Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Scion and Monotheism

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Scion and Monotheism

    Likely this has come up before and I apologies if I have not found the answer, but something that has bugged me is that Scion take creatives licence with polytheistic religions, but there is no real mention or comment on monotheistic religions. From my perspective if we have a game about mythic figures and godly beings that all faiths would be represented in some form and fashion. Was this done because the writers and the company didn't want to offend a large chunk of the religious community, highlight religions that do not get a in-depth spot light, or some other reason?

    I don't ask out of malice and am honestly curious.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bioagent View Post
    Likely this has come up before and I apologies if I have not found the answer, but something that has bugged me is that Scion take creatives licence with polytheistic religions, but there is no real mention or comment on monotheistic religions. From my perspective if we have a game about mythic figures and godly beings that all faiths would be represented in some form and fashion. Was this done because the writers and the company didn't want to offend a large chunk of the religious community, highlight religions that do not get a in-depth spot light, or some other reason?

    I don't ask out of malice and am honestly curious.
    There is a sidebar in Hero on Page 24 that discusses Monotheism. In addition, the game contains the Orisha, who are explicitly a monotheistic Pantheon and mentioned as such in their write-up, and also the Deva, many of whose followers (myself included) are monotheistic. So monotheism is very much there in the book. Though I will note that, given the number of religious beliefs that Humanity has espoused over the ages, it is impossible to represent them all, no matter in what form or fashion.
    Last edited by Samudra; 11-06-2018, 02:00 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      OK, thank you for that. I had missed that sidebar. I will read over it and give it some thought.

      Comment


      • #4
        *Awaits the inevitable Henotheism rant*


        It is a time for great deeds!

        Comment


        • #5
          In addition, I know that Neall has said he doesn't want anybody to feel like they picked the 'wrong religion' when reading Scion.

          At my table, my stance is "The Abrahamic religions are as true as any other religion in the World. However, we aren't touching that with a ten foot pole." Because people have tried before, tried to make various Angelic/Abrahamic/YHWH Pantheon Writeups... And most of them go "Okay this is a fucking minefield and there's actually a LOT of stuff to untangle so I'm out".

          I think the team want to do a Caananite Pantheon in Demigod, which will probably address the elephant in the room.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

          Comment


          • #6
            In terms of risk of offending people - I don’t see any difference from using Hinduism in a game. Except of course that the writers and publishers are largely of Abrahamic background themselves so it should be MORE ok.

            For the “monotheism doesn’t cosmologically mix with a polytheistic setting” arguments, that isn’t preventing the Yazata from placing their one true God as a Primordial, and Zoroastrianism’s angelic beings as God-level.

            All the hand wringing seems hypocritical to me in that context.
            Last edited by glamourweaver; 11-06-2018, 07:59 PM.


            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

            Comment


            • #7
              Mainly just lean into the idea that Primordials are BIG and no one is really sure where one begins and another ends.

              COULD The Three Pure Ones = Amenominakanushi/Takamimusuhi/Kamimusuhi = Olorun/Oludomare/Olofin = the Holy Trinity = the trimurti faces of Brahman and/or the tridevi faces of Shakti?

              The Orisha are open to the idea, but more broadly, who knows?!


              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

              Comment


              • #8
                Admittedly, Scion 2e is better equipped to handle monotheism than 1e was. 1e didn't have Primordials or Chosen Scions, two concepts that are essential to monotheistic factions in 2e, the first allowing a Pantheon to have a “Highest God” and the second allowing it to have Scions who aren't literal children of the gods.


                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                  In addition, I know that Neall has said he doesn't want anybody to feel like they picked the 'wrong religion' when reading Scion.

                  At my table, my stance is "The Abrahamic religions are as true as any other religion in the World. However, we aren't touching that with a ten foot pole." Because people have tried before, tried to make various Angelic/Abrahamic/YHWH Pantheon Writeups... And most of them go "Okay this is a fucking minefield and there's actually a LOT of stuff to untangle so I'm out".

                  I think the team want to do a Caananite Pantheon in Demigod, which will probably address the elephant in the room.
                  Yeah, I tend to look at them as being almost entirely hands off about the World in the modern day for whatever reason.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post

                    Yeah, I tend to look at them as being almost entirely hands off about the World in the modern day for whatever reason.
                    Eh, no moreso than the other Pantheons. I've no doubt that in the World there ARE Scions who claim that their power comes from YHWH, or one of His servants.

                    I'll take this moment to link another user's very well-made homebrew Angelic Host Pantheon, which has a sidebar noting that the Angels definitely exist, and they say that the Creator does as well, but that the Angels mostly seem to refuse to provide any clarification for the smaller questions about the cosmological breakdown.

                    Such as "So was Jesus actually the Son of God?", with the reason being "Each time we provide clarification you mortals make even more splinter groups. Now take this sword and go kill some demons."


                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Definitely moreso than other pantheons. I'd rather just not use them for anything.

                      I'm talking about my take, not the game's take. I'm not sure the game has a take, tbh.

                      I also don't really like the whole "angels have scions" thing, tbh. In my own games, only actual gods would have them. I also have a lot of issues with combining Christianity, Judaism, and Islam into a singular "pantheon." Anyway, I'm not advising anyone else on what to do or not to do, just what I prefer to do.
                      Last edited by Resplendent Fire; 11-23-2018, 05:13 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's a weird objection, possibly, but the one thing that made me hold back really getting into Scion was the lack of Judeo-Christian representation. Not that I'm particularly religious, and the various other pantheons were interesting (I have the PDFs as a Kickstarter backer), but I'd like to see all the religions represented. They may be monotheistic, but there is a whole pantheon of angels (and demons) to flesh out instead, and it would be a good inclusion for me. I know it's not hapenning any time soon though.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post
                          I also don't really like the whole "angels have scions" thing, tbh. In my own games, only actual gods would have them.
                          How do you define a God? The Orisha would say they're not Gods if you asked them. They'd say they have One Big True God, they're just like messengers of them.

                          Not unlike Angels, when you think about it.

                          And most Angels in a hypothetical Abrahamic Angelic Host Pantheon would probably, A, have Chosen Scions... And B would insist that the Scions are Chosen in Accordance with the Will of the Divine, of which they are but mere messengers.


                          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As an Abrahamic Monotheist in one of the branches that often gets told "you're not really monotheist" (aka Catholicism), I'd note that there is no talk about the Abrahamics being combined into a single pantheon as far as I know. Even in terms of home-brewing some Christianity, I was thinking in terms of at least the Angelic Choir and the Catholic Saints being separate pantheons. I can't speak to how the Islamic or Judaic pantheons would work out. But with significant cultural differences they'd be separate.

                            And they'd certainly be more about the Chosen Scions than anything else, born scions from the Angelic Choir would be in for a bad time since Nephilim are considered bad news.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thrythlind View Post
                              As an Abrahamic Monotheist in one of the branches that often gets told "you're not really monotheist" (aka Catholicism), I'd note that there is no talk about the Abrahamics being combined into a single pantheon as far as I know. Even in terms of home-brewing some Christianity, I was thinking in terms of at least the Angelic Choir and the Catholic Saints being separate pantheons. I can't speak to how the Islamic or Judaic pantheons would work out. But with significant cultural differences they'd be separate.

                              And they'd certainly be more about the Chosen Scions than anything else, born scions from the Angelic Choir would be in for a bad time since Nephilim are considered bad news.
                              There are cultural and (HUGE!) theological differences, but remember that Scion is about Myth, not Religion (hence the Roman Pantheon being Mantles of the Greek, despite their religious differences, because their mythic NARRATIVE is a direct extension of the Greek).


                              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X