Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Mythos (aka, Yog Sothothery), Homebrew Scion 2nd

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Lovecraft gods are not to be associated to other pantheons, as I see. The cultists can use the name and say it’s the same god, but the true is a bit to alien to relate. The names and the cultists can believe whatever they want, but the origins, powers and cosmology is completely different.

    Lovecraftian Dagon is kind of the god-like leader of the deepones, a giant version of them, something like a Murlock from WoW, but the size of a building.

    The Caanite Dagon is one of the gods that would form the image of the Roman Saturn. Notice that the Roman religion is not the Greek one, they had the gods that came from the Etruscans, Latins and other peoples that lived in Italy, who are in part descendente of Phoenicians and Caanites. Later the Greek philosophers combined their gods to the Roman gods, creating an one to one relation that didn’t existed before. Saturn is a main example, an god of agriculture and fertility (mainly plant fertility, but also any kind of food), was worshiped in the mid winter (Saturnalia, the Roman equivalent to Chirstmas) while their counterpart Cronos was not worshiped at all, and in fact was less related to agriculture and more to the natural chaos and savagery of the wilds, bit as both were the fathers of their main gods (Jupiter and Zeus) they became the same guy.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bioagent View Post
      Yeah, the line between Titan and God will be critical for this Pantheon. I divided it up between Outer God and Great Old One for ease. Nyarlathotep gets to break the rules because, well, it is Nyarlathotep
      I admit this is a big reason why I would not put the Elder Gods into the mainline 'canon' of Scion, since (Confession: I'm only moderately aware of the Mythos and couldn't tell you the difference between Nyarlathotep and Glaaki) I was under the impression that a big part of the Mythos's horror is that even the Old Ones 'closer' to humanity still don't care about humanity. It's the source of horror in the Cosmic Horror: That we're irrelevant, small, and ultimately insignificant on the cosmic scale.

      That very horror and theme kind of falls apart the second you introduce other Gods. Because you know who DOES care? Thor does. Dude's a raging storm of fury who smites Giants first and asks questions NEVER but he still defends humanity.

      Kali and Durga definitely care for their worshippers, and will throw down with anybody who tries to kill innocent mortals.

      Ancient Monsters from Beyond the Stars that at worst seek our destruction? The Teotl face off against shit like that every night.

      So yeah, that's why I agree with what Masks of the Mythos is doing. If you're gonna put the Mythos into Scion, they need to be the only Divine entities in the setting. They emphatically don't work, lose all threat, and all impact, and all thematic weight if when in the depths of despair inflicted by realizing how much bigger things there are out there than you, there's a voice that whispers "Fear not. For I walk with you" before Cthulhu gets filled with arrows from Durga's bow, or hit in the face by one of the Tuatha's instant death spears.


      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

      Comment


      • #18
        Yeah, about the only way I'd do an integrated Mythos is if you're going full Ruthanna Emrys and basically going "Lovecraft was a racist old fuck, why should we believe anything he had to say about the gods worshiped by sapient non-humans he was blatantly prejudiced against." At which point you're mostly using the mythos as an allegory for how Victorian anthropologists and Joseph Campbell have a lot to answer for.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by unseenlibrarian View Post
          Yeah, about the only way I'd do an integrated Mythos is if you're going full Ruthanna Emrys and basically going "Lovecraft was a racist old fuck, why should we believe anything he had to say about the gods worshiped by sapient non-humans he was blatantly prejudiced against." At which point you're mostly using the mythos as an allegory for how Victorian anthropologists and Joseph Campbell have a lot to answer for.
          At my Cheekiest, I'd have Innsmouth be an actual town in the World.

          And it's a perfectly normal not-at-all sinister and actually quite pleasant town. It has a colony of fish folks living off the coast, yes... But they're also really nice and polite. They actually quite resent Lovecraft's smear campaign. They do NOT eat people, for one, and they'd balk at human sacrifice.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

          Comment


          • #20
            Not sure because I am not too familiar with that Dagon. Likely? Whatever suits your story?

            Comment


            • #21
              Don't worry too much about Dagon, folks.

              Lovecraft gave it that name because when he wrote the short story "Dagon" in 1917, he still had not reached the point in his creative process where he thought giving an original name to its monsters was the way to go. He needed a name for a powerful oceanic creature, looked around and found mention of the real world mythology Dagon and how he was sometimes described having certain piscine traits. So he ignored what was not useful about the actual Dagon and gave the name to the monster. Part because he did not care, part because there was no need whatsoever for mythological accuracy for the story and part because Lovecraft was Lovecraft.

              When he later wrote "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" in 1931, way later in his life, Lovecraft had developed the taste for original eldritch gods that gave us Cthulhu & friends, but indulged in a little of self-referential fun by upgrading Dagon into the god of the Deep Ones and a driving force behind what's happening in Innsmouth. Plus mentions of Cthulhu, because he knew his newer creation to be scarier of lil' Dagon, and Shoggoths, who are in Innsmouth for no other reason Lovecraft had recently written "At the Mountains of Madness" and felt they deserved another chance to shine (no, really: when it comes to only the H.P. works, Shoggoths are there because why not)

              Really, the reason Lovecraft's Dagon is not called Blibdoolpoolp or something like that is only because Lovecraft still had to find the drive to make his own inconsistent (not an insult: he meant for it to be like that) mythology, a choice that happened for several reasons I'm not gonna bore you with.

