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  • Everyday life with Gods

    Hi, Scion forumers! I’m old Chronicles of Darkness Storyteller, interested in Scion setting, but knowing only most basics of it and flipping maybe once 1E corebook. I’m returning to the topic with 2E premier of the game. So, let’s go to the points I like to talk about.

    I recently listed to Story Told Podcast episode, where they try to explain games Scion setting – the World. I’m one of this people who is like ‘everyone knows about existence of Gods and Scions – and history work like in our world?! Damn, HOW that would work?’ – and it’s the main barrier I have with the game as it is to start running it.

    Story Told podcasters points three things that should resolve issue:
    1. EVERY myth is true – So World is at the same time A Disk, Giant Turtle and Globe Held By Atlas? How does this work?
    2. ‘Gods deniers’ are saying there is ( or there isn’t ) one True Creator, and Scion Gods are just very powerful beings – but they are not Almighty.
    3. Mortals reaction on them shapes Gods identities – So Gods do not want to intervene, so Mortals outside of their own culture would ‘spoil’ the God in work.
    To me, it’s not enough. Yes, limited Gods intervention from point 3 limits a problem – but we still have literal ‘Odin in the room’.
    Here are my questions, related:
    1. Are temples of the Gods very prevailing in the World? Every family have their own heritage shrine in house and their Pantheon is answering to people praying everyday?
    2. Does Monotheism won on large scale? ( Fans topic sounds to pointing it mostly won. )
    3. Are Gods running only secret cults to survive on their faith?
    Basically, if running with idea that Gods are not intervening on day-to-day basis –
    1. On WHAT basis they DO intervene? Would particular God answer his worshiper everyday prayer?
    2. Would every God sustained it’s ‘Church’ in modern countries?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-18-2018, 02:04 AM.


    My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    Hello Wyrd! I am glad to see someone enticed into looking at Scion!

    A lot about the setting for Scion 2e is in the hands of individual Storytellers, so nothing I can say here is official, but I can talk about your different questions for sure and give some suggestions!

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Are temples of the Gods very prevailing in the World? Every family have their own heritage shrine in house and their Pantheon is answering to people praying everyday?
    The books suggest that temples for various Gods are rather common, but ultimately there will be geographic variance. A rural Andean town likely has no presence of any Pantheon except their traditional one which was subsumed by the Inca, and even then they probably only have their local Hauca, or embodiment of their regional patron deity enshrined there and might not have any of the larger Incan figures. Where, on the other hand, major metropolitan cities across the face of the world likely have a large number of shrines, though I would expect that many of these would be in structures like the pantheon (the building not the political group of gods) in the real world, a single structure for a large collection of shrines.

    Individual families may or may not have their own shrines, as ultimately that depends on the religious tradition. Small personal shrines are common in some religions (ex: Theoi, and Shen) but don't 'work' in others where you need a professionally trained individual to interact with the supernatural on your behalf. So, a family who worships some figures from a specific group who have house-shrines could totally have one, but a family who worships figures who would never respond to such prayers as they need professionally trained mediums, would not.

    Who does and does not answer prayers is also very complicated and ultimately rests on you as a Storyteller. Exactly what draws the attention of a God for a prayer varies from Pantheon to Pantheon as well. So, praying every day at your bedside to Zeus will probably do absolutely nothing or even insult him, where as having a large powerful bull sacrificed to him along with your prayer once a month would be appropriate and might get a response. Praying to the Túatha Dé Danann will probably do nothing as they're terrible at being Gods and never respond to any prayers and just show up to bother people historically. Ultimately it depends on the Pantheon, and the figure to see what you need to do to have a chance to be listened to.

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Does Monotheism won on large scale?
    I believe for this you mean Abrahamic, yes? There are a lot of monotheistic religions in the world, such as some forms of Hinduism, and both the Orisha and Yazata (Scion: Hero, and the upcoming Scion: Companion respectively) are also Monotheistic. The traditional religion of the Ashanti, the people who have the stories of Anansi, are also monotheistic. Monotheism is just a method or philosophy of religion so it cannot exactly 'win.'

