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[2E] Bogovi - Slavic Pantheon

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  • #16
    Since I brought it up, here are some additional points of Vineta:

    First, there are multiple sites that have been speculated as the possible location for Vineta - this map shows some of them:



    Of course, in the World, any of these might lead to Vineta!

    Furthermore, I've translated this German-language tale of Vineta into English. The full translation will be posted publicly on my Patreon on July 1st (see my signature), but some interesting points include:

    - In the city there lived "Greeks, Slavs, Wends, Saxons, and many other tribes besides." Each worshiped their own gods and had their own temples, except for the Saxons who were Christians at the time and who weren't allowed to worship in public. Thus, this might have been "neutral territory" between the different Pantheons - though according to one variant of the city's end, this peace between the tribes (and presumably their gods) didn't last, especially once they started calling outsiders (such as Swedes and Danes) for help in their bid for supremacy.

    - In another version the sinking of the city was a divine curse for the city's wasteful ways. One possible translation indicates that the inhabitants even used bread rolls for cleaning their children. It would also be possible to translate this in a way that implies a sexual fetish for cleaning one's children with bread rolls, which I don't want to think too deeply about - the notion of bread rolls being used as asswipes is disturbing enough.

    - The city is still sometimes spotted under the waves - with inhabitants! Since they are explicitly mentioned to walk down its streets, they presumably haven't been transformed into mermaids...

    - The city also rises above the waves on Easter Monday.


    Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles is creating Public Domain translations of German folklore!

    A German Geek - my gaming blog!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      [SIZE=18px]
      Radegast – AKA: Radhost, Radigost – Purviews: Darkness, Order, Stars
      In the story starting on p.5 of Mecklenburgische Sagen, Radigast (also called Zuarasiel) is said to be the first among the deities worshiped at Rhetra, and he is also called the "all-powerful". Furthermore, the main temple of the city had pillars on the outside that had the shapes of horns of all sorts of animals.


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      A German Geek - my gaming blog!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post
        Radigast is said to be the first among the deities worshiped at Rhetra, and he is also called the "all-powerful". Furthermore, the main temple of the city had pillars on the outside that had the shapes of horns of all sorts of animals.
        'All-powerful' is poetic title, not doing anything to Purviews - however, horns before temple maybe pointing to Beast Purview?


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        • #19
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

          'All-powerful' is poetic title, not doing anything to Purviews - however, horns before temple maybe pointing to Beast Purview?

          Wikipedia speculates he may have been a god of Hospitality.


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          A German Geek - my gaming blog!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post


            Wikipedia speculates he may have been a god of Hospitality.
            May I interject that Radegast is not an actual Slavic deity in any sense of the word? He is entirely based on a scribal error. Radegast/Redigast is first mentioned in the Chronicon of Thietmar of Merseburg, where it is named as a town where the god Svarozic is worshipped. This is then also the "Zuarasici" you misread as "Zuarasiel" in that 19th-Century collection, Jürgen. Only later, when Adam of Bremen copied Thietmar's information for his Ecclesiastical History of Hamburg did the mistake happen, because Adam accidentally uses the name Radegast for the god instead of the town. The 19th-Century collection you quote, Jürgen, then repeats that mistake, going so far as to "correct" Thietmar's older version of giving the name of Radegast to the town instead of the god. To summarise: Radegast as an individual deity does not exist, he is an accidental misapplication of the name of a cult site to the figure worshipped there, namely the better-known god Svarozic.

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            • #21
              Well, I suppose that the good people of Gadebusch will be disappointed to learn that they don't have "Radegast's crown" as one of their church windows then... (see p. 8 of the same source).

              Though folklore - and deities - often started with less. I mean, these days most people are convinced that the figure of the Lorelei is from a really old legend, as opposed to invented in 1801.


              Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles is creating Public Domain translations of German folklore!

              A German Geek - my gaming blog!

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              • #22
                Though... do you have any sources on "Radegast was a scribal error"? I'd like to get to the bottom of this - if not for Scion, then for my own folklore writings...


                Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles is creating Public Domain translations of German folklore!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post
                  Though... do you have any sources on "Radegast was a scribal error"? I'd like to get to the bottom of this - if not for Scion, then for my own folklore writings...
                  You can mostly deduce it by comparing the chronology of the word appearing across sources - among the roughly contemporaneous ones, I think it occurs only in Thietmar of Merseburg, Adam of Bremen, and Helmold. If you want to see someone with more authority than me explain it, though, look at this chapter here (I hope it's available completely for you as well, otherwise I guess you'll have to procure that book or trust me as is): https://books.google.de/books?id=ZbJ...page&q&f=false

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                  • #24
                    On a related note, I recently discovered this text at Wikisource:

                    https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The...avic_Mythology

                    How... accurate is it?


                    Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles is creating Public Domain translations of German folklore!

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                    • #25
                      Just to add in my two cents, maybe add thunder/lightning to Perun's Purviews, as his nickname gromovnik is literally thunderer, and is the word we used to translate thunderer when referring to Thor in Croatia (also Zeus in some writings, but Thor is more pop-recent).

