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  • Asian Pantheons

    I didn't see an Ask A Simple Question sort of topic, and the Ask Neall thread doesn't sound fitting for this, so I'll just create a new topic.

    So, I know Scion 2E isn't technically out yet, but can anyone tell me how are the gods in Asian regions being represented and characterized? I know barely a thing about Scion 1E (unless you count TvTropes, which I probably shouldn't), just that at least the Shen and the Kami were in 1E and are to be in 2E. I think I saw a preview for the Shen being up, and people's reactions to it being good, so I'll go read that first. But what about the other countries/cultures? Did we have a Kami preview, or is that solely in the backers material? Does Korea get any mention? Mongol?

    EDIT: An extended query - how are those Pantheons working in the contemporary World, and worked in the modern world? Especially around WW2, and from there to today. The curiosity is killing me.
    Last edited by 21C Hermit; 06-03-2018, 08:15 AM.


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

  • #2
    There are three Asian Pantheons in the core book, the Shen of China, the Kami of Japan, and the Deva of South Asia. The first and last have been previewed to general acclaim... The Kami are only in the backer PDF. These three Pantheons in the setting have a very close working relationship and even share many members (Yama is in charge of hell for all three Pantheons, for example).

    Specifically, the Shen are a massive bureaucracy that are just as likely to employ Titans as imprison them, and have a working relationship with the current regime of China... They've even worked out an air traffic control constellation to make sure aeroplanes don't crash into Heaven. They are torn between the Virtues of Yin and Yang, and wield the Bureaucracy mastering powers of Tianming.

    The Kami are a united front to outsiders, but within the Pantheon ancient divisions between the Heavenly Kami, Earthly Kami and Buddhist Fortunes run deep... All united in their belief in the superiority of the Kami as a whole... They are torn between the Virtues of Sincerity and Right Action, and wield the powers of Eight Million Kami.

    The Deva are one of the largest and mightiest of Pantheons, with a billion worshippers and a stockpile of super weapons that can wipe out several Worlds by accident. They strongly prosecute the war against the Titans as a whole, though individual members have many different viewpoints. They are torn between the Virtues of Duty and Conscience, and wield the enlightenment based powers of Yoga.

    In addition, mention has been made of the Pala, the Buddhist Pantheon, which also shares Yama, and the Yazata, the gods of Persia are slated to be in Companion.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Samudra View Post
      There are three Asian Pantheons in the core book, the Shen of China, the Kami of Japan, and the Deva of South Asia. The first and last have been previewed to general acclaim... The Kami are only in the backer PDF. These three Pantheons in the setting have a very close working relationship and even share many members (Yama is in charge of hell for all three Pantheons, for example).

      Specifically, the Shen are a massive bureaucracy that are just as likely to employ Titans as imprison them, and have a working relationship with the current regime of China... They've even worked out an air traffic control constellation to make sure aeroplanes don't crash into Heaven. They are torn between the Virtues of Yin and Yang, and wield the Bureaucracy mastering powers of Tianming.

      The Kami are a united front to outsiders, but within the Pantheon ancient divisions between the Heavenly Kami, Earthly Kami and Buddhist Fortunes run deep... All united in their belief in the superiority of the Kami as a whole... They are torn between the Virtues of Sincerity and Right Action, and wield the powers of Eight Million Kami.

      The Deva are one of the largest and mightiest of Pantheons, with a billion worshippers and a stockpile of super weapons that can wipe out several Worlds by accident. They strongly prosecute the war against the Titans as a whole, though individual members have many different viewpoints. They are torn between the Virtues of Duty and Conscience, and wield the enlightenment based powers of Yoga.

      In addition, mention has been made of the Pala, the Buddhist Pantheon, which also shares Yama, and the Yazata, the gods of Persia are slated to be in Companion.

      Thanks! Just returned from reading the Shen preview, and it looks like the writers did a lot of research indeed. Good for everyone. And the Deva had a preview too? More to read, then.

      Those characterizations of the Pantheons are, well, damn nice. Even fits perfectly with how I already pictured them to the point it's scary. (Except for Virtues and powers, since I don't know the mechanics) Didn't think you'd include the Deva and Yazata though... for some reason they didn't register in my head. But that's probably because I'm from Korea, who had less direct contact with them (save for, of course, spread of Buddhism).

      I guess the writers haven't extended their grasp to the Korean and Mongolian gods yet. I admit, we didn't write down much of our mythology, so we can't say much. And ours was razed by Japan anyways, so there's not much left. They almost succeeded in spiritually annihilating us. I hear the Gaulish Pantheon met such a fate in Scion's World. Speaking of which, I sure hope the writers didn't fall into the romanticization trap for the Kami. Almost every fiction seems to do that.


      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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      • #4
        They'll probably get around to doing the Korean and/or Mongolian gods eventually. The plan is for Scion to be a line that lasts for decades. There are going to be a LOT of expansions in the years to come.