    However, the Abrahamic faiths in Scion did reach the same heights they did in our world. The exact details are very vague since this gets into an incredibly complicated topic where suddenly you're dealing with the non-Monotheistic Christians from the Council of Nicea, the Christians who believe all physical things including the body of Jesus are fundamentally evil, the Irish Christians who got off the rails, and then trying to deal with a reality where not only non-Abrahamic beliefs survived into the modern day through much of the world, but also all of the internally conflicting traditions within the Abrahamic faiths did as well.

    So, yes, the Abrahamic faiths reached the same height of popularity, but there are subtle tweaks to things so that other faiths are not wiped out, and also so that all the various forms of these Abrahamic faiths survive as well which is really complicated.

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Are Gods running only secret cults to survive on their faith?
    Gods do not need worship to survive, mortals are ultimately irrelevant to the existence of most Pantheons. Some exceptions are made for the Mesopotamian and Hittite Pantheons for instance who use humanity as slaves to feed and bathe them, but that isn't as much as they need humanity to exist as much as they're accustomed to having humans as servants. But, since no God actually needs worship to survive, they don't need to make sure they are being worshiped at all. It literally does not matter to them.

    However, some Gods totally do have weird secret cults. Mystery Cults have always been popular. But, there will just as often be normal temples and public worship as long as the figure is publicly accepted. Keep in mind, some Gods will not be allowed to be worshiped, Augustus banned the worship of Baccus in Rome due to things getting really out of hand (ex: public self-castration) which he thought was not up to his standards.

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    On WHAT basis they DO intervene? Would particular God answer his worshiper everyday prayer?
    Ultimately depends on the Pantheon and the Deity in question, all of this is culturally specific. I doubt any God would answer every prayer unless that specific worshiper was important to them personally, but this really is a question that is super varied by Pantheon and individual deity.

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Would every God sustained it’s ‘Church’ in modern countries?
    Gods don't need to be around to sustain their worship, worship just happens. Seeing as there is borderline an infinite number of Gods not every God will be worshiped everywhere least every square inch of a city just be very small shrines. This is a question for people to deal with in their individual games and settings.

    Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice your other question!

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    EVERY myth is true – So World is at the same time A Disk, Giant Turtle and Globe Held By Atlas? How does this work?
    It just works. It is impossible, clearly, but the sun is ten thousand different things, so are the stars, the moon, everything. Humanity are forged of stolen bones, of mud and dirt, the heirs of Adam, and the children of Heimdall. Scion is a game of contested realities, of thousands of impossible intersecting cosmologies. It will not make sense, and that is what is amazing about it.
    Last edited by Watcher; 12-17-2018, 02:01 PM.


    Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
    The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire.
    The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples.

    Comment


    • #3
      On what basis they DO intervene?
      Directly? Almost never. But they do intervene in small ways.

      It's just that usually a God's solution for a problem in the World is "Crap, better send a Hero to take care of it." Heroes are the first answer to a lot of things, as they're very powerful compared to mortals, plus for them Fate doesn't have as tight a hold on them as it does on the Gods, or even Demigods, allowing them relative freedom of operation.

      They also often send out omens or visions, if need be. A savvy mortal in the World may be waiting for a bus, see a bunch of ravens fighting over a bus ticket and rip it in half, and decide to catch the next one. Then later finds out that the bus they would have gotten on flipped off the road.

      In the World, nobody questions the wisdom of knocking on wood or tossing salt over your shoulder, because that shit works.


      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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      • #4
        Thanks for answers! I may reference hypothetical Scion setting in Poland I may run, just for examples in discussion I may have.

        Originally posted by Watcher View Post
        I believe for this you mean Abrahamic, yes? There are a lot of monotheistic religions in the world, such as...
        Sorry, I'm Catholic raised Agnostic from Poland myself - I just equate Monotheism with Abrahamic religions, in my mind. And I'm a mythology nerd, but clearly not enough as much as you. Yeah, when writing about Monotheism I meant Abrahamic religions. Sorry for mistake.

