Scion: Dragon in the works

[Jester]

also they might be going for the symbolic 'Dragon' ; a personification of a outside or third party power. e.g France was often replaced by, well, a Dragon in English and Walsh myths. or how 'Sea serpents' for Unknown threats, or Lungs for powerful forces that were not their gods but not evil. (Weather)

and yes, I know im using mostly European examples, but I know there are more examples even if I don't know them myself..

[Nyrufa]

I'm confused by the idea of "third faction" as if the factions in Scion are "gods" and "titans" when that is not at all the case, and indeed Titanomachy is not universal at all.

Considering that the idea of dragons exists across many different cultures, instead of being a universal concept, I think making them a separate faction is the most logical way to go. That way, you can have Scions from Europe, Asia, Africa, or wherever you want, and have them all technically qualify as dragons, even if they appear vastly different from each other.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the fact that they can be so wildly different also makes sense. The Gods and Titans are not universally identical in their behavior and mannerisms. You've got your warriors, your tricksters, your wise monarchs and brutish tyrants. Healers and plague bringers, saviors and destroyers. You get the idea.

And when it comes to dragons, they fit a wide range of conceptual roles as well. So finding a way to fit them into the Scion universe may not be as difficult as some people think!

[Ramnesis]

If we get a dragon book I'm hoping the first chapter is basically saying "dragons as a whole aren't a thing".

Watcher had a good outline for such a book on the discord.

That's why I'm thinking that the defining characteristic is not going to be what the entity looks like but how they relate to people and to The World. That or something substantially different about how Legend and Fatebinding work for them.

Also looking forward to one of the great overlooked cultural heroes getting a role. Perhaps "Son of the Dragon" was a literal description and not just a reference to his father's Order.

[wyrdhamster]

Also looking forward to one of the great overlooked cultural heroes getting a role. Perhaps "Son of the Dragon" was a literal description and not just a reference to his father's Order.

What Cultural Heroes you think here about?

[Ramnesis]

What Cultural Heroes you think here about?

Vlad Tepes. More often known as Dracula, which translates to Son of the Dragon*. To be fair, he's not overlooked, he's just not usually viewed as a cultural hero outside of Romania. Instead he's known more for blood drinking (most likely propaganda) and impaling people (not propaganda at all).

*Sometimes this is falsely translated as Son of the Devil, but his father belonged to Sigismund's Order of the Dragon and took the name Dracul because of it.

[glamourweaver]

Instead he's known more for blood drinking (most likely propaganda) and impaling people (not propaganda at all).l

[Dataweaver]

Considering that the idea of dragons exists across many different cultures, instead of being a universal concept, I think making them a separate faction is the most logical way to go. That way, you can have Scions from Europe, Asia, Africa, or wherever you want, and have them all technically qualify as dragons, even if they appear vastly different from each other.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the fact that they can be so wildly different also makes sense. The Gods and Titans are not universally identical in their behavior and mannerisms. You've got your warriors, your tricksters, your wise monarchs and brutish tyrants. Healers and plague bringers, saviors and destroyers. You get the idea.

And when it comes to dragons, they fit a wide range of conceptual roles as well. So finding a way to fit them into the Scion universe may not be as difficult as some people think!

I would take it one step further: exactly what is meant by a “god” varies from culture to culture, as reflected in 2e's more flexible take on them compared to how 1e tried to force all Pantheons into a vaguely Greek/Nordic mold. Now we have things like the Orisha not having physical forms in the World.

As well, some things that Scion labels as “gods” were nothing of the sort in the original beliefs: the Tuatha de Danaan, for all their power, weren't considered beings to worship or venerate by the people of Ireland; they were considered beings to avoid and placate. Not because they were evil, but because they'd screw you over on a whim.

With that in mind, the idea of “dragons” being a worldwide phenomenon that varies in specifics from culture to culture doesn't seem so out of place.

[mjorkk]

I’m interested, but confused as to how that can play out in a way that’s true to myth and not modern urban fantasy as it’s primary source material.

That's not necessarily a problem. Scion was primarily urban fantasy, with a RL mythology flavor, for a decade, and it won awards. Heck, when the project was backed, the general understanding of scion according to many was still "urban fantasy with a RL mythology flavor." As such, delivering on that Urban Fantasy is not a bad thing, especially in a kitchen sink "cherry pick the parts that work for your story, and blame Narrativium and Fate if you get called on it as a GM" type of game like Scion.

[Dataweaver]

I would say that Scion is an urban fantasy game that emphasizes a high (but not complete) fidelity to real-life mythology. And while I wouldn't want to stray too far from that (e.g., I have no interest in porting Exalted's Pantheon into Scion), I also have no interest in clinging to it so tightly that it strangles the game.

