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  • #61
    There are 2 kinds of antagonists:
    The first kind are the trivial guys, they don’t have Injury levels, it means that any injury takes them out. They are the regular people, the ones that give up if get any kind of hurt at all.
    The second group DO have Injury levels, according to the Archetype used (page 145). The number in Health is the number of Injuries they can suffer before taken out, monsters for example have 6.
    The complications caused by the injuries must be determined by the SG, so they don’t have Bruised, Injured and Maimed complications, they just have a number of health that must be beaten (possibly causing complications) before they are taken out.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
      There are 2 kinds of antagonists:
      The first kind are the trivial guys, they don’t have Injury levels, it means that any injury takes them out. They are the regular people, the ones that give up if get any kind of hurt at all.
      The second group DO have Injury levels, according to the Archetype used (page 145). The number in Health is the number of Injuries they can suffer before taken out, monsters for example have 6.
      The complications caused by the injuries must be determined by the SG, so they don’t have Bruised, Injured and Maimed complications, they just have a number of health that must be beaten (possibly causing complications) before they are taken out.

      That has to be the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. So basically any antagonist with more then 1 health level doesn't have wound penalties? A troll can't be concussed, hamstrung, or any of the other "descriptive complications" that PCs take every time a troll hits them? How the hell does that make any sort of dramatic sense!

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      • #63
        Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post


        That has to be the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. So basically any antagonist with more then 1 health level doesn't have wound penalties? A troll can't be concussed, hamstrung, or any of the other "descriptive complications" that PCs take every time a troll hits them? How the hell does that make any sort of dramatic sense!
        This is not the case. Antagonists can receive the 'broken bone', black eye etc style conditions that give a specific penalty. What they -don't- have is the "Momentum" line from the wound level descriptions in Origins, where they get a generic +1 difficulty/+2 difficulty etc for in exchange for momentum. (Because NPCs don't have momentum.)

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        • #64
          Originally posted by unseenlibrarian View Post

          This is not the case. Antagonists can receive the 'broken bone', black eye etc style conditions that give a specific penalty. What they -don't- have is the "Momentum" line from the wound level descriptions in Origins, where they get a generic +1 difficulty/+2 difficulty etc for in exchange for momentum. (Because NPCs don't have momentum.)
          That’s the exact point

          The antagonists can have complications related to the injuries, but not all the health levels are the same, some have hard armor, some don’t feel pain, some are regular people, so they didn’t put rules on how the complications are described.
          A troll would have a hard armor from its thick skin and the rest would cause penalties according to the kind of injuries caused, while a robot is basically a tough armor with some fragile points.

          What they don’t have is the NEED of following the same set of rules for penalties that characters do, as they don’t have momentum.

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          • #65
            Wait... taking damage gives you momentum? Where the hell... ok, I give up, this system is frelled. Whatever person designed this book and thought this was easy to understand was dropped on their head as a small child.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
              Wait... taking damage gives you momentum? Where the hell... ok, I give up, this system is frelled. Whatever person designed this book and thought this was easy to understand was dropped on their head as a small child.
              Not acceptable. You clearly have problems with how the game plays, but as you can see from all the responses from folks telling you how it works, other people can both understand and play the game. And I actually appreciate the points you make in terms of helping anyone else with questions as to how the systems work. But you do not have any reason to come here and strew insults about.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
                Wait... taking damage gives you momentum?
                No. Taking damage give you Conditions. Conditions give you momentum when/if their negative consequences get in your way (which Injury Conditions are very prone to doing if they don't get magically healed ASAP). This is stated in the general rules section under Conditions, and the Injury Conditions all give their Momentum granting situation for you in the Resolving Damage section. The word "Momentum" is literally sitting there in bold for each Injury Condition level.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                  No. Taking damage give you Conditions. Conditions give you momentum when/if their negative consequences get in your way (which Injury Conditions are very prone to doing if they don't get magically healed ASAP). This is stated in the general rules section under Conditions, and the Injury Conditions all give their Momentum granting situation for you in the Resolving Damage section. The word "Momentum" is literally sitting there in bold for each Injury Condition level.
                  Except plain text reading says they don’t actually take those. It’s in the book. That’s an implied mechanic, not an explicit one.

                  There are now 2 completely separate compare systems in the same game, with a conflicting mechanic track. This is not simple, streamlined,!nor in any way adequately explained in the product I purchased. So I think my unbridgeable will remain justified.

                  I will apologize for the personal attack. It was not appropriate on a forum possessed by the content creators.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
                    Except plain text reading says they don’t actually take those.
                    OK... I'm really not sure why this isn't sinking in for you.

