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  • #92

    And he says it's an alternate setting, if that allays anyone's fears.

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    • #93
      I will simply be exercising my right to not support the KS or buy the supplement - it just doesn't work for me. YMMV.

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      • #94
        Originally posted by Florin View Post


        And he says it's an alternate setting, if that allays anyone's fears.

        Yeah, I'm down for it as an alternate setting. Wouldn't use it straight, but I'll harvest it like crazy. It just makes no sense to me at all as something to insert alongside pantheons of human religion as real powers because that thematically defeats the point of the Mythos (by comparison, my American Gods homage Shard, which is more thematically existentialist and has Cosmic Horrors as Titans, the "Old Gods" only appear in the form of Incarnate Player Characters at Hero level. There are no "higher powers", because it's a very different cosmology from the World, that ala American Gods plays off the creative power of human belief rather than metaphysical truths).


        Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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        • #95
          Personally I love the idea of Mythos book for Scion. Then again my 1st ed Scion games never had more than one Panthéon in existence at a time. Why? Because for me it makes no sense to have several omnipotent gods of the same thing. If we have one sun god that matters but if we have 5 sun gods non of them matter since each could undo what any other tried to do with the sun. Naturally YMMV but for me having all religions be right and true disrespects each of those religions just as much as having none of them be true or having fictional Panthéons around. Again these are just my personal opinions but I immensly disliked the fictional Panthéons of 1st ed but Chtulhu Mythos I can work with.

          Ultimately though we will see if the Masks of Mythos or Scion: Dragons are good supplements once they get into the actual writing and we know a bit more about them than just their titles. No reason to get so angry about them especially since they are worked by different teams than those focusing on furthering Scion core books.

          We all like different things. I like to play like only the Panthéon that is real and true is the one the current game is about but I get why others like the idea of playing with mixed Panthéons. I am interested in Mythos through the lens of Scion but I get it is not for everyone. So the best thing that can happen is that they write several books about different subjects and we as consumers buy the books that interest us. No harm no foul and each of us gets some nice things from the game we all love.

          So how about we chill and wait for them to write the books first before shooting them down, the authors may surprise us pleasantly after all.

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          • #96
            Scion includes an element where each Creation Myth gets retroactively applied to the World, and so in a sense they're all true. I could see something similar applying to a Mythos-derived Pantheon, should you want to mix it with other Pantheons.

            Still, I like that it's “officially unofficial”, highlighting that you don't have to use it if you don't want to (as if you ever do, for anything in Scion).

            Several posters have said that Lovecraft's creations don't really fit the Scion mold. That's fine by me; I would be thrilled if the Old Ones turned out to be “in the same Tier as Gods, Titans, and Primordials, but without actually being Gods, Titans, or Primordials”. That is, if they don't fit the mold, have them break it.


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            • #97
              And the teaser in that video mentioned that there'll be rules for being descended from the Old Ones. Which, alright, fair, that's a spin that Scion would manage, mechanically.

              I admit I've cooled somewhat on the Mythos having its own shard. Still probably won't buy it buy there ya go.
              Last edited by Kyman201; 01-20-2019, 03:12 AM.


              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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              • #98
                Without Spivey now confirmed as full blown book developer for MotM, I am much more optimistic about it.


                Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                • #99
                  Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                  Why fear Hastur when Thor exists and can bring the might of Mjolnir?

                  Why dread the Black Goat when Kali can just devour it and its countless young?
                  Personally, I think the idea of Thor punching Cthulhu in the face is one of the most awesome things to have ever awesomed. Him teaming up with Kali, Sekmet, Mithra, Ogun, the Monster Slayer Twins, and Sun Wukong to fight the entire Mythos would be even more so. (There's probably some obscure manga out there where this happens.)

                  Regarding the neurotic racism of a lot of Lovecraft's work, I highly recommend Victor LaValle's The Ballad of Black Tom, which is set around the events of "The Horror at Red Hook" and puts them into an entirely different perspective.