        Originally posted by Watcher View Post
        However, the Abrahamic faiths in Scion did reach the same heights they did in our world. The exact details are very vague since this gets into an incredibly complicated topic where suddenly you're dealing with the non-Monotheistic Christians from the Council of Nicea, the Christians who believe all physical things including the body of Jesus are fundamentally evil, the Irish Christians who got off the rails, and then trying to deal with a reality where not only non-Abrahamic beliefs survived into the modern day through much of the world, but also all of the internally conflicting traditions within the Abrahamic faiths did as well.

        So, yes, the Abrahamic faiths reached the same height of popularity, but there are subtle tweaks to things so that other faiths are not wiped out, and also so that all the various forms of these Abrahamic faiths survive as well which is really complicated.
        See, here I have a large problem of perceiving the World of Scion. You see, in Poland, we are almost strictly Christian, mainly Catholic. ( Catholic Church is using numbers of baptized people, and it's circa 90% - few other procent is from others Christian denominations. We may have about 1% of local neopagans. ) And you say in World, 'pagan' Gods would survive in Poland. That mean we would have Slavic Gods temples, on streets. And seeing as how Catholic Church is working in Poland - I REALLY question how those religions would not fight directly. Not too mention how many Slavic Gods worshipers should be in the Scion World, where IRL we have almost only Christians here.

        That's why Scion World idea is so hard for me to grasp as setting. ( And probably others people from strictly-Abrahamic religions raised countries. )

        Originally posted by Watcher View Post
        It just works. It is impossible, clearly, but the sun is ten thousand different things, so are the stars, the moon, everything. Humanity are forged of stolen bones, of mud and dirt, the heirs of Adam, and the children of Heimdall. Scion is a game of contested realities, of thousands of impossible intersecting cosmologies. It will not make sense, and that is what is amazing about it.
        Okay, I'm baffled here - but also marked interested. HOW is shown in game those intersecting cosmologies? Cause 'we are one family of Gods, you are other family of Gods' do not really change anything - real cosmology can be very much one, only each family of Gods says their own myths. But reality is still stable.
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-17-2018, 04:45 PM.


        My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
        LGBT+ in CoD games

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        • #5
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          Not too mention how many Slavic Gods worshipers should be in the Scion World, where IRL we have almost only Christians here.

          That's why Scion World idea is so hard for me to grasp as setting. ( And probably others people from strictly-Abrahamic religions raised countries. )
          I think there's going to be an attempt at a Slavic-inspired Pantheon in Demigod.

          Now the Origin book DOES mention that there's certain territories in the World where it's clear that one Pantheon is in charge. For instance, over in Athens, Scions of Athena are known and are often given special recognition. In Kyoto, the Kami are a known thing.

          If it helps, remember that the First Commandment, in the translation I'm familiar with, is "I Am The Lord Thy God, Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me", which in the World could be read to mean less "There are no other Gods" but more "Worship me over any others"

          As established in the other thread, the Abrahamic religions ARE a major power force in Scion. So yeah, Christian Churches are everywhere. But the situation is a bit less "We stomped out everything" and more "We appeared and settled in... And now there's a ceasefire going on"

          (Also, don't worry about being less of a nerd than Watcher, dude's literally going to school for Irish Folklore. :P)


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            Sorry, I'm Catholic raised Agnostic from Poland myself - I just equate Monotheism with Abrahamic religions, in my mind. And I'm a mythology nerd, but clearly not enough as much as you. Yeah, when writing about Monotheism I meant Abrahamic religions. Sorry for mistake.
            No worries, I absolutely understand for most people Monotheism is very much hedged in Abrahamic faiths. One of the huge benefits of Scion is getting to learn about all these fun complex details, such as how the Theoi have considerably more ambient spirits than the Japanese despite what pop-culture would suggest.

            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            See, here I have a large problem of perceiving the World of Scion. You see, in Poland, we are almost strictly Christian, mainly Catholic. ( Catholic Church is using numbers of baptized people, and it's circa 90% - few other procent is from others Christian denominations. We may have about 1% of local neopagans. ) And you say in World, 'pagan' Gods would survive in Poland. That mean we would have Slavic Gods temples, on streets. And seeing as how Catholic Church is working in Poland - I REALLY question how those religions would not fight directly. Not too mention how many Slavic Gods worshipers should be in the Scion World, where IRL we have almost only Christians here.