                    You don't take the generic versions, you take personalized/specific instances of them.

                    This seems to be something you're struggling with across the board. You don't take a Role Path of "Detective." You use the Detective as a template to build your Role Path of, "FinCen Agent That Ensures Everyone Pays their Due."

                    Likewise with damage, you don't take the Bruised Injury Condition, you use the Bruised template when you take damage in a Bruised Health Level, to take the Bloody Nose Condition; including the Momentum generation Conditions give you.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                      OK... I'm really not sure why this isn't sinking in for you.

                      You don't take the generic versions, you take personalized/specific instances of them.

                      This seems to be something you're struggling with across the board. You don't take a Role Path of "Detective." You use the Detective as a template to build your Role Path of, "FinCen Agent That Ensures Everyone Pays their Due."

                      Likewise with damage, you don't take the Bruised Injury Condition, you use the Bruised template when you take damage in a Bruised Health Level, to take the Bloody Nose Condition; including the Momentum generation Conditions give you.
                      Oh I learned that. And thanks for the condescension.

                      The book for antagonists LITERALLY says they do not take those conditions.

                      And I quote “This is the number of Health Boxes the Archetype comes with by default. Antagonists do not have Injury Conditions, but are Taken Out when their last Health Box is filled.”

                      Therefor plain text reading of the book Rich put out and I bought says that everything you said about them taking any injury condition is bunk. Because the TEXT says so. You can imply whatever you want from the whole of the book but those are house rules to fix this drivel.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
                        Wait... taking damage gives you momentum? Where the hell... ok, I give up, this system is frelled. Whatever person designed this book and thought this was easy to understand was dropped on their head as a small child.
                        Insulting the developers is not acceptable criticism on these forums. It's clear you don't like the game and barely read the book, so how about you get out of the thread.


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                        • #72
                          I had already apologized to the project creator but thanks for the additional chastising.

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                          • #73
                            Sorry Johan, it’s quite difficult to help you here.
                            The entire point of the game play is even when you fail you still get some help and even when you are successful you still leave some lose ends for the adversaries.
                            You gain Momentum in 2 ways, when you fail on tests and when you face complications, failing or not the test. It includes when the injuries disturb you.

                            Basically, if you are in a bad situation, your group have some extra effort to help you, and you fight for your survival. Think about it as a Karma if you do t want this extra effort I game. That’s basically the only reason to get a condition that is not the weakest and the one that affects you the least (ok, I should not touch in this point right now, but... too late...)

                            Regular creatures get no momentum, but heroic creatures have a SG momentum to explore, it’s described in the Hero book, if I am not wrong (I am reading Hero now, but I keep consulting Origins and both TC books), and the same way, your successes gives them this extra effort that helps them to... defeat you.

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                            • #74
                              TC books? Sorry I don’t do well with acronyms.

                              And at this point you are no longer addressing my issue and actually emphasizing the problem. There is ABSOLUTELY no coherent order to this book or the systematics. A system that is introduced as specific to a specific subset character is suddenly integral to all characters in another book, 4 references in Origin explicitly reference Hero expecting you to possess the book making it obvious that it’s not meant to be a stand alone or just intending to force the purchaser (yes I’m aware everybody who kickstarted got both) to buy the additional book and Hero is just as bad explicitly saying Relics will have entirely new systematics when Demigod comes out.

                              The combat system is ill written and does explicitly contradict itself AS WRITTEN, and now the antagonists run on an entirely different and contradictory track that AS WRITTEN contradicts even the intuitive material of all the previous chapters.

                              And before someone else accuses me of “just not liking the system,” I payed my money, bought 1st ed (twice actually since some jackass lost parts of my first set), and waited 2 years for my books, then over a week to get admitted to this forum explicitly to get the help I needed so I could properly understand the game I wanted to ENJOY!

                              But every single time I ask a question I’m treated like the village idiot, told to screw off, and when I do get an answer it basically equates to “the rules are made up and the book doesn’t matter.” Because absolutely none of the answers I’ve been given (with the exception of an answer on another thread) has been a simple “this page, X” it’s all been an effort in interpretive literature.
                              Last edited by JohanDracys; 05-15-2019, 02:50 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
                                I had already apologized to the project creator but thanks for the additional chastising.
                                In the future if you have complaints about the moderation you should use the Contact Us option at the bottom of the thread.

                                Enjoy your week off. Consider using that time to read the forum rules.


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                                *All other colors should be read aloud in the voice of Don Knotts.
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