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[2E] Bogovi - Slavic Pantheon

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  • [2E] Bogovi - Slavic Pantheon

    As Polish (possible) Storyguide of Scion, I have very personal connection to Slavic Gods - and want to include them in my game, later this year. As Demigod book with them is probably much later in writing, I'm not sure we will have official write-up for 2E till then. So I start this topic for maybe fan updating 1E Pantheon to 2E rules - and to talk in general on the Slavic Gods.

    But first things first - From my knowledge of Slavic languages ( Polish and a bit Russian ) and studies of Proto-Slavic, general term for Gods - and by this name for Pantheon - should be Bogi. 'Bogovi' sounds like anglicized Russian\Polish word 'Bogowie' that is modern world for Gods - not from Pro-Slavic reconstruction that 'Bogi' comes, as 'purer' in Slavic roots. It's a nitpick, but mark that when I write 'Bogi' I mean the Pantheon that in Scion 1E was named as 'Bogovi'.

    Now, serious question - Where in 1E Scion gameline 'Bogi'/'Bogovi' were described in detail? As I will mine this source first, for game related content.


    My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Now, serious question - Where in 1E Scion gameline 'Bogi'/'Bogovi' were described in detail? As I will mine this source first, for game related content.
    I wish you the best of luck dealing with the Slavic sources! They are... notoriously challenging with less resources than the infamous Nemetondevos, and riddled with modern era nationalistic fictions sadly.

    They were first proposed in Scion: Companion for 1e, but nothing short of a simple series of names was given as part of a very simple guide for how to build your own Pantheon. I highly suggest you ignore everything in it, Scion: Companion for 1e is... not... good for its research. I think the Túatha Dé Danann section has a total of four sentences that are totally true statements about the Irish sagas. The Shén was done... not well, and the Devá are depicted just overwhelmingly poorly. So, in general I would suggest just ignoring all of that. It honestly won't help and will just provide confusion.

    Now, an alternative is the version of the Bogovi written by John's Scion Resources for 1e, a popular fansite who did really solid research for all of their Pantheons. I suggest reading their work as they actually source their material in their bibliography at the end. You can find it here. If you would like some examples of how to write 2e Pantheons up for Homebrew, there should be two example Pantheons in my signature.


    Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
    The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire.
    The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples.
    The Sgā’na Qeda’s: the Pantheon of the Haida First Nation.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Watcher View Post
      I wish you the best of luck dealing with the Slavic sources! They are... notoriously challenging with less resources than the infamous Nemetondevos, and riddled with modern era nationalistic fictions sadly.
      I were doing my researches into Slavic pre-Christian believes my whole life. ( Over 31 years now. ) I may not have PhD in Anthropology, but I think I have good sense of it to write fan update of faction for the RPG game. Still, any real world source pointed will be dear for me.

      Originally posted by Watcher View Post
      Now, an alternative is the version of the Bogovi written by John's Scion Resources for 1e, a popular fansite who did really solid research for all of their Pantheons. I suggest reading their work as they actually source their material in their bibliography at the end. You can find it here. If you would like some examples of how to write 2e Pantheons up for Homebrew, there should be two example Pantheons in my signature.
      Okay, not dwelling into Scion 1E Companion, starts from John's material and real world sources. Roger!


      My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
      LGBT+ in CoD games

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      • #4
        Bogi – 2E Slavic Pantheon ( Bogovi )

        My first take on Slavic Pantheon general Purviews, written from my memory and based on John’s take on Bogovi. It’s probably will change later on in project. First Purview and in italic is main one for particular god. Those with ‘?’ are Purviews I consider, but are not sure or are not official in Scion 2E Hero.

        Chors – AKA: Hors, Khors – Lunar God/Goddess, ‘useful’ Titan (?) – Purviews: Moon, Artistry, Beauty, Beasts (Monsters), Darkness / Chors is most enigmatic of the Pantheon – there are very small sources on it, pointing he can be she even. /
        Dazhbog – AKA: Dabog, Dajbog, Dazbog – Sun God – Purviews: Sun, Beauty, Sky
        Jarilo – AKA: Jarovit, Yarilo – God of Fertility – Purviews: Fertility, Chaos, Epic Stamina, War
        Mokosh – AKA: Mokosha – Purviews: Earth, Fertility, Mother(?)
        Morena – AKA: Mara, Marzanna, Mora – Winter Goddess, Titan – Purviews: Death, Frost, Fertility
        Perun – AKA: Gromovit, Perkele, Perkuns – Purviews: Sky, Fire, Epic Strength, War
        Radegast – AKA: Radhost, Radigost – Purviews: Darkness, Order, Stars
        Stribog – AKA: Stribozh, Strzybog – Purviews: Frost, Sky
        Svyatovit – AKA: Svetovid, Svantovit, Vid – Purviews: Perception(?), Omens, Beasts (Horses), Sun, War
        Svarozhich – AKA: Svarogich, Svarozic – Purviews: Sun, Fire, Epic Stamina, Order, War
        Veles – AKA: Volos, Weles – Purviews: Death, Beasts ( Cattle ), Deception, Fertility, Magic (?), Prosperity
        Zhiva – AKA: Sieba, Siva – Purviews: Sun, Passion, Death, Fertility
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-04-2019, 03:53 AM.


        My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
        LGBT+ in CoD games

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        • #5
          Thinking about Titanomachy, I think Bogi's attitude would be like Aesir thing with Loki and Giants - so 'What, AGAIN we need to fix problems made by Chors/Morena?!' - Outside this, Bogi do not intervene in Titanomachy, until some foreign Pantheons Titan start to make problems with their worshipers and/or Bogi's territory.

