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  • #76
    OK. If you really, really have to have a "Masquerade" to make sense of The World not having an alternate history that's utterly unrecognizable from our own, the only way to do it in my opinion is by having the PCs be the first Scions in millennia. To pull that off you have to come up with some excuse as to why the Gods abandoned The World and took all their centaurs, giants and lungs dragons along with them. Fear of Fatebinding is an obvious, if lame, answer but you could also explain away their absence by saying they were preoccupied fighting the Primordials/Titans in the Overworld for millennia. Either way, you can then explain their return to The World by having the Primordials/Titans break out of whatever trap they were in and start to influence The World themselves thus forcing the Gods to create new Scions.

    Of course, even with this "Masquerade" (which honestly isn't even one) in place, the return of Scions and magic to The World is going to immediately be noticed by humanity, the very mechanics of the game pretty much demand it and it would be nonsensical for the Gods to not want to be recognized as a force of power in The World again.

    Honestly, the only interesting difference in this scenario compared to the standard premise of 2e is that giants rampaging in Times Square isn't normal here and the PCs are now extra special because people with magical superpowers hasn't been a thing for ages. Plus, I think you could get a lot of narrative mileage out of a world where normal people slowly to come to grips that magic and Zeus are totally real, which can be both amusing and terrifying depending on how you want to play it.

    But even so, I still say just don't think about it.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Weirdboyz View Post
      OK. If you really, really have to have a "Masquerade" to make sense of The World not having an alternate history that's utterly unrecognizable from our own, the only way to do it in my opinion is by having the PCs be the first Scions in millennia. To pull that off you have to come up with some excuse as to why the Gods abandoned The World and took all their centaurs, giants and lungs dragons along with them. Fear of Fatebinding is an obvious, if lame, answer but you could also explain away their absence by saying they were preoccupied fighting the Primordials/Titans in the Overworld for millennia. Either way, you can then explain their return to The World by having the Primordials/Titans break out of whatever trap they were in and start to influence The World themselves thus forcing the Gods to create new Scions.

      Of course, even with this "Masquerade" (which honestly isn't even one) in place, the return of Scions and magic to The World is going to immediately be noticed by humanity, the very mechanics of the game pretty much demand it and it would be nonsensical for the Gods to not want to be recognized as a force of power in The World again.

      Honestly, the only interesting difference in this scenario compared to the standard premise of 2e is that giants rampaging in Times Square isn't normal here and the PCs are now extra special because people with magical superpowers hasn't been a thing for ages. Plus, I think you could get a lot of narrative mileage out of a world where normal people slowly to come to grips that magic and Zeus are totally real, which can be both amusing and terrifying depending on how you want to play it.

      But even so, I still say just don't think about it.
      Which also doesn't cover the issue that the titans and gods aren't at war in many of the pantheons and the primordials aren't at war with anybody in any of them as far as I know.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Thrythlind View Post

        Which also doesn't cover the issue that the titans and gods aren't at war in many of the pantheons and the primordials aren't at war with anybody in any of them as far as I know.

        Yep. That's why I said you still shouldn't bother even trying make sense of it.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Watcher View Post
          I mean, we have Word Of God on this matter, Neall as the head developer of Scion has flatly said that there is no Masqurade in Scion. You are welcome to argue with him, but... I mean, it's his product, and he is including sections in upcoming books to help people put the Masqurade back in the game, which suggests that it is not there in the first place. (...) You are of course free to implement one, but you are getting something from the text that the authors of the text intentionally did not put in.
          Okay, I will not argue with main line developer on his setting - I will just use my 'counter-points' to Gods in Hiding hack-topic. I would ask if you could point there in future then tibits from the Scion supplements that points to Masquarede for Gods, as I will probably not invest more in Scion gameline if not having proper hooks for expanding this ideas. I understand it will simply be big setting hack, in the end.

          Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
          First you have the Legend score.
          When you arrive to the tier of Hero you gain a Legend score that go from 1 (at the beginning) to 4 after that you get at the Demigod tier and then at the God tier for a legend score up to 12 (think the Trimurti of the Deva or Zeus of the Theoi).
          (...)

          So i'd say that at Legend 4 with your own Wikipedia page any pretense at a masquerade is pretty futile.
          Good to know. I will take this mechanics in consideration when doing hack.

          Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
          At Hero, the effects of having Fatebindings are almost entirely positive. Now we know that as you grow stronger and more legendary fatebindings become more ... well binding and start to direct your legends in ways you may not want. That is the reasons the Gods avoid it. But avoiding fatebindings doesnt mean hiding themselves it just mean either limiting interactions or ensuring that interactions they have make sense for their legend so that nothing knew gets started.
          Now it is still unknown how exactly (both mechanicaly and narratively) fatebindings affect the Scion at Demigod and God tier.
          Will wait then to at least to Demigod level to decide if Scion is game for me, then.

          Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
          Now because of these, i think it is almost impossible for any scion to hold a "masquerade" for any tier beyond the Origin.
          Originally posted by Weirdboyz View Post
          OK. If you really, really have to have a "Masquerade" to make sense of The World not having an alternate history that's utterly unrecognizable from our own, the only way to do it in my opinion is by having the PCs be the first Scions in millennia. To pull that off you have to come up with some excuse as to why the Gods abandoned The World and took all their centaurs, giants and lungs dragons along with them. Fear of Fatebinding is an obvious, if lame, answer but you could also explain away their absence by saying they were preoccupied fighting the Primordials/Titans in the Overworld for millennia. Either way, you can then explain their return to The World by having the Primordials/Titans break out of whatever trap they were in and start to influence The World themselves thus forcing the Gods to create new Scions.
          Okay, I will take that probably with idea that Scions are just started to coming to the world, in new Mythic Age. But yes, I see that Scions basically cannot work with Legend on the Earth without being 'shown' on the long term - and there, with Gods as as being in the open. It seems 'all or nothing' scenario by mechanics and setting.


          My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
            Not to mention - isn't it counterintuitive to play a game about Gods and legends, and then hide them and presume they are essentially irrelevant to history? If I play Champions, it's because I want a superhero game, not a game about normal folks no-one has heard of.
            2 things if i may.

            1. I don't get why hide the or make them irrelevant to history. The point is that they are relevant to history. You don't even need to invent stuff. In this very thread people talked about Julius Caesar. In our actual history he did claim to be a scion of Venus and he was worshipped after his death. Scion would change absolutely nothing about that part of our history. A very big part of our actual history is mythology really.

            2. I feel that people are going way too literal on the "like our world" thing. I personally just took it to mean that there are cars and cellphones. I mean maybe its not called Google but instead Ibis. Maybe there are cities that don't exist in our world or heck even countries. If i remember right both the DC and Marvel earth are like that and that doesnt stop them from being "like our world".
            The thing, to me, is meant that if you got isekai'd into the World (of scion) it could take a few days before you start seeing the differences.
            Heck i'll be honest as a storyguide for a currently running game of scion one of my favorite thing is making small changes, like company names or car names that have a mythological link.


            Currently running: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 2year old daughter and a newborn son.

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            • #81
              I'm shocked no one of you pointed me to the Myth Levels Update from coming Scion 2E Companion.

              Cause as you probably read before - I would run game in Iron, maybe going into Heroic Myth level - and Gods interactions would work with that. However how ease this change will be shown in Companion, I will probably there have anything needed to run the game with 'Gods in Hiding' trope, literally. If centaurs can be bikers - I'm all good to run game I would like, probably. Last sentence of the quote is literally how I would wanted to run the game in the first place.

              Originally posted by Myth Levels preview
              CHAPTER ONE: MYTH LEVEL

              The Myth Level is five options along four axes of design, meant to allow the Storyguide to choose how many of Scion’s setting “dials” they want to crank. This chapter lays out what each of those dials looks like at each of the five Myth Levels. Those Myth Levels are:
              • Iron: Perfectly mundane. Very similar in nature and tone to Gaiman’s American Gods, where ifriti are cab drivers, Odhinn is a shiftless wandering con man, and Chernobog and the goddesses of dawn, midday and evening are poor immigrants scraping by in a shitty apartment in Chicago.
              • Heroic: Mostly mundane, but with room for great acts of heroism. Most supernatural creatures still have mundane manifestations here (that centaur is still just a biker here), but Scions and gods may appear as impressive and tremendous – Aphrodite isn’t some burnt out barfly here, she’s drop-dead gorgeous and probably on fashion covers. This is the level of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
              • Bronze: This is where the supernatural really comes into play. Creatures of Legend shed their mundane disguises in areas of Bronze Myth, and appear in their true nature. Magic becomes overt here, and Demigods wield their true power. This is Clash of the Titans territory, and there might just actually be dragons in that undetailed area of the map.
              • Silver: Past the threshold of urban myth and getting into epic fantasy, places of Silver Myth are deeply resonant with Myth. They are often fanciful places and hidden vales of magic technically found in the World, but not of it. The power of a creature of Legend is reflected in its appearance – the mightier the entity, the more impressive it appears. Zelazny’s Lord of Light goes into this area of Myth in its narrative.
              • Gold: Flat-out mythological, where symbolism is the same as its reality. Places of Gold Myth are not even of this World. Lots of Scion 1e went into this territory, with its otherworldly locales, and lots of fantasy that touches on extradimensional areas and the like qualify.
              The trick is this: you should be able to choose a starting Myth Level and then turn each dial up or down within that level to taste. So, for instance, as Storyguide I might choose to start at the Iron Level but crank the Titanomachy up, turning American Gods into a raging shadow war that you have to keep peeling back layers of the World to see.
              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-01-2019, 12:13 PM.


              My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
              LGBT+ in CoD games

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              • #82
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                I'm shocked no one of you pointed me to the Myth Levels Update from coming Scion 2E Companion.
                Myself and Maitrecorbo both referenced it.

                Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
                It is also worth to note that the "presence of the mythic" is a concept that can be dialed up or down depending on the need of your game. The storytelling section on the books touch upon this a bit and i think the companion will go more into detail.
                Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                and he is including sections in upcoming books to help people put the Masqurade back in the game, which suggests that it is not there in the first place.


                Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire, The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples, The Sgā’na Qeda’s: the Pantheon of the Haida First Nation, The Abosom: The Pantheon of the Ashanti, Lebor Óe In Dea: an Expansion for the Túatha Dé Danann.

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                • #83
                  Okay, mentioning was, mea culpa. Better was just pointing me and others to whole preview blog post. Now I have at least language to describe what game on default is - Bronze Myth level - and what I will probably run it - Iron, maybe Heroic Myth level. Now we can easily talk about it.
                  Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-01-2019, 02:01 PM.


                  My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                  LGBT+ in CoD games

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                  • #84
                    Ok, a read thru a lot of crazy things here, but I have an opinion about the World as it is written: it’s a matter of perspective.
                    The last few days I have really being into this Orisha thing, because it is our world and is easy for me to find it all around me. If you start paying attention around you you will find signals of the presence of the Orishas around you here in Brazil, even in São Paulo that is quite white-washed, not the gods Orishas, but the cults of the Orishas, Umbanda and Candomblé. If you don’t pay any attention on it, you won’t find any, you must know what you are looking for, maybe you can’t miss it in Salvador, as it is really the Brazilian capital of Afro-Brazilian religions, but not here in São Paulo. If you go thru the point of view of the cultists (to use the game term, as they have a recognized religion here) we live in a Bronze Myth Level, the gods don’t show up, but their magic is everywhere, they ride mortals, they drop hints of its presence and all, just the way the Romans believed they’re gods did, with omens and all. You will find people here (more in Salvador than any other place in Brazil) saying they are sons and daughters of Orishas, and you can find Macumba (offers to the gods) quite often on the corners of less populated streets. You will not find a big Cathedral, but will find a few altars and Terreiros (places of adoration of the Orishas) and you will find people praying for Ogun inside a Catholic Church because there is a Saint George figure there.
                    Just put this way, in the World, the gods exist as they do to the religious people, but most people just don’t care enough to find the clue of their existence beyond myth.
                    The description of the Legend dots just make a mess in game terms, but they literally use the same descriptors that used on 1e, and nobody cared about that in 1e. Fatebinding is the reason the Scions don’t show up on TV, if they use powers in front of people they are bound to them, but the ones that see a Scion using their powers and tell the others about end up creating urban legends and creep pasta, what build to their legends.

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                    • #85
                      Just caught up with the thread. My take is that, say, Christianity has a lot more syncretism than in our world, especially in Europe and North America (as pointed out above, such syncretism is already common in other parts of our world).

                      And while I am not particularly well-versed in Islamic theology, I think Islam acknowledges the existence of supernatural beings in the form of djinn - it just considers any kind of interaction between humans and djinn to be improper. Yet even in the real world, folk beliefs in the Islamic world ignore this prohibition.

                      Thus, I'd say that in the World the monotheistic faiths acknowledge the existence of these beings but do not recognize them as the equal of an all-powerful God, who alone has true moral authority on what constitutes proper behavior. That they frequently look away when it comes to folk worship of these other beings is largely realpolitik.


                      Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles is creating Public Domain translations of German folklore!

                      A German Geek - my gaming blog!

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post

                        Thus, I'd say that in the World the monotheistic faiths acknowledge the existence of these beings but do not recognize them as the equal of an all-powerful God, who alone has true moral authority on what constitutes proper behavior. That they frequently look away when it comes to folk worship of these other beings is largely realpolitik.

                        "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"

                        In other words, the Abrahamic faiths don't outright deny the existence of other deities. They just regard their own deity as having more authority than everyone else.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                          Cause as you probably read before - I would run game in Iron, maybe going into Heroic Myth level
                          Thank you for that chapter quote!

                          Personally, I'd prefer 2nd edition games to function around the Bronze level by default. To me, it simply makes the most amount of sense, that if the Gods never retreated from the world, and everybody knows that they exist, then myths, magic and the supernatural would likewise be out in the open. Instead of trying to conceal their presence from a world that already acknowledges their existence.

                          Silver and Gold levels would also be fun at times, since the descriptions alone have already made me start imagining ideas for high fantasy adventure novels.
                          Last edited by Nyrufa; 06-11-2019, 06:57 PM.

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                          • #88
                            I kinda figured something along the lines of how magic was treated Johnathon Strange and Mr. Norell, basically a big incredible thing that happened long ago and with records to prove but really hasn't popped up as of late.

                            And like people mostly turned to monotheism because mainly the other gods mostly seemed to have "went away".
                            Last edited by Voltron64; 06-15-2019, 01:26 AM.

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                            • #89
                              Anime is real. Just check out this fight between two Kitsune as they prepare to go full power!

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