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The Enduri - The Pantheon of the Manchu People 2e Homebrew

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  • The Enduri - The Pantheon of the Manchu People 2e Homebrew

    Once upon a time, there was nothing but endless sky, endless earth, and endless light. Once upon a time, there was only the warmth of a hearth-bed to take one through the freezing night. Once upon a time, the tribes fought and the clans enslaved each other. Twice, great China was conquered and twice the people forgot their Goddesses. But all empires have crumbled, and still they are there, still their dance continues.

    The Enduri are the Goddesses of the Manchu, they were their Goddesses already when they called themselves Jurchen, and even before. Their people have had many names, and none ever described what they were. Was it someone who spoke their language? But today, it has all but disappeared. Was it someone who kept to their rites? But so often, even the foremost among their people have abandoned. So who were the Manchu? Who are they? And who are the Enduri?

    Emperors. Conquerors. Slavers. Slaves. Most of all, survivors. Survivors of a hostile land, of destruction, and of glory that makes humans greedy and mad. And throughout all, the Enduri have been the ones who stayed with them, have received them back whenever they returned from their sojourns into foreign faiths. And as long as each tribe stands united, as long as there is praying in the dark, that is who the Enduri will remain.

    There’s more to fight than that, though. There’s Yeluri, a dread fiend of the Goddesses’ own creation, and forever they, that evil that transcends male and female, right and wrong, cunning and madness, will oppose them, will seek to crush everything they hold dear. That is the burden of the solemn creatrix Abka Hehe as well - the resentment of the created.

    Now, as all Pantheons grow stronger than ever, as the dead return and the living rear, the Enduri find themselves surrounded by old enemies and new foes - the Shen that they’ve tried to get the better of for centuries, the Buddhas that eclipsed them, the Kami that humbled them, and so many more whose names they are hearing for the first time. But the Enduri are ready. They are the ones whose drum is the sky, whose drumstick is the mountain, whose song makes the world, and whose dance shapes it. They are the ones that will be forever, that will always push through.




    Hello everybody! I hope everyone is still enjoying playing Scion Second Edition now that the Backers have access to Scion: Hero!

    We have another unofficial homebrew gift for you to go along with the Šiuneš from earlier this year: the Enduri, the Goddesses of the Manchu people. They are an awesome addition to any Scion game, especially one where the Shén are playing an important role as both Pantheons have a tense relationship of violence and cultural exchange. Especially since the Pantheon is primarily comprised of powerful women, a stark contrast to the majority of other Pantheons in the game which are male-dominated. At the moment they are built with the game available to the people who have Kickstarted the project, and will be updated with the official release if necessary, as well as at Demigod and God.

    We have provided a retelling of the Manchu creation myth, which includes a section of what would be considered their Titanomachy, a brief rundown of their historical and cultural details, as well as everything you need to use them in your game: Major Deities, Minor Deities, Titans, Primordials, the Underworld, the Overworld, Terra Incognita, Birthright Ideas, and a Hero-Tier Pantheon Specific Purview based on a Manchu religious notion which formed the basis of the European notion of 'shamanism.'

    If you like the Shen, the Enduri are a counterweight to them in innumerable ways - both conquered each other repeatedly, appropriated each other, mixed and separated, are bound by shared history and visceral hatred.

    If you like the Manitou, the Enduri come from a cultural tradition that has at times been said to play the role of Native Americans for Asia. The Manchu are one subset of a wide range of related cultures that are spread all across the cold plains of northern Asia, that have opposed and endured the colonialism of Russia and China, and that are the origin of the word and concept "shamanism," the great spiritual journey of the soul to the Gods and of the Gods into the human body.

    If you like playing with the resurgence of cultures on the brink of extinction, with a culture of the oppressed that is based around slavery itself, with the strong men and even stronger women, with a whole Pantheon of awesome Goddesses, then the Enduri are for you.