[Nyrufa]

I would take it one step further: exactly what is meant by a “god” varies from culture to culture, as reflected in 2e's more flexible take on them compared to how 1e tried to force all Pantheons into a vaguely Greek/Nordic mold. Now we have things like the Orisha not having physical forms in the World.

As well, some things that Scion labels as “gods” were nothing of the sort in the original beliefs: the Tuatha de Danaan, for all their power, weren't considered beings to worship or venerate by the people of Ireland; they were considered beings to avoid and placate. Not because they were evil, but because they'd screw you over on a whim.

With that in mind, the idea of “dragons” being a worldwide phenomenon that varies in specifics from culture to culture doesn't seem so out of place.

True, I believe the Theoi are supposed to be as close to true immortality as you can get. The only thing I know of that can kill one of them is the blood of the Ceryneian Hind.

And even then, I think that might have been something cooked up by the live action Hercules series, rather than part of the official mythos.

So if you want to stay accurate to the mythology they stem from, any Scion of the Theoi would be nigh invincible on the battlefield. The only thing the villains could do to stop them would be trapping them in some kind of prison.

[Errol216]

True, I believe the Theoi are supposed to be as close to true immortality as you can get.

Not to get derailed too much, but considering that you can head into the Overworld/Underworld in Scion, it's not insurmountably hard to bring anyone back to life any more than it was for Orpheus. There are tests and ordeals and stuff you'd have to get past, and restoring life would still be a big deal, but it's a Hero-level feat at most.

No one's really dead if you care enough.

The only thing I know of that can kill one of them is the blood of the Ceryneian Hind.

AFAICT, that's specific to the TV series.

[Nyrufa]

Not to get derailed too much, but considering that you can head into the Overworld/Underworld in Scion, it's not insurmountably hard to bring anyone back to life any more than it was for Orpheus. There are tests and ordeals and stuff you'd have to get past, and restoring life would still be a big deal, but it's a Hero-level feat at most.

No one's really dead if you care enough.

Sure, I understand that to a certain extent. But to the best of my knowledge, nobody in the Greek mythology actually managed to succeed in bringing somebody back from the realm of the dead, once they physically expired. And going by 1st edition's rules, everybody who ever attempted it would have been demigod status, if not greater.

But it was still an important facet of the mythos that "immortality" for them meant something between having an absurdly potent healing factor, to just being outright invulnerable to all harm. Speaking of imprisoning people, I believe that's actually how they chose to deal with the majority of their "immortal" foes.

Hercules didn't explicitly kill the Hydra (who's main head was immortal), he just buried it under a massive boulder. And Zeus did something similar, when he trapped Typhon under a volcano.

When a nymph's immortalized human lover became too old to move anymore (she asked Zeus to make him immortal, but neglected to ask for eternal youth), Zeus took pity on her and turned the man into a chair, rather than simply allowing him to die.


Anyways, back on track, the idea of ascending to draconic status is an amazing concept that can only lead to some of the most METAL adventures in 2nd edition.

[Eldagusto]

Alongside Mythos, the MidWinter Onyx Podcast also revealed a book they're currently calling Scion: Dragon, a Hero-level book about another faction in the Titanwar, who stepped back into the shadows when the gods and Titans went to war - draconic/reptilian mythological figures. You play their Scions, along the lines of sleeper agents in the Cold War of the Titanwar. Danielle Lauzon developing.

This is a hella cool idea. I like the cross pantheon idea like Dragons/Serpents as a cross pantheon society and the Fae across pantheon, and Giants ect.

[Eldagusto]

True, I believe the Theoi are supposed to be as close to true immortality as you can get. The only thing I know of that can kill one of them is the blood of the Ceryneian Hind.

And even then, I think that might have been something cooked up by the live action Hercules series, rather than part of the official mythos.

So if you want to stay accurate to the mythology they stem from, any Scion of the Theoi would be nigh invincible on the battlefield. The only thing the villains could do to stop them would be trapping them in some kind of prison.

If gods really wanted to they could kill other Immortals. Cronus should be in Tartarus right now for instance. He got messed the eff up when his kids beat him.

[Eldagusto]

also they might be going for the symbolic 'Dragon' ; a personification of a outside or third party power. e.g France was often replaced by, well, a Dragon in English and Walsh myths. or how 'Sea serpents' for Unknown threats, or Lungs for powerful forces that were not their gods but not evil. (Weather)

and yes, I know im using mostly European examples, but I know there are more examples even if I don't know them myself..

Well most of the Long 龙 were understood to be heavenly creatures that at least were accountable to heaven with their Kings being Essentially Gods.