            That's why Scion World idea is so hard for me to grasp as setting. ( And probably others people from strictly-Abrahamic religions raised countries. )
            This is a part of 'The World' setting that Scion asks you not to think about too much, it's actually the smallest aspect of the larger issue of historical knock-on effects caused by this one small change. There are many different answers you can come up with for this, the one I would suggest is that Saint Augustine of Hippo or one of the other major early Church scholars who defined much of how Christianity understood the world (such as how he enshrined an opposition to abortion based on a rule about paying a fine if you knock over someone's pregnant wife) focused on the specific phrasing of the Ten Commandments that were given to Moses. Just say, "Saint Augustine of Hippo established a tradition in early Christian thought that used a hyper-literal reading of the Commandment "Thou Shalt Have No Gods Before Me," which never precludes the existence of others. Then this has influence on the development of Islam, and bing bang boom, you're done.

            Now, the absolutely monumental historical changes this would cause are literally too big to ever explore, and Scion just asks you gloss over it. For this reason I don't actually use the cannon setting, I have a massive document filled with my setting information I use brought over form 1e, but for RAW 2e this is how they go about it.

            So, while non-Abrahamic faiths would survive and flourish in modern day Poland in The World, there would be no conflict as there is an established force in Christian thought developed by Saint Augustine of Hippo incredibly early in the development of Christianity that says they shouldn't have any conflict. There's many other explanations you can come up with if you want, find the one that works for your game.

            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            Okay, I'm baffled here - but also marked interested. HOW is shown in game those intersecting cosmologies? Cause 'we are one family of Gods, you are other family of Gods' do not really change anything - real cosmology can be very much one, only each family of Gods says their own myths. But reality is still stable.
            The game has not yet reached the tier of play where this will become incredibly important (God-tier) so we have no specific deals about it yet. I did a whole thing for 1e where I explained it, and we will probably never get exact rules for this as this is in the realm of "so complicated you could write several PhDs on each Pantheon in play" about it. The way I run it is simple, if a Player wants to do something that is more in-line with their Pantheon's Cosmology than reality or another Pantheon's Cosmology they make a Legend roll against the highest Legend being present. If they succeed, they can just manage to slip their own version of reality into dominance about it.

            So, if the Theoi Scion watches their Kami Scion friend die, they can try to do this to ensure their friend goes to Hades where it's wildly easy to just leave, compared to Jigoku which is borderline impossible to get them back out of. Or a Túatha Dé Danann Scion might hack the brain of an enemy to shreds to try to prevent them from ever being resurrected. That sort of thing. You can see how complicated this can get and why we may never get exact rules on the subject as it would be impossible to do a comprehensive list.

            The way it works is just saying it works. Scion is a game of myths, they don't make sense and are rarely explained. Reality is stable for the moment, what is, is. But, at the same time every part of existence everywhere is simultaneously contradictory things. The sun is pulled through the sky by Apollo, it is rolled across the sky by a giant dung beetle, it is held in place where Xhyuua placed it during the events of Raven Traveling, it is a woman on horseback fleeing a hungry wolf, it is a woman with a torch fleeing her rapist brother, it is carried on the back of Huitzilopochtli and an infinite number of other things.

            On top of that, a lot of Pantheons probably don't consider all the other Pantheons actually Gods, as 'what is a God' changes from Pantheon to Pantheon. The Theoi, for instance, have Gods who are living personifications who wear people-suits when they can be bothered that are eternal and undying. The Túatha Dé Danann on the other hand are people who are supernaturally skilled with professions who are almost all dead because mortals killed them.

            Embrace the fact that none of this can be explained and makes no logical sense. Myths don't, there's no system or unity, even inside a cultural tradition. Embrace the disharmony, and Scion will flower.

            Edit: A possible way to explain this is to think of each Pantheon and their world as the light shining through a colored disk of glass. The World is the result of all of these infinite layers of glass being placed on top of each other and the light shining through these infinite layers of color. So while each component color of the world is equally true as the other, they all exist at the same time.
            Last edited by Watcher; 12-17-2018, 05:15 PM.


            Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
            The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire.
            The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples.

            Comment


            • #7
              Watcher, thanks for answers! This unstable reality is probably the thing that puts me off Scion, as I'm more down to Earth guy.

              But tell me, can I realistically run Scion like this: There is common, stable, objective Reality. And then you have Gods. Gods are trying to change Reality, each in the way of their Pantheon, each going for the Myth they are spreading. Until one of Gods do not win in particular scene, Reality is as we know it. So the Sun is our Earth Sun, great fire globe in space, most of the time. But when Helios fights with Horus, Sun changes from light wolf to sky eagle, each time they use Legend?

              Basically, in CoD terms, Gods are (Super) Astral Realms Beings that can make for the scene Reality the same as their Myth?

              But without Gods interventions - how sparse they are - Reality is more or less our real world, correct? So after one scene of 'divine intrvention', World returns to objective facts of our real world propositions?


              My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
              LGBT+ in CoD games

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                Watcher, thanks for answers! This unstable reality is probably the thing that puts me off Scion, as I'm more down to Earth guy.
                I am happy to help! The unstable reality really is a background feature, it's something you will not encounter unless you want to encounter it as the Storyteller and an important rule to remember when homebrewing things. So, for the vast majority you will not run into issues with All Myths Are True unless you actively want to address it in your games.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                But tell me, can I realistically run Scion like this: There is common, stable, objective Reality. And then you have Gods. Gods are trying to change Reality, each in the way of their Pantheon, each going for the Myth they are spreading. Until one of Gods do not win in particular scene, Reality is as we know it. So the Sun is our Earth Sun, great fire globe in space, most of the time. But when Helios fights with Horus, Sun changes from light wolf to sky eagle, each time they use Legend?

                Basically, in CoD terms, Gods are (Super) Astral Realms Beings that can make for the scene Reality the same as their Myth?
                You can run Scion however you like. There may be rules that disagree with this at God-tier, but that won't be out for years so it's nothing to worry about for the moment. I personally would never run a Scion game like this, Scion is not CoD at all, it is intentionally designed differently with... like, literally fundamentally different themes, if not diametrically opposed ones. So, I would never ever run a Scion game using the method that CoD does as I would feel incredibly uncomfortable with it and it would break from the main reasons I play Scion.

                But, anyone can run a game as they want. You will not be running a standard Scion game, but that is fine. I do not run standard Scion games, nobody really does. Run the game in the way you want and the way your players want and just... really try to be respectful to the religions and histories the game deals with. There is a lot more weight to what Scion uses than CoD in a cultural sense, the most we can do is strive to care for the religions used in Scion for our enjoyment.

                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                But without Gods interventions - how sparse they are - Reality is more or less our real world, correct? So after one scene of 'divine intrvention', World returns to objective facts of our real world propositions?
                RAW? Yes and No, The World is always under the effects of All Myths Are True. It sort of 'appears' to be the normal world we reside in, the sun just looks like our sun, but it isn't. Things pretty much work like they do in our real world on the surface level, but the details of things has it diverge and gets into the 'This varies by Pantheon' area. The specifics and details of this will be addressed in Scion: God. If you want to run it differently you totally can. This is just within the realm of what you want to do as a Storyteller.

                In my games? It depends a lot about what's going on and is honestly overly complicated because it's just intended for me to use rather than sane and sensible people.
                Last edited by Watcher; 12-17-2018, 07:19 PM.


                Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire.
                The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Watcher, thanks for answers! This unstable reality is probably the thing that puts me off Scion, as I'm more down to Earth guy.

                  But tell me, can I realistically run Scion like this: There is common, stable, objective Reality. And then you have Gods. Gods are trying to change Reality, each in the way of their Pantheon, each going for the Myth they are spreading. Until one of Gods do not win in particular scene, Reality is as we know it. So the Sun is our Earth Sun, great fire globe in space, most of the time. But when Helios fights with Horus, Sun changes from light wolf to sky eagle, each time they use Legend?

