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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Question 1: One attack = One Injury (unless you have a higher scale or critical)

    Question 2: No, the condition is defined by the target (yes, it’s kind of... ...weird) as long you have free spaces of the kind. The kind of damage just define the impact on armor and the description of the damage, not in the condition.

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  • JohanDracys
    replied
    Rules Clarification on Combat:

    When Applying damage: 1) Unless Critical Stunt is applied only 1 dmg lvl or condition is applied

    and 2) That condition is determined by the damage type correct?

    i.e. If an Inflict Injury Stunt is applied using a fist: A Bruised, Injured, or Maimed health level can be taken up
    But if a sword is used only Injured and Maimed health levels are taken?

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Now about all the confusion. Again, a little help from the guys with the main info highlighted would be nice.

    If you (like me) was reading Trinity first, and than went to Scion, it’s even worse. Trinity follow your idea of content distribution (at least mine).
    Second Chapter (first rule chapter) is Character Creation (the 1st chapter is flavour), describe all the skills, attributes and paths, than describe the Edges (kind of knacks, but more versatile).
    Third chapter is the Storypath System, basically the same as Scion, but, as the skills and attributes are already done, it’s more “straight forward” to applying them. Forth is focused on combat, health and dangers and fifth on

    As I read Trinity first, my understanding of the system is different of Scion, character creation and skills at different, the results are about the same, but still different (Scion have more skill dots, knacks are more powerful than edges, things like that), so my reading of Scion is more about flavour and finding differences than understanding.

    Than I go again about the differences... there are lots of “unnecessary” differences, like scale (humans are scale 1 in TC, and 0 on Scion), the workings of Paths (Trinity Paths have dots, Scion they don’t)... it annoys me more than it should, it’s like playing VtM and WtA (after reading CoD) they are the same but... no... they are compatible but... no...

    Honestly, I love Scion, I finish reading Origin cover to cover, but it is really confusing on many things... not something you use for RPG starters. Like it was mentioned, it’s much better for a person that knows how to play CoD and at least one of Fate, Hero System or Savage Worlds.

    Trinity, in the other hand, is a great book, I didn’t read cover to cover, but my understanding of the system is based on it, and I am much happier with it. It’s more flexible on character creation, the text is similar but a bit better, the chapters are much more objective... I think it’s more friendly to beginners...

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Question 1: yes, in theory up to 3, but could be more if you have enough tags to use.
    Question 2: multiple tags, some tags counts as multiple tags as well, so... in the end saying it’s a tag that worth 3 tags or it’s 3 tags means the same.

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  • JohanDracys
    replied
    So 1) thank you to everybody helping me so far. About to ask more questions so hopefully you'll continue to help me slog through this.

    But 2) To everybody saying that this book isn't more confusing than Rifts and going on to espouse about the open endedness that throws people for a loop. That's not what I was referring to. I'm referring to the fact that this book reads like Exalted and Mage had a baby and then let Rifts teach it how to read and write.

    The game's freeform qualities are very intriguing (once I understood them), but actually understanding that that was the intention of the rules was the problem. Even Attributes are relabeled to give a different take on how to address them and then very little actual information on what the new system means when addressing how Arena vs Approach + Skill actually means. The games rules are spread out in a very bizarre way (skills are actually in the systems section, not the actual traits section, and the priority system for paths is muddled). I don't need a "A+B=C" map of every skill, knack or boon. I just need to be able to coherently navigate the book. Like the fact that the tier system of beings actually isn't explained on its own, it's part of the Crafts systems, and is still confusing since many rules about tiers refer to "more then 2 tiers" above being immune, but since there are only 4 tiers that would mean that only Gods are immune to mortals, or that the reference is meant to mean "2 or more" which is also insinuated.

    Anyhow, to my latest questions which are to the crunch of the game:

    Soft Armor (1) increases the difficulty of the Inflict damage stunt by 1
    Piercing lowers Soft Armor by 2

    Question 1) Does this imply that there can be multiple levels of soft armor? and if so Question 2) Would multiple levels count as new armor tags or the same one?


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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Thrythlind View Post

    That's not even close to true.

    I think the only thing tripping people up is the amount of stuff pulled in from systems like Fate or Hero System where you define a name or description of a feature yourself rather than have it defined by the game.
    True, and work really nice for any player with some experience on more flexible rules games. For a beginner, it’s not that easy, first you need to get a good understand of the way the skills are divided, what toke me some time, and find a good combination to make you more proficient or less.

    The skills are smartly divided in an “unusual” way.
    First you have not a single handwork (craft, arts, etc) or art (performing, acting, etc) skill, you must build your concept from an engineer, an artist, a blacksmith or a technician from what they know and not what they do.
    There is no perception skill, you use your capacity of survival to identify perils in the nature, your knowledge of technology to find pieces of equipment in the floor, and your ability in interacting with people to detect micro expressions in their faces.
    The only straight forward skills are the ones related to combat, and even them are a bit more versatile than usual.

    Than we get back to the creation of paths, even the examples are not finished, you get an example that is not finished, many questions were about “why some paths have 3 and other have 4 skills”, and the answer is “because you didn't ready a few pages ago that they all have 3, and you can pick 3 or the 4 in the list, in fact you can pick ANY 3 not even bothering about the ones listed”, but as we read RPG books on a “non linear” way, it gets really confuse. RPG books usually have at some point a summary of the rules, just because we are used to it to the point we don’t even read the entire book. Also, it’s self referencing to pages you didn’t go thru yet, what means you WILL jump forward to understand something and will not finish the previous chapter you were reading. Not a problem with RPG books, but you need a summary for character creation, and at least a few side bars with the main information of the chapter.
    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 05-05-2019, 08:31 AM.

