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  • #16
    As amusing an image as that is, Wannabe, I would be remiss if I didn't point out one small problem.

    Kali is married to Shiva, very happily, and for the Deva marital fidelity is extremely important. Like, cosmically important.

    Her going on a crazy road trip with her gal pals is definitely something that I can see happening.
    Last edited by Kyman201; 02-06-2020, 09:58 PM.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #17
      Very well. I apologize.

      This is something that came up when I and a couple of my potential players were brainstorming strong relationships, particularly but not exclusively romantic ones, that would inevitably occur between divinities of distinct pantheons in a world where they all coexisted. The idea of Kali and Sekhmet being a pair was immediately appealing, but that was probably from a place of ignorance and I hadn't honestly thought about where Shiva would fit in with all of this. I also took inspiration from the fact that Kali had produced a born scion with a woman in 1e, but at this point, it's frighteningly obvious that that's just yet another problematic 1e thing and likely wouldn't happen in 2e which goes out of its way to be more accurate and respectful to the source material. And there honestly is, as has been pointed out, a dearth of wlw goddesses in global mythology as a whole, so I was kind of grasping at straws in that regard. Again, I apologize, especially given the fact that we do have a devotee of Kali on the boards.

      So would this mean that born scions, in general, would not be a thing for the vast majority of the Deva, given that most of them do seem to be hitched to each other? Samudra, do you have any thoughts in that regard?

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      • #18
        Wannabe Demon Lord Can you tell I hated Supernatural's portrayal of Kali even more than Temple of Doom's for precisely this reason?

        That said, the rest of your idea is amazing, so go for it

        Born Scions are possible for the Deva with a few caveats:

        Firstly, it does happen once in Myth, with the Pandava brothers, but in this case the situation is literally forced with magic since Kunti knows a spell that forces Gods to turn up and give her a kid. A lot of debate goes on about whether the Pandava were the result of sex though... Karna being born in a day and Kunti remaining a virgin after that are given as proofs that likely these were not Born but Created... on that note, Created Scions are great for the Deva because they carry all the legal rights and duties of a Born child and none of the problems... look at Ganesha, who was Created by Parvati but is considered Shiva's son as well.

        Secondly, if the other partner is a human Incarnation of their Godly spouse, that's not cheating. Shiva has children with the mortal woman Taravati and this is fine because Taravati is an Avatar of Parvati.

        Thirdly, there are unmarried Deva... Ganga the Goddess of the Ganges River has no husband (or no consistent one anyway) and marries and has children with a mortal. All the Gods in the core book are already hitched though (minus Durga, who is the Eternal Unmarried Virgin and isn't likely to have Born Scions ever for this reason).

        In general though, yeah, Born Scions aren't much of a thing for the Deva... Marital Fidelity is so important to them villains have had Death Clauses based on it... after Shiva's first wife Sati died the Asura Taraka decided to ask for the Boon that he only be killed by the born child of Shiva, and became functionally immortal since Shiva wasn't going to have any children with anyone else... until Sati reincarnated as Parvati, at least.

        However! I feel you on the lack of W|W pairings, and I think I can help!

        All male Deva have female Mantles... Brahma has Brahmani, Vishnu has Vaishnavi, Shiva has Shivani/Maheshvari... so if you want your W|W relationships, they're right there

        Fun fact, in the Devi Bhagvatam Purana, the Trimurti go to visit Durga for guidance... and immediately take on their Feminine Mantles in her presence due to her being the Overwhelming Embodiment of Femininity. Durga then explains their purpose, and splits off Sarasvati Lakshmi and Kali from herself to marry them to the Trimurti... while they are still female. Which means that the Trimurti and Tridevi have totally all had Lesbian Weddings! Go wild with this. Have Shivani turn up on these excursions with her Wife Kali... two Destroyers can only increase the Fun after all

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        • #19
          Kali: Buckle up, cuties! We're picking up a REAL party girl! Everyone? Meet Shivani, my wife.

          Shivani: Hey we going on a road trip?

          Kali: You know it! Hop in, babe!

          Shivani: WOO! Scoot over, Lion Gal!

          Sekhmet: Ha, you're all right.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • #20
            Slight off-topic:
            Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
            I also took inspiration from the fact that Kali had produced a born scion with a woman in 1e, but at this point, it's frighteningly obvious that that's just yet another problematic 1e thing and likely wouldn't happen in 2e which goes out of its way to be more accurate and respectful to the source material.
            But could not in 2E this particular Scion of Kali be simply Chosen by her? Gods do not now to sire off-spring to have humans as Scions of them, right?


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            • #21
              That is an absolutely perfect solution! One destroyer good, two destroyers better. Yesss. Thank you for bearing with me and educating me in regard to the matter. I will definitely be having Created scions be the norm for Deva scions in my campaign, most of my potential players seem to be interested in Born scions primarily, given that I sold the game to them as being like Rick Riordan: The RPG but with all the pantheons openly interacting.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
                That is an absolutely perfect solution! One destroyer good, two destroyers better. Yesss. Thank you for bearing with me and educating me in regard to the matter. I will definitely be having Created scions be the norm for Deva scions in my campaign, most of my potential players seem to be interested in Born scions primarily, given that I sold the game to them as being like Rick Riordan: The RPG but with all the pantheons openly interacting.
                Now keep in mind, you can have some... ADJUSTMENTS.

                As Samudra noted, a Born Scion is fine if it's a child with both married parents. So if you want to have a Born Scion of Kali, that's possible if the other parent is Shiva. See the example that Samudra cited, where Shiva the God has children with the 'mortal' Taravati.So if Kali has a child with a woman and that woman is revealed to be Shiva in the aspect of Shivani reborn as a mortal woman, that's not cheating.

                In such a case, I'd have the player pick a parent to 'take after' (their Patron, inheriting a Calling and a Purview from them) and take the other parent as a Guide for when they reveal their true nature. So our hypothetical Kali Scion here would inherit a Calling and Purview from Kali, and could have Shiva as a Guide.

                Or if your player likes the idea of going Max Weirdness, Created is a great option. Have Kali form a random child from the Boundless Chaos of the Before Time and then drop the kid off with a mortal parent.


                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Slight off-topic:


                  But could not in 2E this particular Scion of Kali be simply Chosen by her? Gods do not now to sire off-spring to have humans as Scions of them, right?
                  Indeed they could this is one of my favourite changes in 2e. This particular Scion character was not one I liked because she was very... One note, a frenzied out of control warrior and pretty much nothing else, very boring.

                  If she was re introduced for 2e I'd probably do her differently... The 1e version was supposedly in a band (the musical type, rather than a Band of Scions, though she was in that too) but that aspect was only there to add in the Kali stereotypes (it was of course a death metal band)... My preference for her in 2e would be to focus on this part more as a genuine part of her character and make her a Scion of Sarasvati, and tone down her blood knight tendencies, while keeping her a mighty Warrior.

                  (She technically *is* in the book, she's Annie X in the fiction for the Yoga Purview, but we don't know anything about her beyond the fact that she can supposedly dance)
                  Last edited by Samudra; 02-07-2020, 05:09 AM.

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