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Aeryes View Post
                        Just to add in my two cents, maybe add thunder/lightning to Perun's Purviews, as his nickname gromovnik is literally thunderer, and is the word we used to translate thunderer when referring to Thor in Croatia (also Zeus in some writings, but Thor is more pop-recent).
                        I added Thunder Preview to Perun on list. Any other god needs re-evaluation like that?

                        Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post
                        On a related note, I recently discovered this text at Wikisource:

                        https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The...avic_Mythology

                        How... accurate is it?
                        I evaluate it in free time. But as I have very big and quick project in work - AND running my Viking Werewolf chronicle, I do not have a lot off it. ( Still, all Bogi Pantheon info is useful for me then, as players are meeting a lot of Slavs on boarders of Byzantium they go for. )
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-08-2019, 01:24 AM.


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                        • #27
                          Wait, there is a Thunder Purview? Where?


                          Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                          • #28
                            As we already gathered, guys, you could advice me on the Callings of the Gods from Bogi Pantheon...

                            Originally posted by Aeryes View Post
                            Just to add in my two cents, maybe add thunder/lightning to Perun's Purviews, as his nickname gromovnik is literally thunderer, and is the word we used to translate thunderer when referring to Thor in Croatia (also Zeus in some writings, but Thor is more pop-recent).
                            Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
                            Wait, there is a Thunder Purview? Where?
                            I felt I did not put it on purpose before. Thunder is part of Sky Preview in 2E books. Just look on those quotes:

                            Originally posted by Scion: Hero 2E, p. 259 - Sky Preview
                            Innate Power: You have perfect foreknowledge of the weather and climate around you up to at least a day in advance,
                            and may ignore any Complications imposed by rain, wind, or other hazardous weather.

                            BOLT FROM THE BLUE
                            (...)
                            You call down a bolt of lightning, rolling an attack with (highest Power Attribute) + Occult.
                            Fixing Pantheon list to previous version.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post
                              So, Jürgen Hubert, I got some time to read the 3 chapters of text. And it’s looking rather good. I just need mark that I’m not professional Anthropologist, I’m just interested in Slavic folklore, for 3 decades now. 8-)

                              From what I read, text describes things for Polish I listen, from time to time, to be in our country societies and villages. From what I know Russian folklore, descriptions are also accurate – at least until you go to the Russian funeral practices. They show them as literally ‘the Viking funeral’. It’s probably because the Rus where slavonized Vikings that ruled Slavs tribes in 9th and 10th century, so some culture mixing could be in Russia lands. On Bulgars and Jugo-Slavs I cannot verified, as I do not know their mythologies and folklore enough.
                              Slavs Animism

                              Beside worshiping their Bogi, Slavs are hard animists. They believe that everything have soul – and that those souls can leave body and take other forms than that of the host. Called Zduchacz or Zduch by Serbs – or Duch in Polish – and Sjen or Sjenovik ("Shadow") by Montenegrins ( Cień in Polish ). Those ephemeral beings wander Earth and can even control other bodies with their own, original Zduch inside – or some monstrous people can make their Zduch to leave their body. Both are called Mora ( ‘Nightmare’ in English ).

                              Systems: Slave believes are very close resembled by the Shadow World rules of Werewolf: The Forsaken or general Chronicles of Darkness. More on them can be read in WtF 2E corebook, especially in Polish setting – Field of Dogs, page 273 – or World of Darkness: Book of Spirits to 1E nWoD/CoD gameline.

                              ( Yes, I know that CoD and Storypath are not the same game system – but relation of Slavs animism to Shadow World rules in CoD is almost spot on. And there are ‘sister’ game systems. )
                              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-09-2019, 11:12 AM.


                              My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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                              • #30
                                Thanks for the feedback! Given the scarcity of information on Slavic folklore and mythology, I am glad for any reasonably accurate information I can find.

                                For my first ebook collection on German folklore (which should be out next summer), I want to focus on stories from the area of modern-day Germany - but even with this focus there should be some interesting parallels in the Mecklenburg and Saxony territories (which at times do explicitly mention old Slavic beliefs), and of course this also includes the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs]Sorbic people[/url] of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Lusatia]Upper Lusatia[/url]. After that, I plan also examine the folklore of the Sudetenland and Silesian Germans (there are quite a few 19th century collections about their stories), and a parallel view from Polish and Czech folklore sources might be very interesting.

                                And speaking of the Lusatia, I've come across a legendary figure who probably rates as a Scion - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Pumphut]Martin Pumphut[/url] (or "Pumpot" in Sorbic). He is portrayed as a miller's apprentice with a distinctive pointed hat. When he was a small child, a snake licked his eye so that he gained Second Sight, and he learned both the miller's trade and magic during his youth. After that, he traveled the lands and became a trickster figure - rewarding millers who treat their journeymen well but playing magical tricks on those who treated them badly.

                                The Krabat legend also comes from Sorbian folklore.


                                Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles is creating Public Domain translations of German folklore!

                                A German Geek - my gaming blog!

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