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[2e] Equipment/Relics and Combat

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  • [2e] Equipment/Relics and Combat

    So going through the Origin and Hero books, some questions come to mind.

    Building Equipment:
    1.) Is the Sample Armor of "Chainmail Shirt" incorrect as it has 5 points in tags? Or are there some tags that don't inherently count against point totals?

    2.) When building armor, can the Soft/Hard tags be used more than once (if appropriately balanced point wise)? For example, can I apply the Soft (1) tag twice to have Soft (2) total, or can the Soft/Hard tags only be applied once?

    Enhancements in Combat:
    3.) Please make sure I'm reading everything right for the Order of Operation of calculating Enhancements. First Roll your Skill + Attribute, and calculate the number of successes. If you have more successes than your target's defense, you have successfully hit. At this point, you may then add any Enhancements provided by your Weapon Tags or Relic bonuses. That will now give you your total Pool for stunts, which you then spend appropriately. Is this correct?

    3a.) If my target has a defense of two (2) and I roll three (3) successes, that is a hit. But do I then subtract the target's defense from my success total before adding my Enhancements, or do I still have those original successes in my total? For example, I successfully hit (as above) with the sample Sword. (for the purposes of tags) When spending successes for Stunts, do I now have a total of two (2) successes (Rolled Successes (3) - Target Defense (2) + Melee Tag (1)) or do I have a total of four (4) successes (Rolled Successes (3) + Melee Tag (1)) to use?

    4.) With the Tag of "Versatile" for Weapons, does the +1 Enhancement only come into play when performing a Stunt out of combat, or does it apply to Close Combat Stunts such as Blinding, Disarm, Feint, Knockdown/Trip, Shove, or Sunder?

    5.) So Defense is defined as Standard Defense (1) + Successes from Defense Roll. (ie. If I have a Defense Roll of four (4), and gain two (2) successes from that, I now have a defense of three (3) for general purposes). If I have a Relic that is a weapon and gives me a +1 General Enhancement, can I also add that +1 General Enhancement to my defense total? For example, if I have a Relic Sword and I am defending against a Close Combat attack, can I add my +1 Enhancement in this case? Is there consideration for that +1 General Enhancement to be for all defense?

  • #2
    To answer 3: You add Enhancements before comparing successes to your target's Defence. If you have ANY successes on the dice, you get your Enhancements. Then you subtract the opponent's Defence. So in your a) example, you would have 2 successes to buy Stunts with.

    Comment


    • #3
      The general rule for rolling dice is:

      - Pick the dice pool
      - Roll
      - Count the successes:
      * If no successes Fail
      * * If fail and have at least a 1 on one of the dice Botch
      * If 1 or more successes continue
      - Add Successes + Enhancements Difficulty (Defence for example)
      * If result is negative Fail, if result is 0 or larger continue
      - Use the extra successes to buy stunts (for example cause Injury).

      If you got no successes you can only do 0 Successes Stunts, like Cause Injury to a target with no Soft Armor.

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay, that all makes sense for #3 and #3a, Mike McCall and Mateus Luz. So to cap that off, it would look like this:
        1.) Roll Dice Pool and Count Successes
        2a.) If zero (0) successes, you fail. If there is at least a single one (1) on the dice, then the fail becomes a botch. End here.
        2b.) If one (1) or more successes, then you add all Enhancements to have your Total Successes.
        3.) Subtract the Target's Defense from your Total Successes, to get your Net Successes
        4a.) If less than zero (0) Net Successes, you fail. End here.
        4b.) If zero (0) or more Net Successes, you succeed, and can now use your Net Successes to "purchase" Stunts. Normally, even with zero (0) successes, you can use the "Inflict Damage" stunt unless the target has something like Soft Armor, which raises the successes needed for that Stunt.

        Now I have it all aligned in my head. Thank you. Any thoughts, feedback on the other questions?

        Comment


        • #5
          My opinion on the questions:

          1) That’s ok, 3 tags is a good reference but not obligatory. You can put Weighty and Cumbersome tags if you think it’s better to balance.

          2) Hard armor have 2 options, 1 (for 1 extra condition box) or 3 (for 2 condition boxes), that’s it. Soft is a bit trick, I would say yes as in the examples they show Soft (1), if it was a fixed they would show only Soft as with other fixed price tags.

          4) Any stunt, it includes Cause Injury.

          5) Tricky question. I honestly would go for a No, unless you are using the relic to defend yourself. The General Enhancement should be only for actions that you use the relic to accomplish, not for ALL your rolls. For example, if you pick your relic sword and want to use it to impress or intimidate, you gain a enhancement, if you use it to attack too (obvious), but you are not going to be a better chess player for hold it while play. The sword of the example is tricky because you CAN use it to defend, but if you do, you would reduce the successes you have to attack (at least) or even be incapable of attacking that round.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mateus Luz:
            For #4, that is where it gets confusing. Per the book, it says:
            "Versatile (2): The weapon is useful outside of simply causing harm. Add +1 Enhancement when using the weapon to perform any Stunts."

