing; Christian, Islam, and Hindu.
                                And even though the Scion game doesn't mention it, a few Hindu deities have mystic weapons that are easily on a par with Thor's hammer.
                                I don't want to think what an Abrahamic deity-weapon could be.

                                *shrugs* Reading the back and forth, Abrahamic deities probably aren't doable, unless one sticks to Semitic and Sumerian deities.


                                Mankind was once an endangered species. It will likely be so again. And mankind will only have itself to blame.

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