        "We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
        Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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        • #5
          Originally posted by unnatural1 View Post
          They'll probably get around to doing the Korean and/or Mongolian gods eventually. The plan is for Scion to be a line that lasts for decades. There are going to be a LOT of expansions in the years to come.

          Now that gets me tingling.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post


            Thanks! Just returned from reading the Shen preview, and it looks like the writers did a lot of research indeed. Good for everyone. And the Deva had a preview too? More to read, then.

            Those characterizations of the Pantheons are, well, damn nice. Even fits perfectly with how I already pictured them to the point it's scary. (Except for Virtues and powers, since I don't know the mechanics) Didn't think you'd include the Deva and Yazata though... for some reason they didn't register in my head. But that's probably because I'm from Korea, who had less direct contact with them (save for, of course, spread of Buddhism).

            I guess the writers haven't extended their grasp to the Korean and Mongolian gods yet. I admit, we didn't write down much of our mythology, so we can't say much. And ours was razed by Japan anyways, so there's not much left. They almost succeeded in spiritually annihilating us. I hear the Gaulish Pantheon met such a fate in Scion's World. Speaking of which, I sure hope the writers didn't fall into the romanticization trap for the Kami. Almost every fiction seems to do that.
            Virtues are a pair of tenets that each Pantheon espouses, and which often come into conflict in that culture's mythos. Also, in addition to the powers general to all Pantheons, each Pantheon has access to a unique set of powers, which for the Shen Kami and Deva are Tianming, Yaoyorozu-no-Kamigami and Yoga respectively.

            I included the Deva and Yazata because a. They are Asian, and b. I'm Indian and Hindu

            All of the Pantheons have negative aspects pointed out, including the Kami, though the focus of much of the book is on making them playable while also invoking the sense of reverence that the cultures of these Pantheons had for them.

            I'm sure Neall intends to include more Asian Pantheons eventually... But there's a lot of Pantheons out there, so who knows when any of them will get written up

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Samudra View Post

              Virtues are a pair of tenets that each Pantheon espouses, and which often come into conflict in that culture's mythos. Also, in addition to the powers general to all Pantheons, each Pantheon has access to a unique set of powers, which for the Shen Kami and Deva are Tianming, Yaoyorozu-no-Kamigami and Yoga respectively.

              I included the Deva and Yazata because a. They are Asian, and b. I'm Indian and Hindu

              All of the Pantheons have negative aspects pointed out, including the Kami, though the focus of much of the book is on making them playable while also invoking the sense of reverence that the cultures of these Pantheons had for them.

              I'm sure Neall intends to include more Asian Pantheons eventually... But there's a lot of Pantheons out there, so who knows when any of them will get written up
              This keeps getting better. Last time I checked how Scion was being previewed and received, I backed away. Something having to do gods being assimilated with each other. But now I’ll likely dive straight in.


              MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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              • #8
                If I recall correctly, Scion: Demigod is slated to include a Slavic Pantheon and a Mesopotamian Pantheon.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                  This keeps getting better. Last time I checked how Scion was being previewed and received, I backed away. Something having to do gods being assimilated with each other. But now I’ll likely dive straight in.
                  When I first heard they were doing a second edition I was stoked to see it. Then I read it and backed away. Heck I'm still backing away from 2e. I'd take all the lore expansions and some of the new PSP stuff but leave everything else behind.

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                  • #10
                    They largely fixed the conflation issues with the Netjer. The new Egyptian draft is league's better than the first one.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                      EDIT: An extended query - how are those Pantheons working in the contemporary World, and worked in the modern world? Especially around WW2, and from there to today. The curiosity is killing me.
                      All the pantheons are active and engaged with the modern world. They keep a little distance in the age of mass media and the internet because of how fast that lets Fatebinding work, but there is no “masquerade” in the Scion setting because there is no “masquerade” in any of the relevant mythology source material.

                      That said, gods do engage on a much longer timeline than mortals, so what are major history defining conflicts from our perspective can be minor skirmishes for them. So engaging in mortal wars along national lines is often something Hero-Scions do, but rarely something Gods do, or bother directly commanding of their Scions (that’s why Indra and co didn’t crush the BEIC into a pink mist, for example; in his eyes they were a blip compared to the threat of Vritra - but plenty of Deva Scions likely did rise up and battle Aesir, Theoi, and Plant Don Scion conquerors and adventurers).