    If you have any questions about the Goddesses of the Manchu, how to use them in your game, or want to share your thoughts and opinions, we are happy to listen and help where we can!

    Up Next: The smell of whale fat and the sound of distant beating wings.
    Last edited by Watcher; 06-12-2019, 06:06 PM.

  • Sacerdos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    These are the internet sources I used for what little info I could find on Kwakiutl mythology. Like I said, they're very informal and not particularly great, but I don't have access to a university library anymore, so my ability to access better sources is somewhat limited. The reason I asked about them potentially sharing a PSP is that I was considering writing up a handful of Kwakiutl deities and Titans myself (after attempting further research.) Gods are individually pretty easy to write up, mechanics-wise, but the PSPs are where things get complicated, and I don't know if I could pull that off. So, that being said, I was wondering if sharing the Haida PSP would be acceptable, but if you don't think so, I won't do it.
    https://mythic-engine.obsidianportal...iutl-mythology
    https://www.mpm.edu/research-collect...eremonial-life
    I would look for the stuff Franz Boas wrote on the Kwakiutl, they were pretty much his main research interest. He is the father of modern anthropology, and his methods still hold up, more or less. Yet most of his stuff is so old that you should be able to find it for free online. At least I think so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wannabe Demon Lord
    replied

    These are the internet sources I used for what little info I could find on Kwakiutl mythology. Like I said, they're very informal and not particularly great, but I don't have access to a university library anymore, so my ability to access better sources is somewhat limited. The reason I asked about them potentially sharing a PSP is that I was considering writing up a handful of Kwakiutl deities and Titans myself (after attempting further research.) Gods are individually pretty easy to write up, mechanics-wise, but the PSPs are where things get complicated, and I don't know if I could pull that off. So, that being said, I was wondering if sharing the Haida PSP would be acceptable, but if you don't think so, I won't do it.
    https://mythic-engine.obsidianportal...iutl-mythology
    https://www.mpm.edu/research-collect...eremonial-life

    Leave a comment:


  • Watcher
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    The (admittedly not so great) internet sources I'd used for the Kwakiutl seemed to indicate that they had Tia as a god/titan as well. They also listed several other deities who were supposedly of Haida origin, but Tia was the only one I'd heard of. It wasn't clear for the others whether they were imported gods in the sense that they were deities shared by the Haida, or if they had, in a more literal sense, come from Haida lands in the context of the myth. I would not be surprised at all if those sources were faulty though, they were informal, to say the least. As for Xhuuya, I knew that the Kwakiutl had a Raven, but I didn't know how similar to or distinct from Xhuuya Ō'meaL was, or even that his name was Ō'meaL.

    Interesting! If you send me the websites I could dig into them for you and give more specific answers. It is a good question to ask since it is something that we are doing differently from the actual developers.

    As your original question was about reusing the PsP, I suppose it could be possible, but I would need to read a lot about Kwakiutl religious ritual as the Haida PsP is centered around that, and I am uncertain how well it would translate across as it is dealing with some very specific notions about reciprocity. I would normally always strive for any two Pantheons to have a distinct Pantheon Specific Purview to themselves with some specific exceptions I can think of.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sacerdos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    The (admittedly not so great) internet sources I'd used for the Kwakiutl seemed to indicate that they had Tia as a god/titan as well. They also listed several other deities who were supposedly of Haida origin, but Tia was the only one I'd heard of. It wasn't clear for the others whether they were imported gods in the sense that they were deities shared by the Haida, or if they had, in a more literal sense, come from Haida lands in the context of the myth. I would not be surprised at all if those sources were faulty though, they were informal, to say the least. As for Xhuuya, I knew that the Kwakiutl had a Raven, but I didn't know how similar to or distinct from Xhuuya Ō'meaL was, or even that his name was Ō'meaL.
    The real problem here is that we can't follow just "logic" here, deciding to put two cultures together because they have enough overlap, as is obvious for the Greeks and Romans. Here, we are dealing with cultures almost destroyed by colonialism, and no matter what could be gained by making a shared Pantheon from a game perspective, the price of that would be further eroding public awareness of the distinctness of these groups, further contributing to the looming threat of cultural extinction. So for these even more than for other Pantheons, our policy is: No matter how similar two figures in two (colonised) cultures, we'll write them up separately. That's actually a problem that will be making the San very difficult - it is anything but clear how much they identify as one group rather than their different sub-groups, which, after all, speak a multitude of non-mutually intelligible languages. Figuring that out will be a long and sensitive process, and though I don't think so, it is technically possible we could reach a point where we have to abandon that project. I repeat, I don't think so, but I don't wanna get anyone's hopes up too much at this point!

