Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Gods without Pantheons

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Gods without Pantheons

    So while reading origen i came across 2 names that really caught my eye in the new york city section, Mammon and Columbia. Mammon is one of the seven princes of hell, so you MIGHT be able to make him an Abrahamic Titan, but that just means Wall Street is a Titanic Cult, (unless you say the Seven Princes of Hell are just regular deities) Columbia meanwhile is one of the 2 personifications of the USA, the other being Uncle Sam, and as such wouldn't really have a proper pantheon. I actually really like the idea of there being a few oddball. maybe you could through other "Not Really Deities" in there like Baphomet in there. THe only real issue is the whole Virtues thing, as a lack of a Pantheon would mean no virtues at all.

  • #2
    I think that Columbia is gonna get a more detailed writeup in the Companion. That may be a thing where they talk about Gods with no Pantheons.

    Also, I'd be very surprised if Uncle Sam was written up as a God again in 2e. Like, ever.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
      I think that Columbia is gonna get a more detailed writeup in the Companion. That may be a thing where they talk about Gods with no Pantheons.
      Does not Columbia in 2E is previous Scion of Athena that become independent diety in American Revolution? I recall something like this in Scion 2E Origin book....


      My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
      LGBT+ in CoD games

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

        Does not Columbia in 2E is previous Scion of Athena that become independent diety in American Revolution? I recall something like this in Scion 2E Origin book....
        Yes, the part that Penguin mentioned about Columbia being namedropped.

        But Columbia is also getting another writeup that one could use for, say, making a Scion of Columbia, in the Companion book.

        A kind of... More Detailed Writeup.


        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          As far as Mammon goes, my layman's understanding is that the name derives from a Hebrew word referring to material wealth, and this is the context Jesus uses it in the New Testament. It's not until the Middle Ages that it started being used as a name for the personification of greed, and I think Spencer's The Faerie Queene is the first time Mammon is presented as a god of wealth. Milton's Paradise Lost also uses it as a fallen angel.

          While there was some speculation that it may have been some sort of Syrian diety of wealth, there does not appear to be any evidence that this is true.

          However, in Scion, it is entirely possible that Mammon was some sort of aspect (or scion) of Hades/Pluto that became a god in its own right. Such a god need not be "evil" - though it may very well have one of the Titan virtues - but could be the overall spirit of modern materialism in general, both for good and ill.

          With Columbia, I could easily see a lot of countries developing a patron deity/divine incarnation in the 19th and 20th centuries. Britannia, Marianne, Rodina, Katrin, Bharat Mata, etc. Some of these could have originated with or be associated with an existing pantheon - Katrin with the Loa - but others could be stand alones. I think it depends on how much real world politics you want to include in your game.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

          Comment


          • #6
            Regarding the idea of Mammon as a modern (relatively speaking, say starting as a Hero in the late Middle Ages or early Renaissance period, likely a scion of Pluto/Hades) god of materialism (money, affluence, consumerism, business, capitalism), I'm wondering what other personifications might also be modern deities attached to one or more of the existing pantheons. Maybe Liberty, Father Time, Lady Luck, Mother Nature, Jack Frost/Old Man Winter, John Q. Public, and the like.


            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
              Regarding the idea of Mammon as a modern (relatively speaking, say starting as a Hero in the late Middle Ages or early Renaissance period, likely a scion of Pluto/Hades) god of materialism (money, affluence, consumerism, business, capitalism), I'm wondering what other personifications might also be modern deities attached to one or more of the existing pantheons. Maybe Liberty, Father Time, Lady Luck, Mother Nature, Jack Frost/Old Man Winter, John Q. Public, and the like.
              I figure if these figures exist, not all of them are necessarily Gods, with or without a Pantheon.


              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

                I figure if these figures exist, not all of them are necessarily Gods, with or without a Pantheon.
                Well, my thinking is that, over the centuries, all the pantheons have - in theory at least - had various Heroes rise to Demigod and God status, resulting in possible patrons (or allies, rivals, enemies, Guides, etc.) that aren't part of the textbook mythology, but some of those may be part of general folklore or pop culture or even historical figures. Mammon as a member of the Theoi, General Winter as part of the Rus, High John the Conquer among the Loa, Oscar Wilde as an Irish demigod, etc.


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, again, not every figure needs to be a God. Assuming that Only Gods Are Important is what leads to Robin Hood, The Citizen, and Uncle Sam being Gods in the National Pantheons.

                  Robin Hood is a Hero at best. There's room for Folk Heroes and Other Mythic Figures in Scion, definitely, but not every meme or local tale needs to be a God.


                  Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hmm. Good point. I think to a slight degree, I'm still in a 1st ed mindset of Demigod and God being just a scaling increase and not the major shift in concept/world view that 2nd ed seems to be aiming for.

                    Of the various examples I mention, I admit that I really like the idea of Mammon being a Scion of Hades who actually made it to Demigod status in the late medieval or early Renaissance period, and maybe full God level by the 19th century.

                    Mother Nature I could see as an alias/aspect of Demeter, Mezzu-Kumik-Quae, and others, depending on circumstances. Likewise Lady Luck being an aspect or title of Lakshmi and Fortuna/Tyche (perhaps one they gamble for possession of every so often).

                    Someone like Robin Hood would definitely be a Hero. Though it'd be interesting to have it as some sort of mantel or incarnation a modern Hero PC could inherit. (Maybe tied to the Welsh pantheon.)

                    I'd enjoy seeing a collection of historical personages like Wilde presented as Hero characters, the sort of people PCs can meet and interact with, either in historical games or some other context.

                    From what little I know about the new process of transcending to Demigod status, I'm curious to find out what are the potential outcomes of failing to achieve divinity or actually achieving it and losing one's self in the process. I mention the conceptual idea of John Q. Public, and I'm pondering the possibility of some Hero of the common man who wants to try to become their patron god only to totally lose all sense of self and become this nameless faceless everyman. I'm not sure if this would be a successful ascension to Demigod status or a tragic failure. So I'm really eager to see Demigod when it finally comes out.



                    What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                    Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would hesitate to try and take some general concepts and try to make them stick to existing Gods just because they may have some superficial similarities between them. Mother Nature and Demeter don't have a lot in common beyond being represented as women and being somewhat tied to plant life and nature. Try to avoid the Victorian tendency to squint, draw tenuous lines of connection, and go "Yep, basically the same". Goodness knows that shit has happened enough to actual Religions in our world's history.

                      Also, insisting that every vaguely influential figure in history was actually a Scion can be its own potential can of worms. Be a bit careful with that.


                      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                        Yeah, again, not every figure needs to be a God. Assuming that Only Gods Are Important is what leads to Robin Hood, The Citizen, and Uncle Sam being Gods in the National Pantheons.
                        Not to mention Harriet Tubman and Adolf Hitler being demigods in Rick Riordan's book series.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                          Not to mention Harriet Tubman and Adolf Hitler being demigods in Rick Riordan's book series.
                          Although my understanding is that what Scion classifies as Demigod is different than the way Riordan uses it (in the literal sense of half-god "offspring of god and mortal").

                          But yeah, Harriet Tubman is on my list of historical people who would make cool Heroes, as are a number of others Riordan has name dropped in his books.


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't get me wrong, Harriet Tubman was genuinely inspirational and all, but the point Kyman201 is making is that mortals can do cool shit, too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've suggested Mother Goose as a goddess before. Both Merlin and Morgan le Fay were said to be worshipped as gods in more than one Medieval text. I don't take that as history, but it sounds like they could be appropriate figures to be gods, with or without pantheons, in this setting.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X