          With Chors being 'mad god' of Pantheon he is probably 'tolerated' ( until doing really weird stuff ) - and Morena is the goddess that is known to 'steal' people and even gods to her Otherworld/Underworld kingdom ( see Jarilo ). Morena is probably most antagonistic, as Scions of rest of Bogi need to fight her directly on winter's time when she steals people, often. On the other hand, Chors is probably more 'Chors, you are drunk, you need to think straight!' - and that he has a legion of titanspawns he do not really control after his intermingling with beasts ( see, Slavic werewolves myths ).
          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-04-2019, 03:53 AM.


          My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            I were doing my researches into Slavic pre-Christian believes my whole life. ( Over 31 years now. ) I may not have PhD in Anthropology, but I think I have good sense of it to write fan update of faction for the RPG game. Still, any real world source pointed will be dear for me.
            Unfortunately for real world sources I believe the only Primary Documents are two manuscripts. One, Chronica Slavorum, by Helmold of Bosau who was obviously very biased in his writings, and the Russian Primary Chronicle which gives zero details asides from names. As far as myself or anyone else has been able to uncover these are the only primary documents to deal with pre-Christian Slavic deities, with the majority of information that is on the internet being based on modern-era nationalistic fiction developed in an attempt to eradicate regional cultures and create a false hegemony of culture in eastern Europe which coincided with the development of ideas of an ethnic state and other dark fictions such as that.

            I am sure people would love to read sources along with you for this project however! Drop some titles, I have a friend who has spent quite some time working on a similar project and has found naught but ash in terms of legitimate sources to use.


            Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
            The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire.
            The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples.
            The Sgā’na Qeda’s: the Pantheon of the Haida First Nation.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Watcher View Post
              I am sure people would love to read sources along with you for this project however! Drop some titles, I have a friend who has spent quite some time working on a similar project and has found naught but ash in terms of legitimate sources to use.
              For now I only have Wikipedia pages and related sources cited on them. And our neopagan blog run by Polish 'temple', with writers from ours capitals university.
              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-04-2019, 11:54 AM.


              My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
              LGBT+ in CoD games

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sacerdos View Post
                What monstrous children? And where are you getting the "mad" bit from? I thought we had pretty much just the name and some speculation for Chors?
                Chors is connected to night creatures in Slavic legends - werewolves, mares ( zmory ) and rusalki (water demons ). Connection on werewolves may come from tales of 'wolves eating Moon', probably.

                Chors is mentioned in Polish sources:
                „Powieści minionych lat”
                „Słowo o wyprawie Igora”
                „Słowo i objawienie św. Apostołów”
                „Biesiada trzech świętych”


                My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                LGBT+ in CoD games

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                  Chors is connected to night creatures in Slavic legends - werewolves, mares ( zmory ) and rusalki (water demons ). Connection on werewolves may come from tales of 'wolves eating Moon', probably.

                  Chors is mentioned in Polish sources:
                  „Powieści minionych lat”
                  „Słowo o wyprawie Igora”
                  „Słowo i objawienie św. Apostołów”
                  „Biesiada trzech świętych”
                  Since I sadly don't speak Polish, you'll have to walk me through that, sorry Who is associated with those creatures? Explicitely the name Chors, or just the moon as an entity which you have chosen to associate with Chors?

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                  • #10
                    Chors is mentioned few times in relation to 'creatures of the night'. If he is creator or only 'master' is not obvious - but relation there is in few tales. On the other hand 'wolves eating Moon' is postChristanity legend, not pointing Chors from it's name. But as Chors is Moon god, it's logical it would apply here also.


                    My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                    LGBT+ in CoD games

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                    • #11
                      As far as I know, making Chors a moon deity is later conjecture. And you kinda missed my actual question there, is Chors mentioned by name in those "tales" or not?

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                      • #12
                        Also, since the sources you give seem to be the Nestorian Primary Chronicle, the Epic of Igor, and so on, why do you call them "Polish sources"?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sacerdos View Post
                          As far as I know, making Chors a moon deity is later conjecture.
                          It's the closest we have on the matter for now from sources. At least I do not know any publicly acclaimed interpretation of him pointing he weren't Moon god.

                          Originally posted by Sacerdos View Post
                          And you kinda missed my actual question there, is Chors mentioned by name in those "tales" or not?
                          Yes, it is mentioned. In „Biesiada trzech świętych” he is called „Chors Żydowina” which would translate to 'Chors Jewish', more or less. In „Słowo i objawienie św. Apostołów” he and Perun are mentioned and pointed to live on Cyprus.

                          Originally posted by Sacerdos View Post
                          Also, since the sources you give seem to be the Nestorian Primary Chronicle, the Epic of Igor, and so on, why do you call them "Polish sources"?
                          Yes, sorry, quick post and mixing Primary Chronicle, Epic of Igor with two later, more Polish sources. Yes, two earlier are Russian ( or rather Ukrainian more ) in roots.


                          My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                          LGBT+ in CoD games

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                          • #14
                            Well, as far as I know, the whole problem with Chors is that his function is never named, and that everyone goes guessing at whether they are a sun, moon, or thunder deity all the time. So I wouldn't say any of these interpretations is publicly acclaimed, because they're all just guesswork. Do you know of any print editions of these Polish sources, though? Or would you even mind giving a rough translation of the relevant passages regarding Chors, if you have the books on hand?

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