                  Basically, in CoD terms, Gods are (Super) Astral Realms Beings that can make for the scene Reality the same as their Myth?

                  But without Gods interventions - how sparse they are - Reality is more or less our real world, correct? So after one scene of 'divine intrvention', World returns to objective facts of our real world propositions?
                  It might help if you stop thinking of Scion's World as unstable... it is, in fact, quite stable, just in about a thousand different ways. Ra, Helios, Surya, Amaterasu, Sol etc aren't fighting with each other to determine who steers the Sun... they're all individually doing their own thing, and the Sun moves across the sky as a result.

                  You can run Scion that way, since you can run Scion most anyway you like, but that approach is going counter to one of 2e's most important baseline assumptions... the Gods are Gods... they are Divine Beings worshiped by billions not just in history but even now. They are not the products of Human imagination, Humans are the product of Divine Will.

                  As for Divine Interventions, Scion's reasoning for the God's not intervening too deeply in general (there is huge variance of this between Pantheons, if you look at their myths) is that when humans perceive Gods doing things, they form expectations and the Gods bound into fulfilling those expectations in the future. This leads to two important consequences:

                  1. None of the Sun Gods would have any problems whatsoever steering the Sun, because people expect them to do this already. They would not be risking anything by doing this, and therefore they do it without issues. Same with Storm Gods controlling the weather, Warrior Gods fighting and Death Gods judging. The problem only arises if the Sun God decides he's going to be a Frost God now.

                  2. Spreading false rumours about the Gods does nothing... they have to have actually done something in order to be bound by it, meaning Kali is unchanged by Temple of Doom bullshit.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    [*]EVERY myth is true – So World is at the same time A Disk, Giant Turtle and Globe Held By Atlas? How does this work?
                    (minor note: In actual myth, Atlas holds up the sky, not the Earth)

                    Quantum Uncertainty on a macro scale. In terms of how that plays out in game, it depends on the angle from which you interact with the thing. If you travel up into space by rocket obeying the laws of physics as mortal scientists understand them, you'll ender a vacuum and see the Earth as a globe with an eliptical orbit around the sun, etc etc. If you fly up on a Vimana given to you by a Deva, you're more likely to find the whole world expanding from Mount Meru on the back of a great turtle. You can physically interact with Atlas holding up the sky in the Hesperides - but of course the Hesperides are Terra Incognita that are completely governed by the mythic cosmology of the Theoi.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    See, here I have a large problem of perceiving the World of Scion. You see, in Poland, we are almost strictly Christian, mainly Catholic. ( Catholic Church is using numbers of baptized people, and it's circa 90% - few other procent is from others Christian denominations. We may have about 1% of local neopagans. ) And you say in World, 'pagan' Gods would survive in Poland. That mean we would have Slavic Gods temples, on streets. And seeing as how Catholic Church is working in Poland - I REALLY question how those religions would not fight directly. Not too mention how many Slavic Gods worshipers should be in the Scion World, where IRL we have almost only Christians here.

                    That's why Scion World idea is so hard for me to grasp as setting. ( And probably others people from strictly-Abrahamic religions raised countries. )
                    Yes, dominant religions have to be more tolerant of religious diversity in the World than in reality. It's an unavoidable reality of Scions walking around and bringing the wrath of [insert specific heaven] down on you when you try to outlaw their Cults. I don't see the downside to this - as an ethnically-Polish Jew myself, that increased tolerance of religious diversity to me seems a definite plus for Poland.

                    Catholicism is still the dominant religion in Poland in the World, but by necessity there is a general tolerance of the cults of the old gods. Priests preach against polytheism, but it's still a commonly accepted thing for people to make the casual offering to the right deity when in need, that you might confess and do penance for later.


                    Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                    • #11
                      The World is a little like a gem with one facet for each belief system, whenever you interact with that belief system you the the World through that facet. It's a little weird and makes me wonder what occurs to the world when disaster hits only one pantheon (say Apophis eats Ra but apollo is doing just fine, what happens to the sun?)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                        I don't see the downside to this - as an ethnically-Polish Jew myself, that increased tolerance of religious diversity to me seems a definite plus for Poland.