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
                        They largely fixed the conflation issues with the Netjer. The new Egyptian draft is league's better than the first one.
                        Oh yeah don't get me wrong the lore needed fixing in a bad way. However the complete re-working of the mechanics and such was a major turn off for me. That my role is now largely defined by three concepts and nothing more rather than a general one that I choose is quite unappealing to me.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sessha View Post

                          Oh yeah don't get me wrong the lore needed fixing in a bad way. However the complete re-working of the mechanics and such was a major turn off for me. That my role is now largely defined by three concepts and nothing more rather than a general one that I choose is quite unappealing to me.
                          2E Callings don't replace 1E Calling. 1E Calling was just where you wrote down your character concept. It didn't do anything besides that. You still have your own character concept in 2E, Callings don't replace that - it's just not called "Calling" anymore. You can even use Paths to give your self-defined character concept mechanical bite that it didn't have in 1E.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sessha View Post

                            Oh yeah don't get me wrong the lore needed fixing in a bad way. However the complete re-working of the mechanics and such was a major turn off for me. That my role is now largely defined by three concepts and nothing more rather than a general one that I choose is quite unappealing to me.
                            That is also something that I don't like (referring to Callings I hope) mostly because the terms come from comparative mythology and it wrankles me to have to use them when describing my characters. However, it is to be understood that most people will find those concepts easy to understand, even if the concept is misapplied, so I put up with it for the sake of familiarity.


                            How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
                            -Zhuangzi

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sessha View Post

                              Oh yeah don't get me wrong the lore needed fixing in a bad way. However the complete re-working of the mechanics and such was a major turn off for me. That my role is now largely defined by three concepts and nothing more rather than a general one that I choose is quite unappealing to me.
                              Spoken like someone who hasn't actually looked at the incredible range that even a single Calling gives you. A single Calling is more broad and gives you more tricks than a single D&D class. And you get three of them.

                              Here, let me boot up my copy of Hero... And let me use a random number generator... Okay, got 11. On the list of Callings, the last one is... Warrior.

                              Let's look at what the Warrior Calling lets you do, through its Knacks.

                              First: The Hero Knacks.
                              • The Biggest Threat: A Knack that upon use, lets you mark yourself to all enemies, so they have increased difficulty to attack your foes. Tanking duty.
                              • Close the Gap: Gives you additional Stunts you can use in the fight. The effects are below, and give great bonuses to Combat Movement.
                                • Rush an enemy without spending an action
                                • Enemies lower tier than you (so at Hero, that's Mortal foes) can't disengage from you for a turn.
                                • Avoid the penalties of difficult terrain for one movement.
                              • Death by Teacup: ANY item you get in your hand can be as effective as a professional weapon. Kill someone with a mop, be unstoppable.
                              • Enhanced Impact: If you deal damage to a foe, knock them back a range band. Perfect for strategic positioning.
                              • Master of Weapons: Give your weapons additional tags, letting them do blatantly impossible stuff, such as firing sword beams. This CAN stack with Death by Teacup.
                              • Trick Shot: If you make deliberately tricky shots with a ranged weapon, what would be a difficulty increase becomes bonus successes.
                              • Tempered: Gain a rank of Soft Armor, which makes you tougher to kill.
                              So, those are your basic bread-and-butter abilities that your Calling Ranks can get you. "What else is there?" asks the strawman. Well, glad you asked. Here, let's take a look at the IMMORTAL Knacks!
                              • Army of One: Ignore the penalties to being outnumbered. And when fighting a large number of foes, you can Imbue a Legend Point to make the entire battle a Feat of Scale. For those unfamiliar, a Feat of Scale lets you increase your Scale, which is a measure of how overwhelmingly powerful you are. At Legend 1-2, Scale 1 gives you 2 bonus successes against weaker foes.
                              • Hurl to the Moon: If you're a hulking strong thrower type, this lets you Imbue your Legend to use a Feat of Scale to hurl heavy objects for a scene. Large objects can be thrown out to Medium range, which is y'know pistol range. Any smaller thrown weapons can be thrown out to Long Range, which is Sniping Range. So throw an ax or a javelin at a target from a city block away. You are MIGHTY.
                              • Perfect Defense: Once per fight, you can simply declare that an enemy attack didn't hit you. If you spend a point of Momentum, you can use this a SECOND time in a fight.
                              • They're Everywhere: Fighting a stream of foes? When you have this Knack, whenever a new enemy enters the field you're fighting in, you get a free attack against them, unaugmented by other Knacks to make extra attacks. You can make any number of attacks, but only one attack per foe.
                              OKAY! So, just look at those. Breathe them in. And yes, a Calling is limited, so you can't have ALL of those active at a time.

                              BUT you can swap them out between sessions. Anything you need to prep for, you can handle with these Knacks.

                              And a Hero can have three Callings, each one even more versatile than this one, since honestly Warrior is the most limited in its themes of "Break faces".

                              So, Sessha, I ask of you... What in the name of Mimir's greatest wisdom is restraining about these? Even in 1e, which mechanically was a hot dumpster fire, you only had so much XP. Even with your broadest PC concept, you were generally picking one, two, MAYBE three things to be Good at. Just like, shocker, there's three Callings.
                              Last edited by Kyman201; 06-04-2018, 12:55 AM.


                              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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