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  • Aethers
    replied
    I don't think the issue is the content of the book, rather more in how it is laid out. Hayashi's document takes all the info you need to create a character and puts it on one or two pages. Sure you need to check the book to find out more about the paths, but its far, far quicker than having to flip through multiple pages to find the relevant section, to then search that block of text for the one or two bits of information you need.

    Take a look at the CofD books. They have sprawling in-depth explanations of what everything is and how to make characters, but they always have a 1-2 page overview of the whole process. Not to mention some of the character sheets have all the info you need at the bottom of them too.

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  • Thrythlind
    replied
    Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
    Thanks. So far this book has made Rifts look well written and coherently organized. I mean I love the setting, and everything I'm pulling out of the changes is awesome it's like a walking migraine trying to get logic out of this book.
    That's not even close to true.

    I think the only thing tripping people up is the amount of stuff pulled in from systems like Fate or Hero System where you define a name or description of a feature yourself rather than have it defined by the game.

    Advocate for the Hopeful Performer
    Wildlife Mediator
    Born to Blood of Harpies
    Thrived on the Streets
    A Wolf in Secretary's Guise
    Brutal Vigilante
    Cursed with Warped Ka
    The Trickster Fox, Entertainer and Hero
    Marine Born and Raised
    Hidden Gem and Potential
    Something Special Breathes in You
    Scout's Luck: Good, Bad, and Strange
    A Child of Thunder and Gold
    Daredevil Media Darling

    Those are all Paths I've made for characters both theoretical or for actual play.

    A Modern Red
    The Forgotten Victim
    Amaterasu's Eclipse
    The Trickster Fox
    The Clean Harpy
    The Beautiful Death
    The Inevitable Conflict
    The Squirrel Thief
    The Lady of Dreams
    The Tea Mistress
    Inheritor of Legends
    The Skillful Secretary
    The Slow Temper
    The Lion's Thief
    The Stormy Conclusion

    Those are all titles I've chosen for theoreticals.

    It's a common way of doing things in a lot of the systems Storypath borrows from.

    For paths, you think of a story-arc or character concept that defines your character and you give it a name...let's look at Wildlife Mediator which represents the fact that she can speak to animals and works to mediate between humans and the wild so everybody comes out well. What would this entail for skills? I decided Empathy, Integrity, and Survival made the most sense.

    What about for the Daredevil Media Darling path on another character? I decided Athletics, Empathy, and Persuasion

    The bits in the book are guidelines.

    What you need is

    Path name
    Three skills related to said path
    The sorts of people that you have connections to based on what that path says about you.

    If you want to spread out your skill points to be good at a lot of things, you try to avoid overlap. If you want to be heavily specialized, you do quite a bit of overlap.
    Last edited by Thrythlind; 05-05-2019, 03:05 AM.

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  • Purple Snit
    replied
    Posted in wrong thread.

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  • Aethers
    replied
    The missing creation summary is one of the reasons I'm attempting to program a character generator in Python. The other reason is to try learning Python... Even then it's still really confusing to get all the logic in, and made harder by the fact you can choose a skill twice via different paths.

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Hayashi View Post


    I did a thing. It aboards just the Origin level, but still something. Hope it helps: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Vq...jeMTy180FE9D7Q
    That is good, lot easier to get the entire creation!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    I think the problem is not bad writing or lack of logic, we can get all the info from the text, but there is the difficulty of finding it when needed, as it is not highlighted or anything like that.
    We need a Character Creation Sum Up with all the info for character creation, as usual for the CoD and WoD.
    We could use a few more exemples of difficulties for the skills and a few more stunt examples for regular actions, as we have for combat.

    I like the idea of open end paths, but it’s horrible for starters and those that are not sure about what their character are. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fun to create your path and have a great flexibility in the rules, but it’s a bit annoying the lack of restrictions. The golden rules of all RPG (if the rule is disturbing, change it) is the main rule here straight from the book, to the point you don’t have any restrictive rule. Trinity Continuum is a bit more straight to the point, the paths are all fixed, you can build your own, change the ones in the book, but they are there with all you need to create a character if you don’t want to think too much about the rules...
    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 05-04-2019, 10:05 AM.

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  • Hayashi
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    What I found lacking in Origin and Hero books - from the CoD perspective - it's the one page sum up of character creations. In Chronicles of Darkness, it really made easier preparing new characters - even for me, mostly Storyteller of games.

    Proposition - Maybe we should do fan 'One Page Character Creation' for Scion 2E tiers? Like a Google Doc or something.

    I'm still not sure if we can before official premiere of game.

    I did a thing. It aboards just the Origin level, but still something. Hope it helps: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Vq...jeMTy180FE9D7Q

    Leave a comment:


  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    What I found lacking in Origin and Hero books - from the CoD perspective - it's the one page sum up of character creations. In Chronicles of Darkness, it really made easier preparing new characters - even for me, mostly Storyteller of games.

    Proposition - Maybe we should do fan 'One Page Character Creation' for Scion 2E tiers? Like a Google Doc or something.

    I'm still not sure if we can before official premiere of game.

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by JohanDracys View Post
    Thanks. So far this book has made Rifts look well written and coherently organized. I mean I love the setting, and everything I'm pulling out of the changes is awesome it's like a walking migraine trying to get logic out of this book.
    I don’t think that’s actually true. I think it’s the dichotomy of it being similar enough to Storyteller that it’s throwing people how different it is.

    Leave a comment:

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