    Leave a comment:


  • Crying
    replied
    This is really impressive, you've done great work

    Leave a comment:


  • Wannabe Demon Lord
    replied
    The (admittedly not so great) internet sources I'd used for the Kwakiutl seemed to indicate that they had Tia as a god/titan as well. They also listed several other deities who were supposedly of Haida origin, but Tia was the only one I'd heard of. It wasn't clear for the others whether they were imported gods in the sense that they were deities shared by the Haida, or if they had, in a more literal sense, come from Haida lands in the context of the myth. I would not be surprised at all if those sources were faulty though, they were informal, to say the least. As for Xhuuya, I knew that the Kwakiutl had a Raven, but I didn't know how similar to or distinct from Xhuuya Ō'meaL was, or even that his name was Ō'meaL.

    Leave a comment:


  • Watcher
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    Have you done any research on the Kwakiutl pantheon, which I'm aware is closely related to the Sga'na Qeda's and has a lot of overlap with them. It does, as I understand it, have several deities which are distinctly Kwakiutl, like Kumugwe and Winalagalis. How would you go about in terms of linking the two pantheons or keeping them separate? Do you think it would be acceptable to have them as two pantheons that share a purview, like the Manitou and the Orenda?
    Save in very specific situations we will probably avoid meshing different cultural groups together, even if they have a similar-ish Pantheon for our projects. As an outsider to the cultures we work on, it would make me very nervous to conflate two culture's religious figures together.

    Reading through what I can find on Kwakiutl myth and folklore, I can't see anything that jumps out as an overlap asides from both having a 'Raven' figure. But, Ō'meaL and Xhuuya seem to have different cosmological roles, and personalities from the quick read I just did of some Kwakiutl myths. Who do you see as a possible overlapping figure? I can probably answer your question on how to handle the situation with that!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sacerdos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    Awesome! I'm very glad to hear that.
    Here's another question, concerning your next project:
    Have you done any research on the Kwakiutl pantheon, which I'm aware is closely related to the Sga'na Qeda's and has a lot of overlap with them. It does, as I understand it, have several deities which are distinctly Kwakiutl, like Kumugwe and Winalagalis. How would you go about in terms of linking the two pantheons or keeping them separate? Do you think it would be acceptable to have them as two pantheons that share a purview, like the Manitou and the Orenda?
    I don't even think it's acceptable to mesh the Manitou and Orenda like that, but that is another story. Questions about the Pacific NW, however, I must refer to Watcher

    Leave a comment:


  • Wannabe Demon Lord
    replied
    Awesome! I'm very glad to hear that.
    Here's another question, concerning your next project:
    Have you done any research on the Kwakiutl pantheon, which I'm aware is closely related to the Sga'na Qeda's and has a lot of overlap with them. It does, as I understand it, have several deities which are distinctly Kwakiutl, like Kumugwe and Winalagalis. How would you go about in terms of linking the two pantheons or keeping them separate? Do you think it would be acceptable to have them as two pantheons that share a purview, like the Manitou and the Orenda?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sacerdos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    It's because you've done such a complete and thorough job of explaining the pantheon, that all my questions were answered within the PDF itself!