                  What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                  Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                  • Call me crazy, but I'm actually optimistic about this product. Granted, I've been vocal about the fact that I'm not particularly invested in even using, much less maintaining the fidelity of, the new setting, but I can understand if not truly relate to concerns from the perspective of the HPL Mythos not meshing with the new setting... however, at-least for the Origins portion of the game, the way that that new tier actually PLAYS (rather than reads) is very much in line with "The Mythos." I've often described Origins tier as ideal for running games of "Call of Cthulhu meets Scoobie Doo, but with Gods." An alternate setting that's intentionally centered around that particular play-style actually sounds aces. Personally, if I were running a HPL Mythos game using Origin, I probably wouldn't have the "scions" so much be children of The Mythos as mortals who were touched by the greater cosmos and left with a small spark of power (and probably madness.)
                    Last edited by mjorkk; 01-24-2019, 07:05 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Sacerdos View Post

                      India: This being is incomprhensible because it is a thousand thousand things at once, it's body being made of all the other gods, thus containing the whole universe.

                      Lovecraft: This being is incomprehensible because it's head is a squid. I am afraid of sea food.


                      No, it's incomprehensible because it represents the concept of infinity, something which the human brain is not properly equipped to deal with. You might, if you try hard enough, envision a being who embodies a thousand different things at once. You will never be able to imagine something that had no beginning and has no end. No matter how large you imagine the universe (or deity, or whatever) to be in scale to our world, your brain will always place subconscious boundaries and limitations on its scale and power.

                      No matter how hard you concentrate on a singular thought, your brain will eventually become distracted by something else. Usually something more important, but perhaps not necessarily. The point is, perceiving the true scope of infinity and what that means is something we are psychologically (as well as biologically) incapable of doing.

                      That's why people are often depicted as collapsing into a catatonic state when their mind is blasted with the concept of infinity. Its because their brain is locked onto the same thought process that goes on and on and on until they finally die and the brain starts decaying.

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                      • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                        No, it's incomprehensible because it represents the concept of infinity, something which the human brain is not properly equipped to deal with. You might, if you try hard enough, envision a being who embodies a thousand different things at once. You will never be able to imagine something that had no beginning and has no end. No matter how large you imagine the universe (or deity, or whatever) to be in scale to our world, your brain will always place subconscious boundaries and limitations on its scale and power.

                        No matter how hard you concentrate on a singular thought, your brain will eventually become distracted by something else. Usually something more important, but perhaps not necessarily. The point is, perceiving the true scope of infinity and what that means is something we are psychologically (as well as biologically) incapable of doing.

                        That's why people are often depicted as collapsing into a catatonic state when their mind is blasted with the concept of infinity. Its because their brain is locked onto the same thought process that goes on and on and on until they finally die and the brain starts decaying.
                        I doubt that anyone can imagine anything that is more than one thing at the same time in the same way. We can conceptualize a something being two things at once, but not imagine. For example, can you imagine a man that is, at the same time and in the same way, a dog? Not spiritually a dog, not mentally a dog, but full on physically man and dog. Our mind is as much as locked to imagine infinity as the idea that one thing is more than one. It is a hardware limitation, which is there for the absolute natural reason that is pointless that we are able to, and we all have to deal with it. Is not about how long you try, you simply cant.

                        Actually, might not even be. People, as time passes, has been able to think in more different and abstract ways just by being exposed to different and abstract ideas since their minds formation. I am not even sure it is a hardware limitation, maybe it is just a natural limitation by being raised in a less abstract form of thinking, and future generations will easily imagine it in ways that I, literally, cant imagine. Who knows?

                        But neither concept is scary. Lovecraftians beings are not scary because they are represent the concept of infinity, they are scary because they represent an unfeeling cosmos and beings so utterly more powerful that we are mere specs of nothing, which in itself has nothing to do with infinity. They might have existed since the beggining and keep being until the end, and the Blind Stupid God might exist outside our universe, but nothing of that is not the scary part. The Lovecraftian horror is mostly based on the horror of the unknown, of the existencial unimportance and the classic amorphously grotesque.