            I get that "Inflict Damage" is a Close Combat stunt, but from the context of the description it looks saying that a +1 is available outside of the "Inflict Damage" Stunt. Then on the other side, though, is that the "Melee" tag already gives +1 for Close Combat:
            "Melee (0): This weapon can only be used at close range. It must be used with the Close Combat Skill, and adds +1 Enhancement to Close Combat rolls."

            It just seems very OP to have the sample Sword essentially give you +2 enhancements right out of the gate for Close Combat between the Melee and Versatile tag. And contextually it seems like Versatile is trying to indicate it can be used for Stunts outside of combat... but it also does not specify otherwise. That's where my confusion lies, and I'm concerned that there might be some subtext not identified properly as to which Stunts that Enhancement would go for.

            Especially since if we assume it works with all Stunts, and based on how it's written, you get +1 Enhancement to every Stunt you use the weapon for... which would be everything you do within Close Combat including "Critical". It would make things like Inflict Damage, Critical, Disarm, Shove, and Sunder either easier or inherently more powerful. Just seems like a bit much given it's a two (2) point tag.

            Comment


            • #7
              I got your confusion, but there is nothing saying that it’s not on all the rolls. Also it costs 2 points, so it is a little OP, but the cost is enough to not be on any weapon you create.

              Comment


              • #8
                I always took the versatile tag to mean you can (for example) use a staff to do a jump or a dagger to lockpick a lock.(i may have misunderstood what the tag is for)


                Currently running: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 2year old daughter and a newborn son.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
                  I always took the versatile tag to mean you can (for example) use a staff to do a jump or a dagger to lockpick a lock.(i may have misunderstood what the tag is for)
                  You may have understood and we didn’t. It actually make sense the way you put.

                  But then, why the Sword have the tag? I think it can be used for any situation that make sense...
                  Last edited by Mateus Luz; 07-28-2019, 09:07 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is what I was thinking as well Maitrecorbo, but it's just strange that the Tag description doesn't have something explicate such as:
                    "Versatile (2): The weapon is useful outside of simply causing harm. Add +1 Enhancement when using the weapon to perform any appropriate non-Combat or non-Defensive Stunts."

                    I was looking for clarification, because that's how I read it, but wanted to make sure I wasn't over thinking it and the intention was more extensive. Because when I think of a versatile weapon, I think of one that is easy to use and therefore can assist in stunts like a Sunder or a Disarm. I think it could be reasonable to treat it as:
                    "Versatile (2): The weapon is useful outside of simply causing harm. Once per round, add +1 Enhancement when using the weapon to perform any appropriate Stunt that does not damage the target."

                    Then it would be able to handle non-Damage stunts in combat, and also any appropriate stunt outside of combat. Also, adding in a "Once per round" limits it's use so the Enhancement isn't crazy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I’d say that Versatile is not suppose to count in combat so it doesn’t count for attacks but for situations Maitrecorbo mentioned. In case of a sword there are still many non-combat uses, some swords are made to assist in many things beside fighting like the Indian Dao sword which is used as a general tool. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dao_(Naga_sword)

                      So if simulating Dao in Scion the Versatile Tag works wonderfully.

                      Edit:
                      But that is only my personal interpretation of RAI and may be incorrect. RAW seems to give it to all Stunts so it would also apply to any combat stunts like Inflict Damage, which it does not mention not applying to.
                      Last edited by Possessed; 07-29-2019, 09:16 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok, but it can be use to disarm and parry better than the heavy weapons, so I guess it can be used to do some of the combat stunts too, or even add to the defence.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Had to go through all the tags again, since only Grappling has its own Tag one could perhaps assume RAI of Versatile to be that it applies to general combat stunts outside of Inflict Damage and Grappling Stunts which have their own Tags to enhance them. I would also assume that the RAI would apply to out of combat Stunts like Maitrecorbo and I assumed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Scion being a game of divine power, I guess it can work on any stunt you can basically say it can, combat or not.

                            I want to intimidate with my sword, I want to disarm, I want to open a lock, I want to make a perfect martini. Its ALL on the reach of the sword, as long it makes sense... (so no perfect martini for you)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                              I’d say that Versatile is not suppose to count in combat so it doesn’t count for attacks but for situations Maitrecorbo mentioned. In case of a sword there are still many non-combat uses, some swords are made to assist in many things beside fighting like the Indian Dao sword which is used as a general tool. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dao_(Naga_sword)

                              So if simulating Dao in Scion the Versatile Tag works wonderfully.

                              Edit:
                              But that is only my personal interpretation of RAI and may be incorrect. RAW seems to give it to all Stunts so it would also apply to any combat stunts like Inflict Damage, which it does not mention not applying to.
                              Sorry if this sounds silly but what is RAW and RAI?

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