    As for my commentary on the Enduri, I really like them. I think my favorite Enduri is probably Zhegulu, the hedgehog goddess. She's just adorable and badass at the same time.

    Why do you think it is such a large percentage of the Enduri are female, given that women are still to some degree restricted in their culture? The pantheon reads like the deities of a matriarchal people, but they're really not. Any hypotheses as to why that is?

    Also, what would you say the Enduri's relationship with the Tanrilar would be like?

    Finally, are the smaller aspects/incarnations of Yeluri something straight out of the myth, or are they something you came up with to serve as adversaries to face in gaming terms?

    In all seriousness, I apologize for getting off track. You did an amazing job with the Enduri, and I'm just exceedingly excited over the bright future that seems to be coming in regards to your work. I love learning about obscure mythologies, and I think these projects are going to be a wonderful resource, both in terms of gaming and in terms of teaching about these cultures and mythologies in an accessible and enjoyable way. I would not run the game without them, and I would insist on using them as a player (my flagship character I have planned is a Scion of Xhuuya.) As someone who is fascinated by mythology, and would like to be inclusive of such underrated legends in my own creative work someday, I'm thrilled that you're doing this and doing this for free on top of it. Thanks so much to both of you for your efforts.
    Everyone loves Zhegulu. She's a starlight hedgehog masquerading as a flower. Like, it's literally impossible to dislike that concept.

    In part, that's me cheating a little bit by emphasising older, written sources over more modern ethnographic accounts, because these days, many of the girls have been replaced by male forms of themselves the way Abka Hehe has. Calling widow burials "being to some degree restricted" is creative, but I agree that one problem is that for the time before the Qing Dynasty, most of our sources on Jurchen culture come from outsiders, so there's bound to be some skewing of information. In general, though, I think there's just a different understanding of women and their role; in a way, the individual (if something like that even exists in the clan structure of the Manchu) is less continuous here than in other societies. Unmarried maidens and shamans are almost like a different "species" than matrons and widows, and it is the former ones who overlap with the divine. That's just the beginning of an explanation, though, and I think even after the research I've done I still lack sufficient understanding to offer the full one.

    Highly complicated. The Enduri hate the Tengri (as I would call them with more of a Mongolian emphasis than mors did, but how exactly I'd conceptualise them I haven't decided yet) for conquering them twice. The Tengri hate the Enduri for conquering them twice. And yet at least on the side of the Enduri, there is also deep admiration. The Manchu were at least as strongly influenced by Mongolia as by China. Mongolian was made an official language in the Qing Empire together with Chinese and Manchu, and all inscriptions were trilingual. The Qing rulers changed the characters for both Jurchen and Mongol to remove the radical "dog" from them. In a way, they saw the Mongols as a brother people - a brother one had a stormy history with, but family nonetheless. If the Tengri share this aspect of the sentiment as well, I can't say without further research. Both of them probably do share a hatred of Tibet, though, since Tibetan Buddhism ate both of their traditional religions.

    Those are totally canonical! I rarely make up stuff like that

    No need to apologise! I was just teasing I think changing topic lies in the nature of conversation, so I'm definitely not one of those "stay on topic or get banned"-advocates. I'm incredibly happy to hear how highly you esteem our work though, and can only give you a big thank you right back

    Leave a comment:


  • Wannabe Demon Lord
    replied
    It's because you've done such a complete and thorough job of explaining the pantheon, that all my questions were answered within the PDF itself!

    As for my commentary on the Enduri, I really like them. I think my favorite Enduri is probably Zhegulu, the hedgehog goddess. She's just adorable and badass at the same time.

    Why do you think it is such a large percentage of the Enduri are female, given that women are still to some degree restricted in their culture? The pantheon reads like the deities of a matriarchal people, but they're really not. Any hypotheses as to why that is?

    Also, what would you say the Enduri's relationship with the Tanrilar would be like?