                        Catholicism is still the dominant religion in Poland in the World, but by necessity there is a general tolerance of the cults of the old gods. Priests preach against polytheism, but it's still a commonly accepted thing for people to make the casual offering to the right deity when in need, that you might confess and do penance for later.
                        I know it's worst kind of questions, but to me it's cructial to imagening the World - I wrote circa real life percentages of worshipers in Poland. How would they look like in Scion World? With actove Slavic Gods, Christanity would not have as much population as now. I could even argue that country is split between Old Gods and One God...


                        My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                        LGBT+ in CoD games

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          I know it's worst kind of questions, but to me it's cructial to imagening the World - I wrote circa real life percentages of worshipers in Poland. How would they look like in Scion World? With actove Slavic Gods, Christanity would not have as much population as now. I could even argue that country is split between Old Gods and One God...
                          This is all in the realm of "It really depends on your individual setting," and something I think Onyx Path will never directly address since dealing with numbers in official publications is just asking for something to make zero sense or have really weird breakdowns.

                          However, keep in mind that there also may be a reduced hegemony of Christianity in Poland. While Christianity may be popular, think of all the internal factions within it that would appear. Every little regional rural cult that cropped up in the medieval period that incorporated beliefs from Christianity as well as local traditional beliefs could still have followers, every heretical movement that ever reached Poland may still have followers.

                          I would suggest you don't think about it like One God v. Old Gods, but an absolute mess of tangled threads, some interwoven, some cut, some never mingling. In a world where All Myths Are True, the Supremacy of Rome is almost invariably untrue as every single Heretical movement has their own fact backing them up. Don't think of 'Christianity' as a single monolithic force, think of Christianity, Catharism, Docetism, Monarchianism, Monothelitism, Pelagianism, Marcionism, Jansenism, Waldensians, and then all of the Orthodox Heresies, and then all of the Protestants, and all the regional beliefs too small to ever be branded as Heresy, and then all the other Heretical movements. There is no unity there, but all of them in the world of Scion are equally True to each other, even though they disagree on really fundamental details like the Pelagianists just not believing that Original Sin exists which fucks up like, the whole system.

                          Furthermore, while in your story you could have religious conflict as a main theme, you shouldn't feel forced to it. Hard and fast splits between religions are very uncommon for most of world history and tends to be a very, very modern idea. Just look at the Túatha Dé Danann, they were incorporated into Christian belief and Donn was recieving worship and sacrifices into the 19th century without anyone caring. So, don't feel like you have to do this. If you want for your story, totally, but speaking as a historian you should feel entirely justified in not doing so.


                          Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                          The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire.
                          The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                            I know it's worst kind of questions, but to me it's cructial to imagening the World - I wrote circa real life percentages of worshipers in Poland. How would they look like in Scion World? With actove Slavic Gods, Christanity would not have as much population as now. I could even argue that country is split between Old Gods and One God...
                            At my own table: that data is hard to collect in-setting because Western religious exclusivity is less of a thing. While not as extreme as in East Asia, people can be more than one thing, especially when gods’ existence isn’t a matter of faith but a fact that different religious perspectives have to work around. A lot of people who consider themselves Christians, believe God the Father is the Prime Mover of the universe, and Jesus is their savior... also have house hold alters to the gods of their forefathers and make regular small offerings for things like a profitable quarter, luck in love, etc etc.


                            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                              At my own table: that data is hard to collect in-setting because Western religious exclusivity is less of a thing. While not as extreme as in East Asia, people can be more than one thing, especially when gods’ existence isn’t a matter of faith but a fact that different religious perspectives have to work around. A lot of people who consider themselves Christians, believe God the Father is the Prime Mover of the universe, and Jesus is their savior... also have house hold alters to the gods of their forefathers and make regular small offerings for things like a profitable quarter, luck in love, etc etc.
                              But would not this lead to only lip service for particular Pantheon? Like 'I'm most of the time Christian, but when needing good rain, I will go to mine families shrine to Zeus and pray for storm.' Then Jesus is not 'one before all' and Zeus get's only prayer once or twice per season...


                              My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                              LGBT+ in CoD games

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