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Folkloric beings becoming Gods.

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  • Folkloric beings becoming Gods.

    There are folkloric beings in this setting with high levels of legend. Gods remembered as creatures of fairy tale. Scions moving from hero to deity. So the status of "God" has a certain mutability. Legend is somehow tied to human perceptions and ideals. So propose a creature of Folklore, for example, Oberon, deciding that he wants to move from Lesser Immortal to Deity. He can use his powers, Oberon would have several purviews including Magic, Health, Fertility, and Sky, he could easily convince a group of Wiccans he's a deity and gain worship.

    Could Oberon become a god?

    Could the survivors of fallen Pantheons return to godhood?

    What are the limits and rules?

  • #2
    I can only imagine we'll learn more about this when we get the God book and have rules for Demigods achieving Apotheosis.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #3
      I suppose yes, a mythical being could try to become a god, as long as he has a legend rating. But, as far as I got, when you got to the God level, you cant be ungodified. Even if their pantheon is destroyed, and their followers killed or converted, and their existence utterly forgot, they are still there, being. They are not tied to mortals to fuel their existence.

      Which creates the potential interesting idea of Gods of forgotten pantheons still wandering around, forgotten, but still godly powerful.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Manbat View Post
        I suppose yes, a mythical being could try to become a god, as long as he has a legend rating. But, as far as I got, when you got to the God level, you cant be ungodified. Even if their pantheon is destroyed, and their followers killed or converted, and their existence utterly forgot, they are still there, being. They are not tied to mortals to fuel their existence.

        Which creates the potential interesting idea of Gods of forgotten pantheons still wandering around, forgotten, but still godly powerful.
        Well I mean, the Nemetondevos are a dead pantheon. I think they'll be reincarnating but they certainly lost a lot of what they are.


        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          You can be “ungodified” if you're killed. Sure, another “you” can be born as an Incarnate; but the Incarnate starts out as a mortal and has to work through the various Tiers before reclaiming Godhood.

          That said, it's possible to be an Incarnate because Mantles don't go away when you die. At least, not right away… I figure that the Nemetondevos have been able to return because their Mantles haven't faded yet; but there might be older Pantheons that have been destroyed completely, up to and including the eventual loss of their Mantles.

          That said, I figure that the degradation of Mantles, if it happens, is probably memory-related rather than time-related: sort of like the ghosts in Coco, the Mantle sticks around for as long as people remember it. As such, and assuming that the World of Scion includes the same myths that our world does, I'm not going to be able to give you an example of a Pantheon that has been well and truly destroyed with no hope of ever coming back: by definition, if I can recall a Pantheon, there's enough of it left for at least some of its Gods to eventually Incarnate.


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          • #6
            What about pantheons where we know that one existed, but we don't know anything about it, not even the deities' names? For instance, the Olmec and Pictish pantheons are ones I suspect are absolutely gone for good.

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            • #7
              While Oberon is almost purely a literary figure rather than any kind of mythic one, that's hardly stopped stuff like Camelot from existing.

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              • #8
                I meant ungodified in the sense of going down on the legend level and going back to be a demigod and eventually mortal. So, if someone attains the God level, he is stuck there and, unless actively killed or destroyed, he is still a God., and lord of some aspect of the world.

                I agree, if a God dies he can incarnate, but that is something else altogether, because it is another person.

                The Nementedevos are not the same Gods as before, specially if you think on then as a group, but everything I saw about then lead me to believe they are still Gods, even if in hiding and probably badly hurt. They should be as much powerful as any other Gods.

                We dont know enough about how mantles work, so if they keep existing after the God is forgotten is an interesting question. Also, can a God exist without a mantle? For example, it has been mentioned Aphrodite has two origin stories because she was a previous daughter of Uranus, and then she passed the mantle to a daughter of Zeus. But could that other Aphrodite, daughter of Uranus, still be hanging around in some Terra Incognita? Does she keeps the Purview's and general powers or are those tied to the Mantle? Could two Mantles of the same deity have different purview`s? What is a Mantleless God? Interesting questions indeed.

                If I would have to house rule it right now, I would go with: Mantles doesnt fade away, and neither does Gods, and most just go away, to their Terra Incognita, if they became forget, maybe returning if Rediscovered. And some forgotten Gods of Forgotten Pantheons might still walk over the world, enjoying their Godly Cosmic Powers and their immortality, but staying out of most Pantheons radars, just to be safe.

                About the being an literally creature, Legend ties to anything that has a base in reality and grows from there, retroactively changing stuff to fit it (a scion of Tyr trains a bunch of falcons, when Godfied, he is (and has always been) God of the Falcons, and was trained they so well because he was raised by falcons). So, if ever was anything in what Arthur was based, and a city were he lived, that could have became, due to belief, into Camelot. If Oberon was base on anything (and on the Scion world, wouldnt surprise me Shakespeare actually meet a fairy named Oberon) it could be raised by the general belief.

                Also, is valid to point that, as far as I got, belief doesnt actually changes reality. It just overlaps another level of reality over reality. There is Arthurs original city and there is Camelot, both exist, maybe on the same place, but the original city didnt actually became Camelot. Camelot appeared over that idea, and it has became a different local, that is also Arthurs city.

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                • #9
                  Can folklore generate a mantle without a being as a basis? I don't expect an answer anytime soon, but it is a far more interesting question to me.


                  Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                  • #10
                    If there is no basis, I dont think the folkloric creature would exist. Are you asking about a completely made-up creature?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Manbat View Post
                      If there is no basis, I dont think the folkloric creature would exist. Are you asking about a completely made-up creature?
                      Sort of? Basically urban legend spontaneously becoming a denizen or even Scion. Just starts out as a rumour then Fate starts binding itself around the stories...


                      Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                      • #12
                        But even Urban Legends have a base. "Secret Tunnels leading to Secret Societies under NY": NY has a confusing and labyrinthic sewer system, and probably thousands of homeless people live there. "Bloody Mary is a ghost that appears on Mirrors to answers question" looking at a mirror in a dark room for long might make you have small confusions and hallucinations to see weird face on the mirror. "Bermuda Triangle", before the whole theory there was some disappearances on the general place where is the Bermuda Triangle.

                        I dont think there is a urban myth, or myth for that matter, that organically started without some bases. Unless it was conscientiously created without any bases, like if someone creating a rumor that, by luck, spread out and grows. In this case I think fate wouldn't make it true. But that is just as far as I know.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MorsRattus View Post
                          While Oberon is almost purely a literary figure rather than any kind of mythic one,

                          Are you saying that Disney's Gargoyles lied to me about him being Odin's father?🤔


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Manbat View Post
                            If there is no basis, I dont think the folkloric creature would exist. Are you asking about a completely made-up creature?

                            Jack Forst in the Ragnarok book is treated as real in setting as is Hamlet (who is presented as a corrupted scion). Iris, who did have shrines in the later classical period seems to have started as a preclassical literary figure. And she's listed as one of the premiere Psychopomps of the Greek pantheon.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post


                              Are you saying that Disney's Gargoyles lied to me about him being Odin's father?🤔
                              I'm afraid I have bad news for you about Titania being British as well.

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