              The connection between the two Dagon might as well not be there. But I agree the Ruthanna Emrys books are cool.
              Last edited by Cinder; 05-15-2019, 04:15 PM.


              Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

              I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

              This is what I'm working on

              Comment


              • #22
                One of the biggest considerations if/when you want to run Scions that are a player character is that they are likely not going to be the "bad guys". *Insert scene from Wreck-It Ralph*

                The Mythos fights with itself just as much as it may fight with other Pantheons. While The Great Old Ones do not love nor care about humanity, they still want to use humanity. Whereas Titans do not consider mortals in their actions, with apathy if you will. Old Ones would but in the most negative way possible. Instead of loving humans, they hate humans. That means there is an emotional connection. Through that connection, they are influenced by humans and humans are influenced by them.

                Comment


                • #23
                  That’s the point. The Old Ones want to fight each other, as each of them is in the way to the others achieve their objectives. That’s the way we could play as demigods.

                  Also there are that one god that is the ultimate hunter, can’t remember his name.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                    Also there are that one god that is the ultimate hunter, can’t remember his name.
                    Is it Nodens maybe?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mordred13 View Post

                      Is it Nodens maybe?
                      Yes! He is a good patron, not the kind that helps you, but the kind that may use you as bait to get a big game. Still one that could have one or two chosen mortals to help him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        And of course the other Shoggoth in the room with the Mythos in a setting with other Gods...

                        Why would anybody worship them?

                        Like, there are other very real Gods out there that don't hate you. Ones that are super powerful, powerful enough to protect humanity from these Things.

                        Despite what D&D says, usually people aren't keen to flock to Gods who go "I'm evil and I'll eat all of you, but if you worship me I may eat you first"


                        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                          And of course the other Shoggoth in the room with the Mythos in a setting with other Gods...

                          Why would anybody worship them?

                          Like, there are other very real Gods out there that don't hate you. Ones that are super powerful, powerful enough to protect humanity from these Things.

                          Despite what D&D says, usually people aren't keen to flock to Gods who go "I'm evil and I'll eat all of you, but if you worship me I may eat you first"
                          From what Chris Spivey's said, the angle they're taking is the Mythos gods are uncaring, not actively hostile. They're not generally out to get you (unless it's Nyarlathotep or Y'golonac, but they're like that).

                          I'm guessing that in this take Mythos worship would be angled more towards finding ways to adapt to a force of nature. Or finding there to be a fairness in that uncaring attitude, everyone receiving equal treatment.


                          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by marin View Post

                            From what Chris Spivey's said, the angle they're taking is the Mythos gods are uncaring, not actively hostile. They're not generally out to get you (unless it's Nyarlathotep or Y'golonac, but they're like that).

                            I'm guessing that in this take Mythos worship would be angled more towards finding ways to adapt to a force of nature. Or finding there to be a fairness in that uncaring attitude, everyone receiving equal treatment.
                            Like I understand if that's how Masks is gonna work, but again, that's why I wouldn't put the Mythos into mainline Scion.

                            Where there are other Gods.

                            Ones who do care.


                            Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Well, we need to take a moment and step back from our out of game Omni-Knowledge. We know that better and brighter gods exist, but many of the humans in The World do not. The gods in modern times don't directly interface with humanity. This forces them to work through their Scions. Scions can't be there for everyone for every reason. This means that the Mythos can easily start influencing normal people because they could exploit their ignorance.

                              Now, I will give that modern humans in The World maybe more on the ball because they have social media and other connections. They may know something funny is going on, but they could write it off as hyperbole or unknown science, etc.


                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bioagent View Post
                                We know that better and brighter gods exist, but many of the humans in The World do not. The gods in modern times don't directly interface with humanity. This forces them to work through their Scions. Scions can't be there for everyone for every reason. This means that the Mythos can easily start influencing normal people because they could exploit their ignorance.
                                ... Uh-

                                There are SWATHS of sections in the Origin book that paint it as the direct opposite. The Gods are very real, and this is very known. Even if someone never sees a Scion, they're very known figures in the World. Gods don't try to hide their existence.

                                Like, yes, Zeus rarely manifests in Full Glory in Scion 2e, but few, if any, doubt that Zeus exists. Because Zeus blesses his Worshippers, Olympus is a known thing among Hellenists (and friends thereof, and people who may have a mild interest in Greek Myth), and Zeus's Scions are very public figures. Like... This is Setting Differences #1 and #2 of the World. The Gods are Real, and People Know This.

                                Most people won't ENCOUNTER a God in their life, but it's like say, the US President or another country's Prime Minister. Most people won't meet them face to face, but nobody's going around saying "Nah, England has a Prime Minister and they're the only head of state in the world. The President of the United States? Hogwash."


                                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X