                        And, honestly, in my opnion, the Lovecraftian mythos have lost their prime. They are not as scary, nor as interesting as they once where, specially for 21th century viewers. With a thousand media pieces creating different versions and spawning long family trees and complicated stories about those mythos, they are not and unknown as they once are. Just like the Xenomorph from Alien, as people started explaining more and more of where it came and what it does, the more it lost their scary factor. And, again, as the Xenomorph from Alien, the best way to experience it is from the original, straight from the source, trying to ignore and forget everything you know about it. It is now a piece of pop media, and nothing turns the unknown incomprehensible becoming a Meme.

                        Funny enough, I think the mythos are more interesting without the mythos, just as general separated entities that might, or might not, have relations. Separated stories that, just because the same guy wrote (which in many cases isnt even true, as the Mythos were vastly expanded by other people than Lovecraft) doesnt mean they inhabit the same universe.

                        Also media depicts people becoming catatonic due to infinity because it is fiction, it can do whatever it wants. Each fictional story in which it happens can have its own explanation, and in some cases people became Gods, other people became catatonic, other gains superpowers, other block part of the information. If you are arguing that it is what would happen if someone were exposed to infinity, than I dont know what to say to you.

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                        • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



                          No, it's incomprehensible because it represents the concept of infinity, something which the human brain is not properly equipped to deal with. You might, if you try hard enough, envision a being who embodies a thousand different things at once. You will never be able to imagine something that had no beginning and has no end. No matter how large you imagine the universe (or deity, or whatever) to be in scale to our world, your brain will always place subconscious boundaries and limitations on its scale and power.

                          No matter how hard you concentrate on a singular thought, your brain will eventually become distracted by something else. Usually something more important, but perhaps not necessarily. The point is, perceiving the true scope of infinity and what that means is something we are psychologically (as well as biologically) incapable of doing.

                          That's why people are often depicted as collapsing into a catatonic state when their mind is blasted with the concept of infinity. Its because their brain is locked onto the same thought process that goes on and on and on until they finally die and the brain starts decaying.
                          Nyrufa, I'm pretty sure Charlaquin banned you from posting on this threat, so maybe retreat instead of threatening me with the Infinite Perspective Vortex over making a joke about media I actually love. And in any case, I am also pretty sure that squid don't represent infinity to most people.

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                          • As I see... the point is not the squid head nor infinity, but the way it interact with the flow of the universe. The universe around us work on a certain way, the presence of this beings cause a “reality turbulence”, the same way that happens to seeing a Greek god in real form, it’s not the vision of the real form, but the impact it have on our concient mind.

                            Imagine a radiation that instead of causing cancer on your body, cause “cancer” on your conscience (not the Brain). There is no reason to think that there is no quantifiable conscience, otherwise how does the big squid head can affect our dreams? It’s not pheromones or anything like. You can go for psychic, mystic or any supernatural explanation for the conscience damage, but it’s not about symbols or images.

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                            • Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                              As I see... the point is not the squid head nor infinity, but the way it interact with the flow of the universe. The universe around us work on a certain way, the presence of this beings cause a “reality turbulence”, the same way that happens to seeing a Greek god in real form, it’s not the vision of the real form, but the impact it have on our concient mind.

                              Imagine a radiation that instead of causing cancer on your body, cause “cancer” on your conscience (not the Brain). There is no reason to think that there is no quantifiable conscience, otherwise how does the big squid head can affect our dreams? It’s not pheromones or anything like. You can go for psychic, mystic or any supernatural explanation for the conscience damage, but it’s not about symbols or images.
                              Yup, that's my point. Real world deities can mess with your mind just as much as the Old Ones, if not better. And reducing them all to "afraid of seafood", was, as mentioned, a joke. ^^'

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