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  • Sources for Mithras

    I have a friend who wants to play a scion of Mithras, but a lot of the sources I see talk about the mechanics of the cult but not about the god himself. Do any of you have some good sources I could send his way?

  • #2
    There is some discussion about the Old Mythras of Persia and the one of Rome as Sol Invictus were not the same but I generally treat them the same. I recommend you get the Yazatas PDF from Drivethrurpg. It covers the Persian Pantheon and it has Mithras. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...e-Persian-Gods


    It is a time for great deeds!

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    • #3
      Bear in mind that Mithra and Mithras, while the same deity in Scion, are very approached very differently by Zoroastrian and Roman worshipers. That said, the version of Mithra in the Scion Companion is heavily based on the Mihr Yasht. It is a bit tough to read, but it gives you a good idea and has some useful sidebars

      http://avesta.org/ka/yt10sbe.htm


      Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn; Scion - Mysteries of the World

      CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
        Bear in mind that Mithra and Mithras, while the same deity in Scion, are very approached very differently by Zoroastrian and Roman worshipers. That said, the version of Mithra in the Scion Companion is heavily based on the Mihr Yasht. It is a bit tough to read, but it gives you a good idea and has some useful sidebars

        http://avesta.org/ka/yt10sbe.htm
        Is that official confirmation the Roman Mithras is a Mantle of Mithra and not a separate Theoi deity?


        Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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        • #5
          Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

          Is that official confirmation the Roman Mithras is a Mantle of Mithra and not a separate Theoi deity?
          Nothing is official if it comes from me. Historians and theologian both say the two deities are the same divine being and another user pointed the OP to a Yazata facing source when dealing with a Roman manifestation of that God.


          Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn; Scion - Mysteries of the World

          CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
            Nothing is official if it comes from me. Historians and theologian both say the two deities are the same divine being and another user pointed the OP to a Yazata facing source when dealing with a Roman manifestation of that God.
            Most of the current academics I was familiar with were of the opinion there was little connection other than the borrowed name, but I look forward to seeing the Companion’s take!


            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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            • #7
              Sources on the Greco-Roman Mithras can’t really say anything about the god himself because all we have is some archaeological evidence related to the cult. So apart from some imagery and related inscriptions, there is nothing much to go on.

              Contrast that with the gods who show up in mythic literature, which gives us the impression of knowing more about them, even if we should be cautious about connecting myth and cult.

              As to his relation to the Zoroastrian Yazata, I’d say they’re two different interpretations of the same Iranian deity. It’s unlikely the Zoroastrians invented Mithra, but they did reinterpret him to fit within their religious framework. I expect the Greco-Roman Mithras worshipers again reinterpreted him to suit their needs, probably not knowing or caring much about orthodox Zoroastrianism.

              In Scion I’d say there’s probably no point positing a separate deity, though it seems not to matter a great deal either way.
              Last edited by Black Flag; 06-29-2019, 12:12 AM.

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              • #8
                I've always suspected that the Roman cult was adapted from the Persian god as part of the trend of importing eastern gods, especially as mystery cults, but got altered to fit its new audience (and perhaps lost/gained something in translation), as this seems to happen frequently in history. But that's just my layman's opinion. In Scion, both ideas may be equally valid, and probably are.

                Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a Roman pantheon of gods like Sol Invictus/Mithras, Roma, the diefied virtues, and the Imperial Genius.


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                  I've always suspected that the Roman cult was adapted from the Persian god as part of the trend of importing eastern gods, especially as mystery cults, but got altered to fit its new audience (and perhaps lost/gained something in translation), as this seems to happen frequently in history. But that's just my layman's opinion. In Scion, both ideas may be equally valid, and probably are.

                  Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a Roman pantheon of gods like Sol Invictus/Mithras, Roma, the diefied virtues, and the Imperial Genius.

                  That's my personal take, I always figured the Mystery Cult of Isis was waaay different then traditional Isis Worship.

                  Hence why I would have them be the same Mithras, like Ares is Mars.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                    Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a Roman pantheon of gods like Sol Invictus/Mithras, Roma, the diefied virtues, and the Imperial Genius.
                    Romans didn’t view their gods as distinct from those of the Greeks. They had some unique local gods, but so did every Greek city. Sol is already present as Helios.

                    The imperial genius is controversial, as it was an unusual cult practice and probably had servile implications (if we accept Ittai Gradel’s work on the subject), whereas direct worship of the emperor, living or dead, was more common. Even so, each paterfamilias had a genius of his own, and it was considered to be mortal along with him. However, deified emperors of old, that’s an interesting prospect in the modern day.

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                    • #11
                      I just think it would make for an entertaining - and somewhat amusing - potential plot hook to have a bunch of gods who identity more as Roman than Greek (or who don't seem to have a Greek counterpart, like Janus) just go "screw you guys; we're going to be over here talking about how totally awesome our Empire was*, so thhhhhppp!" And Circe is morbidly embarrassed that her dad is acting this way in front of everyone.

                      Honestly, between the two cultures, you could do an entire Hero sized source book about just all the gods (nevermind the monsters, relics, guides, followers and terra inconita) and probably not have room for them all. But I would still eagerly buy such a book.

                      *(And still is, if one wants to consider the HRE and EU as some sort of successors to Rome, as one or more self aggrandizing gods might. Which would probably be an interesting plothook in itself.)
                      Last edited by No One of Consequence; 07-03-2019, 12:16 AM.


                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                      • #12
                        I can see Roma having started out as the spirit of the city of Rome, then being promoted to much more than that as Rome became a vast, international concept that people are still trying to claim as the basis of whatever they’re doing. The reality of Rome was impressive, but the legend is so much more.

                        And yeah you could easily have a whole book on what this game files under the banner of the Theoi and still barely scratch the surface. I guess that comes with being from the culture with by far the most mythological literature in history. There’s probably more extant Greco-Roman stuff than most other cultures combined. South Asia is the only real rival in that regard.

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                        • #13
                          I rather wish each parthenon could get its own huge sourcebook, complete with bunches of gods, relics and the like, as well as historical setting ideas, cultural bits and the like, but I realize such a thing is rather unfeasible.


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                            I rather wish each parthenon could get its own huge sourcebook, complete with bunches of gods, relics and the like, as well as historical setting ideas, cultural bits and the like, but I realize such a thing is rather unfeasible.
                            I mean, that's exactly what Watcher and I are doing for our Pantheons, so ... just you wait

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                              I rather wish each parthenon could get its own huge sourcebook, complete with bunches of gods, relics and the like, as well as historical setting ideas, cultural bits and the like, but I realize such a thing is rather unfeasible.
                              As Sacerdos says, my next project which is currently in formatting and will hopefully be up on the Nexus as soon as its up is exactly that for the Túatha Dé! Almost 90k words in total. (Edit: Not 190k! I can't read my own text apparently.)
                              Last edited by Watcher; 07-09-2019, 11:15 PM.


                              Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                              The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire, The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples, The Sgā’na Qeda’s: the Pantheon of the Haida First Nation, The Abosom: The Pantheon of the Ashanti, Lebor Óe In Dea: an Expansion for the Túatha Dé Danann.

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