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Feeling a bit skeptical about Dragon now to be honest

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  • Feeling a bit skeptical about Dragon now to be honest

    https://t.co/djkpFA3ddP
    This interview worries me a bit, I was expecting more a book of Denizen Paths that are in-universe unrelated but are just called dragons for the ease of the reader, but what this interview suggests is something that has very little relation to actual mythology especially the whole gods destroying the world of the dragons. That seems like it was made up in order to justify categorizing all these completely unrelated creatures under the same name. I hope the mechanics are good and I will still buy it, but I personally feel like having two supplements(this and Masks of The Mythos) coming this soon in the line’s lifespan that have little relation to the premise of the main books, well it doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in me. I feel this would be better off as an alternate setting rather then as a part of the main setting.

  • #2
    I have to admit i share the trepidation. There's a lot discussed here that seems like a big departure not only from all the principles established in Origin and Hero as the center of the gameline, but also from the central premise of All Myths Are True and of respectful inspiration and representation of real world beliefs. In terms of game design, it's also odd, because it seems to come with a wave of new terms that are analogue to already existing ones, but very detached. It doesn't sound like these Dragons are very integrated into the framework of Myth and Fate that the base of the game works with, to say nothing of the invented "secret history".

    It sounds a bit more like a setting hack or shard, but while we've heard that Masks of the Mythos is supposed to be that, it's not the impression we've gotten from Dragon so far. If it's the case, that's fine, and it does alleviate the worries the interview gave me; but it also makes me question the willingness of the line's management to divert resources to not one but two major supplements that are divergent takes from the core premise of the game when more central supplements (Bestiary, Companion, Titanomachy?) aren't in sight yet.
    Last edited by YeOfLittleFaith; 07-16-2019, 08:44 PM.

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    • #3
      Yeah, I'm going to add my hat to the Concern pile. If this were it's own separate Gonzo What If Secret History spin-off, then maybe. But if it's assumed that this largely made-up Dragon's World Before is supposed to be in the same line as Scion... Yeah, this leaves an odd taste in my mouth.

      Were this something deliberately not tied to Scion, or hell, even its own project using Storypath but not necessarily a part of the Scion, then hell yes i'd jump at it. It sounds like World of Darkness only I'm actually interested. If this were set in a world very explicitly not our world or the World of Scion, i'd be throwing money at the screen.

      As a part of Scion it feels... Odd, for the reasons mentioned above. Like, this doesn't even fit into pop culture myth.


      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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      • #4
        Also I’m really really really worried about how they’re going to write the American and African “dragons”

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Magicjohnny View Post
          https://t.co/djkpFA3ddP
          This interview worries me a bit, I was expecting more a book of Denizen Paths that are in-universe unrelated but are just called dragons for the ease of the reader, but what this interview suggests is something that has very little relation to actual mythology especially the whole gods destroying the world of the dragons. That seems like it was made up in order to justify categorizing all these completely unrelated creatures under the same name. I hope the mechanics are good and I will still buy it, but I personally feel like having two supplements(this and Masks of The Mythos) coming this soon in the line’s lifespan that have little relation to the premise of the main books, well it doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in me. I feel this would be better off as an alternate setting rather then as a part of the main setting.
          Masks at least is definitely self contained and other books won’t assume the Mythos are running around in the World - also it’s developer is the most qualified person imaginable to deal with the racism inseparable from the source material, so i’m feeling pretty ok about that book.

          Dragon is worrying, but I certainly hope to be pleasantly surprised.
          Last edited by glamourweaver; 07-16-2019, 11:19 PM.


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          • #6
            Well, looks like I'm going to be dusting off The Book of the Dragon for inspiration on story hooks.

            Maybe it's because my introduction to Dragons comes from a variety of other role playing games, but I personally don't see an issue with the idea of the Dragons being the original rulers of The World. Most settings I'm familiar with have gone by the idea that Dragons are one of the oldest sentient races in the world. And they once ruled an all encompassing empire, before suffering a fall from grace of some kind.

            So in that respect, it seems to me like Scion is just exploring that idea in greater detail, rather than making it up from scratch.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
              Well, looks like I'm going to be dusting off The Book of the Dragon for inspiration on story hooks.

              Maybe it's because my introduction to Dragons comes from a variety of other role playing games, but I personally don't see an issue with the idea of the Dragons being the original rulers of The World. Most settings I'm familiar with have gone by the idea that Dragons are one of the oldest sentient races in the world. And they once ruled an all encompassing empire, before suffering a fall from grace of some kind.

              So in that respect, it seems to me like Scion is just exploring that idea in greater detail, rather than making it up from scratch.
              'Most settings'

              I mean I assume 'Actual Myth' isn't a common source for you. That story beat is pretty absent in a lot of classic myth no matter the culture


              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

                'Most settings'

                I mean I assume 'Actual Myth' isn't a common source for you. That story beat is pretty absent in a lot of classic myth no matter the culture

                Well, "actual myth" regarding dragons is pretty much a crap chute of what does and doesn't meet the qualifications. Apparently, medieval knights were presenting alligators to the king, claiming they captured a dragon. Other people attribute the existence of dinosaur fossils as being evidence of dragons.

                Which admittedly, being the Heir of a dinosaur is probably the most metal character you can come up with.

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                • #9
                  That’s because dragon is in real life a largely useless word that can be applied to pretty much anything you feel like, as no one has ever been able to pinpoint a good definition for the sake of anthropology

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Magicjohnny View Post
                    Magicjohnny, I cannot go to the shortened link. ( Maybe cause I'm in Poland, I dunno. ) Could you please make direct link to the interview? Or at least title and portal on what it is?


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                    • #11
                      This is hard to work with German folklore, which largely treats dragons as animalistic monsters. But we will see...


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                        Magicjohnny, I cannot go to the shortened link. ( Maybe cause I'm in Poland, I dunno. ) Could you please make direct link to the interview? Or at least title and portal on what it is?
                        Try this link, it may work


                        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                        • #13
                          I share the concerns of the other posters in this thread. Also, I really enjoyed the idea of being able to play/run a game with both Scion and Dragon PCs (assuming the players were interested in both); the interview makes it clear that while this is technically possible, it really isn't recommended. Oh well...

                          That said, I still have every intention of getting Dragon; I love dragons, and I'm sure I can find a way to use the parts of the book that I like while leaving out (or minimizing the influence of) the parts that I don't like. And who knows? Maybe this will succeed where Fireborn didn't

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sheeted Kid View Post

                            That said, I still have every intention of getting Dragon; I love dragons, and I'm sure I can find a way to use the parts of the book that I like while leaving out (or minimizing the influence of) the parts that I don't like. And who knows? Maybe this will succeed where Fireborn didn't
                            I kind of like the idea of playing the neutral faction, who's manipulating both sides of the war for their own benefit. I don't see a lot of games like that, unless the players specifically try to orchestrate it that way.

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                            • #15
                              Masks and Dragon really seem like Onyx Path trying to make the most out of the game license they bought. It is their modern fantasy brand that they own, and I think even Dragons is supposed to be a kind of 'Shard', where they are just taking this existing Core System, without having to include two+ redundant chapters, and reference existing Purviews etc.

                              Trying to bring the "Continuum" approach from Trinity over to Scion. There they can have any kind of sci-fi setting (as long as they can think of an A name).
                              Last edited by MoroseMorgan; 07-17-2019, 12:16 PM.


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