Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Supernatural Paths? Scions? What's the difference?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Supernatural Paths? Scions? What's the difference?

    I am very excited to start my first game of Scion 2e. The book seems fairly confusing overall, but I'm slowly digesting it and making sense of it. Mostly thanks to reading through these forums!

    Today I have a question about supernatural paths and scions. The book states that "Denizens" (supernatural path people, I suppose) can be Scions, except for Cassandras who can never be Scions (Scion Hero p. 310). It also has a side-bar about how Denizens do not receive Boons for free if they have a relic Birthright with a purview, they must use Marvels instead. This whole section confuses me a little bit. So, can Denizens be Scions and take Purviews like normal? If so, what is the benefit of being a standard Scion? Obviously, you have to use a calling slot on your Supernatural Path, but I'm not sure that's really a disadvantage.

    For example, Wolf Warriors get access to three Callings within Wolf Warrior. (They have a knack that lets them take knacks from other Callings -- Guardian, Leader or Warrior). So if you have a modern day Norse Berserker (Norwegian special forces?), who is favored by Odin ... Why just be the son/daughter of Odin? Am I missing something?

    PS The fact that only Cassandras can't be Scions seems odd.

  • #2
    A Denizen that's also a Scion can use Purviews and gain Boons as normal.

    Also, the Knack to get Guardian etc Knacks is itself an Immortal one, so you're paying 2 slots for each Heroic Knack if you take them (and Heroic Knacks remain useful throughout), so that's really not as versatile as you're making it out to be. Other than that there's really absolutely nothing stopping you from making a Denizen Scion... Your total number of Knacks active is still limited by overall number of Calling dots... Denizens just have a different power set, not a greater one, and are usually balanced out by Persistent Conditions (such as being a dog or having to navigate stairs with horse's hooves). If you have a cool idea for a Denizen Scion, go for it.

    Also, side note, but a Scion of Odin doesn't have to be their child... Non Born Origins exist, thankfully so given how many Pantheons have issues with Divine-Human relations.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Samudra View Post
      A Denizen that's also a Scion can use Purviews and gain Boons as normal.
      Yeah, I think the Relic and Marvel rule might apply to those who are pure Denizens, rather than doubling as a Scion.

      Comment


      • #4
        There is no real advantage on being a regular Scion over a Denizen Scion. Same way, there is no advantage of being a Denizen at all. The knacks they get are on the Calling Knacks counting, so you just get access to a few knacks you can learn, but you don’t really have more knacks than another character with the same legend (knacks are locked on the callings, and callings to legend).

        A Scion is a character rising to godhood due to a relation with a patron deity, Denizen or not, while a regular Denizen will not rise beyond a certain level. The ones described in Hero can all rise at least to Hero level, even if not Scions. The relation with the patron deity is what gives them access to their free purviews and booms, so a Denizen with no patron have no access to it, needing a birthright to gain access to purviews related to it, but still no booms, as they are related to the character and not the birthright.

        Cassandra are cursed by definition, and a Scion can’t be cursed to be a Cassandra, it’s a weird rule, but a rule. A Cassandra that became a Scion would lose all the Cassandra qualities and gain access to Scion qualities, maybe be transformed on a prophet, as they are quite similar. Same way, a Saint would lose all Saint qualities if turned into a Scion, but Saints Are almost a pre-visitstion chosen Scion, that are related to the pantheon for other reasons even before being chosen officially.

        That’s my opinion, not sure if everybody agree...

        Comment


        • #5
          First of all, thank you to all three of you.

          Originally posted by Samudra View Post
          Also, the Knack to get Guardian etc Knacks is itself an Immortal one, so you're paying 2 slots for each Heroic Knack if you take them (and Heroic Knacks remain useful throughout), so that's really not as versatile as you're making it out to be.
          Fair point.

          Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
          A Scion is a character rising to godhood due to a relation with a patron deity, Denizen or not, while a regular Denizen will not rise beyond a certain level. The ones described in Hero can all rise at least to Hero level, even if not Scions. The relation with the patron deity is what gives them access to their free purviews and booms, so a Denizen with no patron have no access to it, needing a birthright to gain access to purviews related to it, but still no booms, as they are related to the character and not the birthright.
          This brings up another question then ... The character creation process in Hero asks that you choose Purviews and Boons (Steps Seven and Eight). So, if a player wishes to make a Denizen without a patron deity, IE a non-Scion denizen, do they just lose out in that case? There's also the matter of Birthrights. If I do not have a divine patron, I probably wouldn't have any Birthrights either. (Though that can be explained away ... You found them, or some such.) The book implies that you can have Denizens without being a Scion or having a divine patron, but doesn't seem to offer rules for that case. Is the default assumption that at Hero level, you must have a divine patron of some type?
          Last edited by Tigerlemur; 06-25-2019, 10:21 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tigerlemur View Post
            I am very excited to start my first game of Scion 2e. The book seems fairly confusing overall, but I'm slowly digesting it and making sense of it. Mostly thanks to reading through these forums!

            Today I have a question about supernatural paths and scions. The book states that "Denizens" (supernatural path people, I suppose) can be Scions, except for Cassandras who can never be Scions (Scion Hero p. 310). It also has a side-bar about how Denizens do not receive Boons for free if they have a relic Birthright with a purview, they must use Marvels instead. This whole section confuses me a little bit. So, can Denizens be Scions and take Purviews like normal? If so, what is the benefit of being a standard Scion? Obviously, you have to use a calling slot on your Supernatural Path, but I'm not sure that's really a disadvantage.

            For example, Wolf Warriors get access to three Callings within Wolf Warrior. (They have a knack that lets them take knacks from other Callings -- Guardian, Leader or Warrior). So if you have a modern day Norse Berserker (Norwegian special forces?), who is favored by Odin ... Why just be the son/daughter of Odin? Am I missing something?

            PS The fact that only Cassandras can't be Scions seems odd.
            Non-Scion Denizens at Legend 1: you have only your single Calling from your Denizen path. You may be able to take Knacks from other Calling lists if that specific Denizen path has that feature, but your slots to do so are limited by your single Calling instead of 3.

            You may either take Birthright points or get an automatic Scale boost in one appropriate field.

            If you take Birthright points you may use a Relic to perform Marvels, but you do not have any innate Purviews like Scions, nor do you get Boons. Just Marvels.

            If you are a Scion Denizen - you get three Callings like other Scions, but one is your Denizen type. Other than the knacks from that, all rules are the same as other Scions.


            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tigerlemur View Post
              First of all, thank you to all three of you.



              Fair point.



              This brings up another question then ... The character creation process in Hero asks that you choose Purviews and Boons (Steps Seven and Eight). So, if a player wishes to make a Denizen without a patron deity, IE a non-Scion denizen, do they just lose out in that case? There's also the matter of Birthrights. If I do not have a divine patron, I probably wouldn't have any Birthrights either. (Though that can be explained away ... You found them, or some such.) The book implies that you can have Denizens without being a Scion or having a divine patron, but doesn't seem to offer rules for that case. Is the default assumption that at Hero level, you must have a divine patron of some type?
              No, but you are not going to be on equal footing with the characters that are literally empowered by a god.

              You get get 4 dots for Birthrights at Hero-level character Creation without a divine patron (unless you take the Scale boost instead). This is discussed on page 171.

              Gods are not the only source of Relics. Look at the dwarves in Norse myth.


              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                No, but you are not going to be on equal footing with the characters that are literally empowered by a god.

                You get get 4 dots for Birthrights at Hero-level character Creation without a divine patron (unless you take the Scale boost instead). This is discussed on page 171.

                Gods are not the only source of Relics. Look at the dwarves in Norse myth.
                Oh wow, thank you for the page number. I completely glossed over that. Good point on Dwarves.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guides can also provide some Purviews, the same way as relics, so you could be a non-scion denizen and have a Purview to do some marvels due to your guide.

                  Notice that Guides can also grant Callings and Legendary titles, what are pretty nice to have if you are not a Scion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Would this mean that at legend 1 a non-scion Denizen would have one point of knack (or 3 if they chose extra knacks) to a scion's 5?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ZipDrive View Post
                      Would this mean that at legend 1 a non-scion Denizen would have one point of knack (or 3 if they chose extra knacks) to a scion's 5?
                      Neall mentioned that a Denizen starts with 3 dots in the Denizen Calling. I'd say that means they start with 3 knacks, 5 if they pick the bonus ones


                      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X