    Finally, are the smaller aspects/incarnations of Yeluri something straight out of the myth, or are they something you came up with to serve as adversaries to face in gaming terms?

    In all seriousness, I apologize for getting off track. You did an amazing job with the Enduri, and I'm just exceedingly excited over the bright future that seems to be coming in regards to your work. I love learning about obscure mythologies, and I think these projects are going to be a wonderful resource, both in terms of gaming and in terms of teaching about these cultures and mythologies in an accessible and enjoyable way. I would not run the game without them, and I would insist on using them as a player (my flagship character I have planned is a Scion of Xhuuya.) As someone who is fascinated by mythology, and would like to be inclusive of such underrated legends in my own creative work someday, I'm thrilled that you're doing this and doing this for free on top of it. Thanks so much to both of you for your efforts.
    Last edited by Wannabe Demon Lord; 10-24-2018, 06:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sacerdos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    That's more or less what I assumed. I figured that Polynesia was probably fairly unusual in that regard.

    The Kalou-Vu are the only pantheon from Melanesia or Micronesia I know anything about. They're quite cool, though, so I'm glad to see that they're on your bucket list. Besides them, the only deity from those regions I know of is Hatuibwari, and I only know about him because he was featured in a children's book about dragons I had as a kid. (Not the best source, I'm aware.) I'd still love to see him at some point, given what a truly strange figure he is. I'd also love to see a pantheon for New Guinea, though all my searching in regards to one has turned up zilch.
    New Guinea probably has a bunch of Pantheons, actually, for the reasons I mentioned. Really now, though, I'm almost a bit insulted that we drop a shiny new Pantheon for you guys, and all I get asked about are the ones we haven't done (yet).

    Leave a comment:


  • Wannabe Demon Lord
    replied
    That's more or less what I assumed. I figured that Polynesia was probably fairly unusual in that regard.

    The Kalou-Vu are the only pantheon from Melanesia or Micronesia I know anything about. They're quite cool, though, so I'm glad to see that they're on your bucket list. Besides them, the only deity from those regions I know of is Hatuibwari, and I only know about him because he was featured in a children's book about dragons I had as a kid. (Not the best source, I'm aware.) I'd still love to see him at some point, given what a truly strange figure he is. I'd also love to see a pantheon for New Guinea, though all my searching in regards to one has turned up zilch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sacerdos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
    How exactly would you go about addressing the deities of Melanesia and Micronesia? Are they easily divisible into several pantheons, as with the Taotaomo'na specifically being the pantheon of Guam, or is there a ton of overlap between the different regions, as with the Atua?
    Micronesia definitely has a bunch of pantheons, the islands are far apart and the legends all pretty distinct and bound to local landmarks as far as I can see. They had excellent voyaging technology as well, of course, but their culture doesn't revolve around migration and diaspora as much as the interconnected Pantheons of Polynesia. For Melanesia, I'm not sure, since I'm mainly informed about Fiji, which is variously counted towards either Melanesia or Polynesia, and is thus obviously an absolute melting pot. In general, though, "Melanesia" has several migratory strata of population (e.g. the Papuans and Melanaesians on New Guinea), so even if a unified Melanesian Pantheon made sense (which, in spite of my lack of information outside Fiji, I doubt), it probably wouldn't be the only on kicking around on those islands. For the moment, the Oceanic groups beside the Polynesian complex that I have looked into and think are likely future projects remain the Chamoru of Guam and the Marianas (Panthein name, as stated, Taotaomo'na) and the Fijians of, well, Fiji (Pantheon name Kalou-Vu). If anyone is well-versed in other Oceanic Pantheons, I love them very dearly, and am always excited to learn more, so feel free to message me about any such Oh, and of course, the indigenous Pantheons of Taiwan also belong to this cultural complex of "Austronesians", though I doubt there's enough on those in Western languages for us to approach any of them. But again, I love being proven wrong.

    Leave a comment:

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